Horse bolting when led

Chianti said:
How food orientated is he? You could try a bum bag full of treats and start feeding them before you get to the muddy bit. If it's learnt behaviour - rather than pain or fear of the mud - he might focus on those. It would build up a positive association with the track/mud.
Click to expand...
Thank you, have tried this to no avail unfortunately 😞
 
Have you tried long reining him over the mud. Get someone to help at the side of him. Keep doing it and around the field and back out again. Do this as many times as it takes. Then gradually down to two of you each side leading him around the field and back out. Until he has confidence again.
 
Kaylum said:
Have you tried long reining him over the mud. Get someone to help at the side of him. Keep doing it and around the field and back out again. Do this as many times as it takes. Then gradually down to two of you each side leading him around the field and back out. Until he has confidence again.
Click to expand...
Thank you! It's certainly one worth trying. I've not long reined him at all yet and slightly concerned I might end up mud skiing, but might try the long lines on him this weekend and see what he thinks!
 
I fell over in the mud yesterday, ATM its like glue, and watching two under 14.2's pick their way through it to get on to harder ground morning and evening, one goes as close to the fence as possible, to the point of all most taking out the electric fence.
I am older and mainly on my own so I would work around the problem rather than risk the possibility of being dragged over. I would make a fence box past the gate, and a fence gate before the mud on the track, walk in the first gate, make him stand and wait while you are both on solid ground, them let him off, he can not get in the field until you unhook the bottom gate, where he has to stand and wait.
When I have larger young stock I have a run out the field, so they never get a chance to learn they are stronger than you, and rest of the time you are always fully in control in an enclosed space, even if if you need with a bridle two lunge lines and gloves.
 
Billy Pig said:
After some advice please... I know this topic has been done to death, but I'm at a loose end and the usual advice isn't helping. Sorry in advance for the long post.

I have bought a cob who I've had about a month now, who has started bolting every time I turn him out and sometimes when he's bought in.

It is a difficult situation in that his trigger is deep mud on the track on the way to the field. He is absolutely golden to handle and has manners to burn in the usual everyday situations. Responds very well to all groundwork and is honestly an absolute gem.

He has an anxious streak where his default is to run, and I imagine this is what happened the first time he got away from me, but I now think this is a learnt behavior.

Every morning when I turn him out, he plants just before the mud, which is deep and they all sink in it. He clearly doesn't like it, I have to gently coax him through, he takes a couple of slow steps through it, but then with no warning goes from stand to canter and takes off up to the end of the track. He let's me walk up and catch him straight away, I don't tell him off, I just pick up his rope and carry on to his field.

He also bolts into the field once we get to the gateway, which annoys me, because it isn't muddy! So all in all, I lose him twice every morning.

I'm struggling to stop him, one, because he has generally planted and isnt moving to begin with, so I'm doing a bit of pressure release to get him through the first bit of the track. Two, he will suddenly just got from standing to canter with no warning, locks his neck and goes which pulls the rope through my hands every time. I'm struggling to have pressure on him, or turn his head towards me because he's not walking in the first place so I can't have hold of a stationary horse that I'm trying to keep walking.

Does anyone have any advice? He hasn't responded to pressure halter, rope round nose, head in feed bucket etc. I can't have him continue to do this as it means I'll be unable to leave him in anyone else's care should I need to.
Click to expand...
We have a livery cob 2 years old who does than, never had a bit in it's mouth yet. This is what they bought to lead it https://www.lemieux.com/horsewear/headcollars-leadropes/prosafe-headcollar-black-22178
 
honetpot said:
I fell over in the mud yesterday, ATM its like glue, and watching two under 14.2's pick their way through it to get on to harder ground morning and evening, one goes as close to the fence as possible, to the point of all most taking out the electric fence.
I am older and mainly on my own so I would work around the problem rather than risk the possibility of being dragged over. I would make a fence box past the gate, and a fence gate before the mud on the track, walk in the first gate, make him stand and wait while you are both on solid ground, them let him off, he can not get in the field until you unhook the bottom gate, where he has to stand and wait.
When I have larger young stock I have a run out the field, so they never get a chance to learn they are stronger than you, and rest of the time you are always fully in control in an enclosed space, even if if you need with a bridle two lunge lines and gloves.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your suggestion. This is something I'd like to explore but unfortunately just not feasible due to being on livery and many other people having to use the track. Yard manager just wouldn't go for it unfortunately.
 
Billy Pig said:
How did you end up resolving?
Click to expand...
A very long thin rope looped and threaded through the headcollar bottom ring and the loop put in his mouth, then when we got to the field allowed him to spit it out and the rope slid through the headcollar ring. It was the only thing he would respect and it worked for us.
 
How much work have you done in a rope halter? It takes a fair bit of training to get them to understand it.

I had a thug of a horse who had learnt similar tricks. He got a very nasty shock the first time I had the le mieux chain control headcollar on him and he got the biggest yank on it possible as he beggered off
 
suestowford said:
Have you tried one of those white rope halters? This sort, I mean. I had a horse who used to bomb off while I was leading him, I tried many things but this was the one that worked. Mine has a long rope as it was made for heavy horses, I knotted the very end of the rope so it was easier to hold on if he took off. I remember the first time he had it on, we had to cross a boggy field and he took off. I hung on to the rope, and when the halter tightened he just stopped dead. He was so surprised, as was I! Honestly never had trouble leading him again, as long as he had this on.
I think this plastic model is wearing his upside down though :)

View attachment 155826
Click to expand...
We always use those. I've never lost a horse I was leading in one in 50 yrs. I find that if they don't stop dead, they just go round you, as if lunging.

I think you are right, the knot looks to be in the wrong place.
 
Don't be dismissive of his fear. If he's otherwise a gentleman, I wouldnt be looking at this as naughtiness. You say he comes from Ireland - remember that in Ireland, and other places, horses can come to grief in bogs and marshes. You don;t know whether he has had or seen some such experience.
I'm assuming he's young? and not ridden yet? - you certainly don't want this to still be an issue when you are sitting on him. - one patch of mud and he'll be off!!
As he's good with groundwork, I would introduce exercises that are all about putting his feet on or in weird things, walking over different surfaces, through water etc.
You will be teaching him that while he is with you he can safely explore these surfaces, and he can trust you as his leader that you know what is safe for him to step on.
Listen to him, be patient and always reward the try. Some horses are just anxious about where they put their feet, but it's survival instinct.

You have not had him long, so he does not yet know how good and reliable you are as his leader.
In the wild, natural horse behaviour is to follow behind the leader. I have seen this is seriously treacherous places in Iceland where it is literally life and death if you step in the wrong place, but the whole herd will follow absolutely in the footsteps of the herd leader because they trust that the leader knows the way through.
 
I know they get mixed opinions and I myself have mixed opinions but I use a chifney with one of ours sometimes. They've got very used to just being let out and running to the field in the morning (we keep them at home) and I've been trying to teach her to turn out properly.

The benefits of the chifney are that it doesn't need much - just one attempt at running away and she learns pretty fast. Also if she does get away she won't trip on her reins or break it because it's just like her running off with a headcollar on really.

The downsides are I don't know how I feel about essentially using pain to fight back. I know it's dangerous for her to behave that way especially if she ever has to go back into livery but I feel awful every time. I only mention it because you weren't sure about using a bridle as you didn't want him getting his foot caught in the reins.
 
ponynutz said:
I know they get mixed opinions and I myself have mixed opinions but I use a chifney with one of ours sometimes. They've got very used to just being let out and running to the field in the morning (we keep them at home) and I've been trying to teach her to turn out properly.

The benefits of the chifney are that it doesn't need much - just one attempt at running away and she learns pretty fast. Also if she does get away she won't trip on her reins or break it because it's just like her running off with a headcollar on really.

The downsides are I don't know how I feel about essentially using pain to fight back. I know it's dangerous for her to behave that way especially if she ever has to go back into livery but I feel awful every time. I only mention it because you weren't sure about using a bridle as you didn't want him getting his foot caught in the reins.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's not like running away with a headcollar on - horses can easily sever their tongue, fracture their jaw or sustain other horrific injuries if they run and step on a rope or line attached to a chifney.
 
It's possible you have hesitated at the mud, not wishing to get stuck, wet or covered in it. A horse would interpret this is dithering and unless they know you well dithering is viewed with intense suspicion and tends to produce undesirable reactions. In short, you may not have sold him the idea of marching undeterred through the mud. Stud chains are useful but as you said upthread if he gets away and stands on the rope a lot of damage could be done. I've always thought that one of the best tools in the owners arsenal is the human voice. You could try in a safe space to walk and trot in hand as you would for a vets inspection. Trot him up and bring him back to walk with the command 'W-alk' and tell him he's a good boy when he does it. Slight check before the mud or when he puts his head up, verbal cue so he knows what's expected and hope that helps.
 
Can you ride bareback? If he is good to ride and less bolshy I would try that, with a bridle of course. We had a place with a little river that had to be crossed by a very shallow ford to get into one of our far fields. One old mare really would not just walk over the ford alongside me so I started riding her over it, she didn't bat an eye with me riding. Bizarrely it didn't cure her completely of dislike of the ford, but for those turning her out that could ride bareback it wasn't an issue, for others that couldn't or wouldn't ride bareback, they were usually late home for tea. 😊 Good luck, summer soon and the land should soon be drying up.
 
personally i would use a dually and a lunge rein. the dually needs to be fitted correctly. it's no good it being loose. i don't know where you are in the country but i could recommend getting help from grant bazin - he is based between daventry and banbury but will travel. he is excellent and will really help you on the ground. look at his website https://www.grantbazin-thehorseman.co.uk/ . he really helped me - jay was very tricky to load but he is excellent with any issues.
 
Couldn’t quote for some reason, but I have used one like the Pro-Safe, with different options for control, on my big draft (not the one in the pic) - started using it when he had to be hand-grazed for four months after colic just to show him what was acceptable and what was not. He quickly respected it and we were soon able to use it on the setting that does not tighten. Now and again it comes out if he is feeling jolly, and straight away he is back to being polite. I do a lot of ground work with him as well around moving his feet, stopping, turning, poles etc.
 
I would actually get someone in to help.

Running off when led can be very dangerous, to be knocked to one side, possibly fall and be trodden on. I'm sorry but, for me, whatever the reason, the horse can't just unilaterally decide to bugger off every day regardless. I would be concerned that it is teaching him that he is stronger and can simply do as he wishes and that will, one day, happen in a far more dangerous situation, such as on the road.

I was always taught that once is a one off, twice a co-incidence but three times is training. So, it is many times and the behaviour is grooved in.

Having dealt with big and thickset horses, it needs jumping on and resolving. Personally, I would do whatever necessary to teach him that he can't simply go. I have re-trained a few who have learned to take the riders for a run, and, once the habit is ingrained, it is not always pretty to re-establish that the handler is the boss.

One particular horse, 17hh, was so ingrained that I said he couldn't leave the stable without a bit/headstall with a lunge rein over the top of the head and through the nearest bit ring. Another worked better with a bit/headstall and chain through the bit, in a circle, so if he pulled the chain tightened on the chin.

Sounds brutal, but it is to ensure the safety of the horse in the future. I saw it as the damage had already been done, rather than I was causing damage in curing it.

Sometimes, horses who were stir crazy on box rest had to have 2 lunge reins and 2 handlers, one each side, as they had started to strike out if there was only one handler. Box rested horses can be very dangerous and unpredictable once let out, and again, it sounds brutal, but is a short, sharp lesson so life can go back to normal and the horse is actually happier once order is restored.

I say to Get Help as a first resort rather than just throw kit on for a few reasons.

1. The kit itself can be dangerous of simply thrown on and you still lose control. It isn't just a case of heavy kit wins the day, it is also pressure/release training to ensure that the poor horse doesn't have to repeat the lessons with heavy kit on.
2. If the handler isn't efficient, the horse will still get away, and learn that he can bypass heavy kit too. The problem is then 1000 x worse!
3. The better the help/training, the less time the horse has to spend in discomfort. This is the only way it is fair to the horse.
4. Not only does a good trainer train the horse, they also train you to be a better handler long term to not only prevent issues in the future, but also to be proactively training the horse every time you handle it.

My own horses lead about the place in a plain headcollar, but they both had a time of training in other kit when they first arrived. I am very experienced, but my big horse also had help from a visiting trainer as I was not being precise enough for him. Getting good help is the fairest on the horse.

Good help would also be able to advise on whether a vet visit and investigations are a good idea, as well as any simple changes in the physical environment or routine.
 
Last edited:
This may well be a a training/confidence issue or as Red has said a pain issue, I have two cobs from Ireland and both took 18 months to be actually relaxed, they had a lot of internal worry going on, had been through multiple dealing yards, both jumped 5 bar gates to get out of their fields (both only once and when they first arrived). Can you find a good local trainer to work with you before this escalates further?
 
fredflop said:
How much work have you done in a rope halter? It takes a fair bit of training to get them to understand it.

I had a thug of a horse who had learnt similar tricks. He got a very nasty shock the first time I had the le mieux chain control headcollar on him and he got the biggest yank on it possible as he beggered off
Click to expand...
Thank you, I do groundwork with him in the halter probably twice a week since I've had him, which he responds well to, but is in a lunge pen, so confined area 🤷🏼‍♀️
 
JackFrost said:
Don't be dismissive of his fear. If he's otherwise a gentleman, I wouldnt be looking at this as naughtiness. You say he comes from Ireland - remember that in Ireland, and other places, horses can come to grief in bogs and marshes. You don;t know whether he has had or seen some such experience.
I'm assuming he's young? and not ridden yet? - you certainly don't want this to still be an issue when you are sitting on him. - one patch of mud and he'll be off!!
As he's good with groundwork, I would introduce exercises that are all about putting his feet on or in weird things, walking over different surfaces, through water etc.
You will be teaching him that while he is with you he can safely explore these surfaces, and he can trust you as his leader that you know what is safe for him to step on.
Listen to him, be patient and always reward the try. Some horses are just anxious about where they put their feet, but it's survival instinct.

You have not had him long, so he does not yet know how good and reliable you are as his leader.
In the wild, natural horse behaviour is to follow behind the leader. I have seen this is seriously treacherous places in Iceland where it is literally life and death if you step in the wrong place, but the whole herd will follow absolutely in the footsteps of the herd leader because they trust that the leader knows the way through.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this comment. I have given him the benefit of the doubt with it being fear, however, this morning I turned him out, went through the mud fine, got to field gate where he stood waiting, then suddenly just buggered off! No trigger, nothing. Just went from standing to canter in a split second.
I will certainly keep going with the ground work and introduce things for him to stand on and think about.
He is 6 years old, broken and riding nicely, though haven't taken him through mud under saddle yet!
I am hoping with some more time, groundwork etc. He will learn to trust me better!
 
Billy Pig said:
Thank you, I do groundwork with him in the halter probably twice a week since I've had him, which he responds well to, but is in a lunge pen, so confined area 🤷🏼‍♀️
Click to expand...
My thug horse would have just run through a rope halter, so he did all his ground work/leading in the chain halter.

It took many hours of training to get on top of his horrible habits. He also reverted back to them when I sold him
 
Red-1 said:
I would actually get someone in to help.

Running off when led can be very dangerous, to be knocked to one side, possibly fall and be trodden on. I'm sorry but, for me, whatever the reason, the horse can't just unilaterally decide to bugger off every day regardless. I would be concerned that it is teaching him that he is stronger and can simply do as he wishes and that will, one day, happen in a far more dangerous situation, such as on the road.

I was always taught that once is a one off, twice a co-incidence but three times is training. So, it is many times and the behaviour is grooved in.

Having dealt with big and thickset horses, it needs jumping on and resolving. Personally, I would do whatever necessary to teach him that he can't simply go. I have re-trained a few who have learned to take the riders for a run, and, once the habit is ingrained, it is not always pretty to re-establish that the handler is the boss.

One particular horse, 17hh, was so ingrained that I said he couldn't leave the stable without a bit/headstall with a lunge rein over the top of the head and through the nearest bit ring. Another worked better with a bit/headstall and chain through the bit, in a circle, so if he pulled the chain tightened on the chin.

Sounds brutal, but it is to ensure the safety of the horse in the future. I saw it as the damage had already been done, rather than I was causing damage in curing it.

Sometimes, horses who were stir crazy on box rest had to have 2 lunge reins and 2 handlers, one each side, as they had started to strike out if there was only one handler. Box rested horses can be very dangerous and unpredictable once let out, and again, it sounds brutal, but is a short, sharp lesson so life can go back to normal and the horse is actually happier once order is restored.

I say to Get Help as a first resort rather than just throw kit on for a few reasons.

1. The kit itself can be dangerous of simply thrown on and you still lose control. It isn't just a case of heavy kit wins the day, it is also pressure/release training to ensure that the poor horse doesn't have to repeat the lessons with heavy kit on.
2. If the handler isn't efficient, the horse will still get away, and learn that he can bypass heavy kit too. The problem is then 1000 x worse!
3. The better the help/training, the less time the horse has to spend in discomfort. This is the only way it is fair to the horse.
4. Not only does a good trainer train the horse, they also train you to be a better handler long term to not only prevent issues in the future, but also to be proactively training the horse every time you handle it.

My own horses lead about the place in a plain headcollar, but they both had a time of training in other kit when they first arrived. I am very experienced, but my big horse also had help from a visiting trainer as I was not being precise enough for him. Getting good help is the fairest on the horse.

Good help would also be able to advise on whether a vet visit and investigations are a good idea, as well as any simple changes in the physical environment or routine.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. Is there anyone in particular you might recommend that covers the midlands?
I was considering this. I'm generally not one to mess about and faff when it comes to sorting issues and would quite like to have this sorted sooner rather than later, whether that's using a suggested method, or having someone in to sort it. My only concern with having someone in, is that he will do it on first turn out, but if you get him back and do the whole thing again, he's good as gold, so it is hard to recreate the issue twice in a day for someone to come and work it through!
 
Billy Pig said:
Thank you so much. Is there anyone in particular you might recommend that covers the midlands?
I was considering this. I'm generally not one to mess about and faff when it comes to sorting issues and would quite like to have this sorted sooner rather than later, whether that's using a suggested method, or having someone in to sort it. My only concern with having someone in, is that he will do it on first turn out, but if you get him back and do the whole thing again, he's good as gold, so it is hard to recreate the issue twice in a day for someone to come and work it through!
Click to expand...
I had Joe Midgely help me. I also like Richard Maxwell. I've heard good things about others too, I'm sure someone will be nearby.

I wouldn't worry about replicating it, I'm sure there will be areas that a trainer will uncover issues with, other then the specific mud thing. Although that doesn't really seem to be a mud thing, as he proved this morning. Also, if it were purely physical, I would think it would be every time he went through the mud.

When I did this type of training, I would start by handling the horse and generally the issue would be sorted before we ever got to take the horse to the mud.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top