Horse bolts when mounting

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Crabbypink

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We've recently taken on a project horse - 9 years old, and cannot be ridden (yet). Had vet check him out - he appears to have no health problems. Some white scarring on withers says he may have had a bad saddle. He is polite and kind on the ground, and learns quickly. We've taught him to lunge and he goes for walks around the village. He's not frightened by much. But ... we can't mount him. He's been lunged with properly fitting tack, and appears to have no problem with that. We put sand-stuffed jods on his back, and he got used to that. But trying to mount him is like trying to mount a runaway train. He bolts! My yard manager leaned over his saddle today, and he bolted, then got his feet all tangled up. I sincerely believe he's had a bad experience, and not been ridden since. But can anyone give me some good advice on how to go about gaining this boy's confidence? He's just so beautiful and capable - it would be such a waste to never ride this lovely horse!
 
Crabbypink said:
We've recently taken on a project horse - 9 years old, and cannot be ridden (yet). Had vet check him out - he appears to have no health problems. Some white scarring on withers says he may have had a bad saddle. He is polite and kind on the ground, and learns quickly. We've taught him to lunge and he goes for walks around the village. He's not frightened by much. But ... we can't mount him. He's been lunged with properly fitting tack, and appears to have no problem with that. We put sand-stuffed jods on his back, and he got used to that. But trying to mount him is like trying to mount a runaway train. He bolts! My yard manager leaned over his saddle today, and he bolted, then got his feet all tangled up. I sincerely believe he's had a bad experience, and not been ridden since. But can anyone give me some good advice on how to go about gaining this boy's confidence? He's just so beautiful and capable - it would be such a waste to never ride this lovely horse!
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How did she go to lean over? Did she put foot in stirrup first?
Is he comfortable by people and things being above him? Such as someone sitting on a fence next to him, above him.
 
It could be a response to pain or where he may have been in pain before his expecting it to hurt, or it could be that his had a bad experience with being mounted, did the previous owners ride him?
 
He might drive, but that does not help you.
Just persevere with grooming him from above the eyeline , but be careful, you should only ever try backing, by which I mean your feet off the ground, with hat and back protector, and I would have his back feet unshod [probably fronts too]. Only try on soft surface, and in a confined area.
You need two people plus the backer, and it might take three months for him to accept anyone, and maybe never.
Of course he may have some damage. This should be considered.
I would first try lying over a roller with a pad. He may accept this.
You may need to lightly sedate, which is not a great idea, but you can think about it..
 
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To be totally honest with you at nine yo I am sure many people have already tried to sort the problem . I sometime despair at people thinking they can sort out what others cant.Invariably its those who are least capable and knowledgeable! Sorry OP but the fact you have to come on here to ask others how to manage it is testament to why I despair! Please be very careful I am sure plenty will give you lots of advice on this one but just remember its not their necks on the line when you carry out what they suggest.
I know what I would suggest but it wont be popular so best not say it!! just infer it may be safest idea for you and the horse as it obviously has a problem
 
When we got our ISH he was difficult to mount. Not quite to the extent your lad is - it took 2 adults and 2 lunge whips to hold him for my daughter to mount and then dive out of the way of his feet (he was and is a very talented jumper and a honey on the ground so we stuck with him) - or she could leg up on the move which was probably all he had been taught. He had the unlovely habit of trying to avoid being mounted by striking forward with his hind foot to hit the rider. He too would bolt forward as soon as weight appeared lashing out at anyone on the ground - although in fairness he could be circled and brought back quite quickly - it was temper not a panic bolt. He was quite a pain.

We got him over it pretty much as bonkers suggests. Lots of work above his eye line. It helped that our daughter was quite short (he was a Junior BS pony) so had to groom, plait etc standing on a box. We stood on fences, got a super high mounting block. When we decided we were going to deal with this one way or the other we settled for a bareback pad so no-one could get caught on stirrups etc) and just mounted and mounted and mounted. We spent a week doing no work at all - just mounting and dismounting 20, 30, 40 times. He could run off and do whatever he wanted; but he had to come back and be mounted again. The rider could just roll off safely - all done on a deep surfaced enclosed school. (and my very brave daughter!) After a week we brought the saddle back (all checks done...) and repeated it without stirrups then with stirrups. All in all it took about 3 weeks I think. he isn't perfect to mount - but much better. If he hadn't been so great we wouldn't have bothered.

Good luck with your lad - it does come right!
 
We took the stirrups off, because we felt it was more of a hazard at this point. She leaned over the saddle, until her full weight was on his back, feet just above the mounting block. I think you have a good point about the people being taller than he is. We are going to try to sit on the fence next to him, without mounting, to desensitise him from that. Thanks.
 
Bonkers, you have a point that he'd rather be living out his days in a field, but wouldn't we all? He's so beautiful, and so capable (he can jump out of a 4½ foot sand school). It would be a true shame not to try with this boy.
 
I'm a lawyer. I know what the risks are, and I'm not holding anyone responsible for my actions. I'm not looking for a fix; I'm looking for advice from people who have done this sort of thing. It can be done. There is lots of advice out there. Since this horse is so easy to handle on the ground, I suspect the mounting problem can be solved. At least, I'm willing to have a go. It's only been about 6 weeks, without really trying to mount him yet. Early days. Nothing good comes quickly or easily.
 
The previous owner is a dealer, who got him free from someone, who was too terrified to try to ride him. The dealer wasn't going to put any time into him, so we agreed to take him on. He has white scars on his withers. Very likely a bad saddle. We did have the vet do a full check, and a particular spine check, with positive results. I think your point about memory is probably accurate.
 
Bonkers2, thanks. Those are good suggestions. He is completely unshod. Anyone near him during these sessions has a hat on, and I've said to my yard manager that she should have my back protector. We do have a confined area, and a sand surface. We will try one more person with him, and I'm going to ring the chiropractor to have a session done. Sedation is a consideration, but as you say, not great. Will consider, though, if it seems to be going the wrong way. Will also try the roller, instead of the saddle. Thanks again.
 
I think your deluding yourself !!! how does being pretty and jumping 4.5 foot sand school fence make any difference. The pretty ones are the worse as they have got to nione years old only due to their looks. Sorry have to be so blunt but seriously ask yourself if the dealer would not try to put it right what makes you think you can!! LOL The white scars are just as likely to be from a badly fitting rug as a poor fitting saddle and maybe he jumps out of the sand school out of fear. What worries me most you are expecting somebody else to risk their neck!!!! More fool them
 
Bonkers2 said:
Of course horses don't think like you do: he might prefer to live out his days in the company of his equine friends and not humans. This would be my idea of rescueing many of these animals.
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I have one at home 10yo full brother to an advance eventer . He had a bad experience when younger and nowhere as bad as the OPs however despite all the begging to be allowed to try I wont allow anybody to ride him as I could not live with myself if anything went wrong. Hes just a field ornament but better that than hurting somebody .
The OP as a solicitor must be aware that they could be held liable for any injuries to a third party as they clearly know there is a problem.
 
popsdosh said:
To be totally honest with you at nine yo I am sure many people have already tried to sort the problem . I sometime despair at people thinking they can sort out what others cant.Invariably its those who are least capable and knowledgeable! Sorry OP but the fact you have to come on here to ask others how to manage it is testament to why I despair! Please be very careful I am sure plenty will give you lots of advice on this one but just remember its not their necks on the line when you carry out what they suggest.
I know what I would suggest but it wont be popular so best not say it!! just infer it may be safest idea for you and the horse as it obviously has a problem
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Totally and utterly agree with this!
It's such a shame but there are enough lovely horses in this world without having to risk life and limb on one with major issues (sad as it is for the horse who probably ended up with these problems as a result of human error in the first place)....
 
popsdosh said:
I think your deluding yourself !!! how does being pretty and jumping 4.5 foot sand school fence make any difference. The pretty ones are the worse as they have got to nione years old only due to their looks. Sorry have to be so blunt but seriously ask yourself if the dealer would not try to put it right what makes you think you can!! LOL The white scars are just as likely to be from a badly fitting rug as a poor fitting saddle and maybe he jumps out of the sand school out of fear. What worries me most you are expecting somebody else to risk their neck!!!! More fool them
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Because the OP wants to ride him and everyone always thinks they can do a better job than the one before them who failed. Its how these horses end up in this state in the first place. I'd be getting his back xrayed and physio etc done before I went any further if I was you. Then I would find a seriously good pro who is totally aware of all the issues and pay them to try and sort it. If they cant, then either PTS or retire the horse, but dont pass him on
 
i think you are probably on to a hiding to nothing except a visit to A&E however:

my 3yo didnt bolt, but did bronc (all 4 feet above head height like a rodeo horse).

the superb trainer that managed to back him did the following....

firstly i taught him to give,instantly,to lateral flexion so that you could pick up the rein and take only a tiny amount of pressure and he would bend right round to touch his nose to the girth area.

this was then used whilst pressure was applied, ie he didnt like stirrups banging on him so he was stood up quietly and asked to flex half way, stirrups then banged, if he launched off the flexion was increased and the banging kept up until he stopped moving his feet and gave full flexion and at that point flexion was released and banging stopped. He learnt it was easy to stand in half flexion and that if more flexion was requested,giving full flexion would stop the pressure(in this example the banging).

once you could flap bang launch and leap round him from the ground and standing on a box and he would ALWAYS immediately give to flexion, the trainer let his stirrup down low enough it was easy to put the tip of his toe in, put the horse in half flexion and started to bounce off the low stirrup next to him. Any panic and it was easy to keep the horse in a tight circle and keep toe in stirrup so again horse learnt that giving to the flexion releases pressure (foot out of stirrup and praise as soon as horse stands quietly).

this progressed to being able to stand up in the stirrup and lean against the horse,keeping some flexion so that it was easy to bring him round in a circle if he wanted to bronc.

he didnt even attempt to get on until he could mount half way from both sides, lean right over and bang down the opposite side, rub his free foot all the way along the horses belly/elbows and stifle and kneel on the rump with free leg. he did this stationary AND whilst asking the horse to walk in small circles.

there is no way getting more and more people to try and restrain the horse would have worked. He had to learn to give to flexion and trust that giving would make life easier.

you cant over power a panicking horse,only out think them.

be careful.

the 3yo is question has been a complete dude since coming home and if he does have a green moment, flexing him puts him instantly *back in the room* and calms him totally. I've only had to use it once when he was a bit over excited on a mini hack with another horse-felt like he wanted to jump forward and maybe buck, flexed him round and he stopped, gave relaxed and walked on totally fine :)
 
Crabbypink said:
The previous owner is a dealer, who got him free from someone, who was too terrified to try to ride him. The dealer wasn't going to put any time into him, so we agreed to take him on. He has white scars on his withers. Very likely a bad saddle. We did have the vet do a full check, and a particular spine check, with positive results. I think your point about memory is probably accurate.
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This was not a vetting though, no vet would advise you to take this on.
No pro will want to risk life and limb to sort your horse, he might take your money , but he won't risk llife and limb.
People who could handle horses like this are rare and they know better than to buy them.
 
Years ago I bought a horse that to be fair I was told was a bit tricky to get on. When I tried him the owner first got on and he shuffled around a bit and then when I rode him he did the same. Decided that was not too bad and he was right for me in other ways. Hindsight is a wonderful thing - I am pretty certain they had got on him before I arrived!

Got him home and then the first time I tried to get on him I had just got my foot in the stirrup and jumped up at which point he whipped round and shot off down the yard with the result that I hit the floor hard. The only way I could get on him was to have someone hold him, someone hold a front leg up and someone else leg me up. Once I was on I had to keep my weight off his back and let him walk on straight away and then he settled and was absolutely fine.

We tried lungeing him with stirrups down - no problem. Standing on a box so I was higher than him - no problem. Leaning over the saddle whilst standing on the box - no problem. Jumping up and down on the box - no problem. Still needed three people to get me on. I was a LOT younger then and persevered with it - don't think I would now. One day I was out hacking with a friend and got knocked off when a gate shut on us as we were going through the gateway. It was a long way from home and I thought I would have to lead him home. My friend offered to give me a leg up which I rather dubiously accepted but to my complete surprise it was not a problem. As a result of that I would get on and then immediately off him and back on again a few times. After a few months I was able to get on him on my own.

I had been able to ride him and had him fully vetted before I bought him so knew there was no physical problem with him being ridden.
 
Ideally take him to a professional who is used to this kind of thing who can take their time to sort him out.

If you want to do this yourself think about desensitising him and rewarding positive behaviour. Find what he tolerates, reward and repeat that behaviour until he is comfortable, then take it a tiny step further. Take your time and do little and often.
 
Im on the fence here. I believe every horse deserves a chance. i was told my stallion "freaked out" by long lining and having things behind him so his owner stopped doing it. I found him to be a little scared of things below his tail line, but spending ten mins every day randomly pulling his tail with the whip and touching his back legs with it sorted it and he is now one of my best, and has so much potential. He hitched up absolutely no issue. I am a novice but felt able to deal with the issue. Had he been a full size horse who was bolting each time? I probably could not have dealt.

You have to ask yourself do you REALLY have the experience for it. Clearly something is wrong with him be it physical or mental but at 9 he should be settling himself now. If a dealer won't even touch him i can't see how any other professional would. At 9 he is not going to be carving out a career other than a pleasure horse but would you want one you know has the potential to bolt? To me a bolting horse, a true bolting horse, is not very safe.
 
To those people who have simply written about how useless I am and how stupid we are to take on this project: if you haven't any suggestions, then keep your opinion to yourself. I'm not making anyone do anything. My yard manager and I are doing this together. I'm not asking anyone to take responsibility for my doing what they suggest. I am very experienced, and putting this on a forum is perfectly acceptable - that is what forums are for. If you haven't anything positive to add, then don't bother to add your negative comments.
 
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If you post on a forum saying you bought a horse that bolts what can you do, you expect answers. Sorry if they are not all flowers and pink fluffy clouds. Sometimes people need a reality check from someone impartial!
 
Crabbypink said:
I am very experienced, and putting this on a forum is perfectly acceptable - that is what forums are for. If you haven't anything positive to add, then don't bother to add your negative comments.
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And so is responding in a way you dont like. Its how forums work.

For someone with so much experience you seem to have been several huge mistakes already
 
Hi,

Sorry about your predicament.

First off, Sparkle Sister 1 had some excellent advice.

Second, before you start on Princess Sparkle's advice, and that of those that suggest the height theory, please get his back x-rayed. If he has Kissing Spine, which results in all sorts of explosions and bolting - a few of us here have the tee shirts, me included - it will only be revealed through x-rays. No amount of vet prodding with calipers will reveal that information, although it might 'suggest' a sore back. It could be mild, in which case there could be hope, or it could be absent, in which case there could be hope, or it could be prolific, in which case there could be no hope. What a back x-ray won't reveal is an SI injury (which also can produce a similar response - I have that tee-shirt, too) but there could be indicators for that which a good vet can spot.

Third, getting him scoped for ulcers is a very good idea. In the meantime, take him off all starches and sugars, and soak his hay. Start feeding Brewers Yeast or similar. But get the vet out pronto and see whether he has lesions. Even tiny ones can cause a big reaction.

Fourth, if he has just come to you, it might be worth waiting a bit before you do anything - give him some stability. It sounds as though he has been passed from pillar to post. He's going to be unsettled -which will aggravate his ulcers if he has any.

HTH
 
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