Horse bolts when mounting

[popsdosh]

To those people who have simply written about how useless I am and how stupid we are to take on this project: if you haven't any suggestions, then keep your opinion to yourself. I'm not making anyone do anything. My yard manager and I are doing this together. I'm not asking anyone to take responsibility for my doing what they suggest. I am very experienced, and putting this on a forum is perfectly acceptable - that is what forums are for. If you haven't anything positive to add, then don't bother to add your negative comments.

You onbviously have so much experience to have to ask the question. All the replies so far have been about trying to save yours and anybody elses neck. It is so charming when new posters on here are so sure of themselves and rude. You put it on a public forum and then are surprised that you dont agree with all the answers but we are equally entitled to our opinions and some will have a lot more relevant knowledge than you frankly appear to posses . Sorry we have wasted our time trying to put you right and good luck. Just remember a very true saying ' once a bolter always a bolter' So good luck

 

[TrasaM]

I had an ex racer as a share once and he was a pain to mount. The saddle he had was too small plus he had a bit which was 3/4" too big. He would fidget and fuss and as soon as you were on he'd dash forwards then when I stopped that he'd run backwards. He took off with me one day when I was half way on..one stirrup and one rein. He dashed off across the school with me lying over his rump.. One of these moments when a lot of thoughts flash through your mind! Lucky my self preservation kicked in and I pulled myself upright and managed to stop him. I got advice and then took a friend with me who fed him treats at each stage of the mounting process. It took about half an hour I think before I could get on and have him stand still. After this there were no further problems and I could mount him anywhere without a problem.
In his case I'm sure it was associated discomfort due to ill fitting tack - I got him a saddle he was comfy in btw, as soon as I found out that his saddle didn't fit.
Proceed with caution in any case. Is there any way you can find out his history ?

 

[Goldenstar]

These horses are not suitable for most people to back .
Tbh and blunt that you say it's a good idea to get up above him as one poster suggested just shows out out of your depth you and the YOer are .
Grooming should be undertaken from above to prepare the horse and to you get to moment when you get on the horse .
When I was on a yard where we backed lot we groomed standing on pretty high stools and chairs the horse where completely laid back by us doing this and dragging the stools about and hopping on and off them .
We would lean on them while grooming slump against them and eventually lie across them in the stable with one person at the horse head and another to leg gently up or sometimes we just used to stool .
This almost always told us which ones where going to be more difficult and needed more work before we got on .
PS post is exactly how to approach the issue now you're got a big problem to handle although if I where I would researching the horses history because there's no point or is it fair to puts the horse though this if something in it's past explains why it's got to nine years unbacked.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

yes i should add(albeit rather late) i am assuming this is with no physical issues found after extensive searching. We had all the usual checks done on my boy and as no pain response was located at all, sent him away to super trainer rather than start x raying etc, to see what he thought. The fact he improved so quickly and in such a solid way(ie no relapses) told us it wasnt pain but at 9yo many more attempts will have been made and the problem is far more likely to be physical.

 

[Pinkvboots]

To those people who have simply written about how useless I am and how stupid we are to take on this project: if you haven't any suggestions, then keep your opinion to yourself. I'm not making anyone do anything. My yard manager and I are doing this together. I'm not asking anyone to take responsibility for my doing what they suggest. I am very experienced, and putting this on a forum is perfectly acceptable - that is what forums are for. If you haven't anything positive to add, then don't bother to add your negative comments.

if I were you I would have the horse checked over to rule out ulcers spine or back issues by a good vet and that means scope and X rays if need be because he was passed on to a dealer as dangerous to ride chances are he has pain somewhere, if he is pain free I would send him to a pro that deals with horses with behaviour issues, there is a place near me in Welwyn they take difficult horses for training a friend of mine sent her pony to them as she started to buck very badly she was there about a month my friend went down to ride her there and watch them working with her and she came back a different pony, all her problems started she thinks from a saddle that didnt fit and even when it was changed she still bucked, honestly I wouldn't even attempt to try yourself but you must rule out any physical problems first.

 

[maccachic]

I was at an event the other day and sat in on a clinic with Carlos tabernaberri and he made a very good point that if you cannot control your horse / gets it attention on the ground you should not get on it.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I was at an event the other day and sat in on a clinic with Carlos tabernaberri and he made a very good point that if you cannot control your horse / gets it attention on the ground you should not get on it.

this is not relevant, who would be so stupid?

 

[madmav]

Warwick Schiller has some interesting videos on utube that deal with problems like this.

 

[maccachic]

this is not relevant, who would be so stupid?

Umm it is relevant how many above posted that they still got on despite obvious issues on the ground - there is a mother above who said she used to shove her daughter up. I see it regularly at an events etc unsettled horse cant be settled on the ground still ridden.

Common sense is not common.

 

[Crabbypink]

HeresHoping - thank you. I have just called the chiropractor, but I'll ask the vet to do an x-ray, too. And I'm going to the feed shop right now, so I can get the brewers yeast. He has only been with us six weeks, so your comment about stability is totally justified. He's a good boy in most respects, so I am hopeful. Thanks for your constructive comments.

 

[positivity]

considering you dont know the situation i think its unfair and infact a bit dim & snobby of you to criticize and expect they mistakes have been made

 

[Equi]

dim and snobby. Great first post

 

[positivity]

yeah :thumbup: well you never stop learning when it comes to a horse and each one is different. asking for fresh ideas amongst the usual isnt a bad thing, seems like a good idea to hear some veiws which vary the horses learning curve to make it a better experience. obviously some people believe posting in a forum makes it a bad thing except in this case its purely to interpret ideas with their own

 

[Leo Walker]

yeah :thumbup: well you never stop learning when it comes to a horse and each one is different. asking for fresh ideas amongst the usual isnt a bad thing, seems like a good idea to hear some veiws which vary the horses learning curve to make it a better experience. obviously some people believe posting in a forum makes it a bad thing except in this case its purely to interpret ideas with their own

Your almost right. Asking for fresh ideas is never a bad idea. The flaw in your argument is that several fundamental mistakes have already been made so far with the horse. Not always the end of the world with something straight forward, but this horse isnt, and in these sort of circumstances you need to make sure than no mistakes are ever made and everything is totally cemented before you move to the next stage.

It really does sound to me like if there are no physical issues then this a pro job. You can have all the experience in the world as a horse owner, but you will never come close to the experience of a good pro who rides several horses a day and has backed and ridden away more horses than the average person will ever even sit on.

I fractured my spine trying to help a friend with her tricky horse, it was mainly an accident, and a tiny bit a moment of stupidity on my behalf, and one that I would have gotten away with a thousand times over on different horses. It doesnt change the fact that 3 years down the line I am crippled. Cant walk more than 50yds without being in agony, cant do most of the things I used to, and every bloody day is a fight just to semi function. I also had lots of experience!

 

[maccachic]

http://www.aebc.com.au/files/media/Setting good ground rules Part 6.pdf

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

If I were OP I would forget about riding for 6 months, and do parelli and other games, it would be something useful in this case, but I don't really know if will help with the main problem, only because I am not sure it will be sortable.

 

[Frumpoon]

Omg this could be one of mine, we X rayed the spine, no kissing spines or fractures or similar but on scanning we found several scarred lesions in the supra spinous ligament, VERY painful.....

Now there's really no treatment for this but as a last resort we tried acupuncture which has really helped, he's still very flighty so we are investigating ulcers or similar as he is v guards on his right hand flank but it was definitely worth perservering

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Omg this could be one of mine, we X rayed the spine, no kissing spines or fractures or similar but on scanning we found several scarred lesions in the supra spinous ligament, VERY painful.....

Now there's really no treatment for this but as a last resort we tried acupuncture which has really helped, he's still very flighty so we are investigating ulcers or similar as he is v guards on his right hand flank but it was definitely worth perservering

Well lets hope OP has deep pockets.

 

[Frumpoon]

Ah well true, but my little man was absolute steal so I figure the money spent on vets bills kind of evens it up and he is absolute poppet to handle and be around so it'll all be worth it in the end

 

[popsdosh]

considering you dont know the situation i think its unfair and infact a bit dim & snobby of you to criticize and expect they mistakes have been made

Trolls are great and very easily spotted an OP and another defending who are both new posters .LOL

 

[Pinkvboots]

HeresHoping - thank you. I have just called the chiropractor, but I'll ask the vet to do an x-ray, too. And I'm going to the feed shop right now, so I can get the brewers yeast. He has only been with us six weeks, so your comment about stability is totally justified. He's a good boy in most respects, so I am hopeful. Thanks for your constructive comments.

6 weeks is no time at all he could still be just settling in to his surroundings and it sounds like his been passed on quite a bit so he may have trust issues, I think your doing the right thing getting him checked over I hope he has nothing seriously wrong.

 

[Crabbypink]

Thank you to the last few posters, who were positive. No matter my 30+ years experience, I am still learning. I've never done this particular job with this particular horse, but I do think it is worth trying. I do have deep pockets, Bonkers2, but that isn't the point. I may have to resort to Jason Webb, and that would be OK, but for now, I'm willing to try myself, so long as I think I can make some progress. We have backed way off with this horse, and we are doing a lot of playing, desensitising and just trust development. I would love to say I'd post his progress in a few months time, but it wouldn't be worth the barrage of nasty comments I'd get again. So thanks to everyone who did post something positive. I'll keep your ideas and suggestions on a page, and read them from time to time. For now, though, I'd like this thread to close. I tried to get H&H to delete it, because of the amount of ugliness in it, but so far, no luck. If I end up with a beautiful field ornament, then so be it, but it won't be because I didn't try my hardest. I have all the time in the world, resources, and good people around me. Thanks again, to those who tried to help.

 

[minigammo]

I had the same problem with my mare. Lots of ground work and slowly getting on and off treating and lots of praise.. youl get there in the end. you have to show him its ok and a nice experience when his human gets on his back good luck

 

[Luci07]

See, I have an issue with the tone of a lot of the responses and how judgemental they were and I have been on here for a long time. Back off! Time was when you could ask a question and have some interesting points raised. Now it seems a lot of people prefer to jump in with criticism. A lot of unpleasant assumptions were made as well. There is a lot of experience on this board and it is really interesting to see what different people think and can offer. I have seen some very tricky horses come in as projects and I have seen when a pro has turned round to get more advice when the behaviour is well out of the expected range. Good luck OP and I for one would be interested in updates (if you can bear to).

 

[EQUIDAE]

OP I got the same when I first posted. I got some fantastic advice and some advice I knew wouldn't work for this particular horse. People do get offended if you reject their advice but training isn't a one size fits all approach and I now have more tools in my kit if I ever have any other problems in the future.

One thing I would say is that establishing pain isn't the cause should be the first thing done not the last, and failing to do so is barbaric

KS and SI problems don't show up under a normal vet exam as they result in mechanical pain not muscular pain. The pain is very sudden and intense - I would hate to be in a position where I put a horse through this through ignorance and thinking that no immediate back pain meant no back pain at all.

If this was my horse I wouldn't ride until I had established pain was not an issue so I would have full X-Ray's of the back and SI and also either scoping for ulcers or a course of gastroguard.

Please do the right thing by this horse - too many are 'rescued' and rehabilitated and are actually in a worse situation than they started in

 

[9tails]

H&H don't close threads for what you perceive to be a bit of ugliness. Not being involved in the process, I actually can't see any ugliness. I can see why people are incredulous at your supposed experience when you disprove KS because a vet did a "spine check" but no xrays and you don't know about ulcers.

 

[Sags_Deer]

The horse is in pain that is why it is bolting please get it scanned ASAP

 

[Fun Times]

See, I have an issue with the tone of a lot of the responses and how judgemental they were and I have been on here for a long time. Back off! Time was when you could ask a question and have some interesting points raised. Now it seems a lot of people prefer to jump in with criticism. A lot of unpleasant assumptions were made as well. There is a lot of experience on this board and it is really interesting to see what different people think and can offer. I have seen some very tricky horses come in as projects and I have seen when a pro has turned round to get more advice when the behaviour is well out of the expected range. Good luck OP and I for one would be interested in updates (if you can bear to).

I agree with this. Just what is the point in telling the OP they are out of their depth and don't know what they are doing? If you believe this to be the case, then why not try to help instead of castigate the OP? I agree that in the interests of safety people need to know their limitations but surely we do not all just say "oh I can't do this" everytime something goes wrong? Good luck OP, I would also be interested to know how you get on (literally)!.

 

[Equi]

OP gave no indication to their experience, situation or anything else. To me it sounded like they bought the horse out of pity. I have 20+ years experience and still make mistakes. A recent 9yo loan who was mental, so only stayed 2 months! I realised i had NO idea what i was doing with it despite my years before. Sometimes you have to realise your limitations and not take offence then have a rant about how everyone is picking on you.

And for the record i took a MASSIVE bashing on here for my posts relating to the horse. I know how it feels. But most people were truthful, i was out of my depth.

 

[popsdosh]

Personally I think the OP has totally over reacted . In my experience this type of horse will have already gone through several hands some of them professional none of whom have fixed it . Is it really worth the risk.
As for the percieved nastiness ,I dont see it but each to there own . Perhaps if the op had mentioned their 'huge experience ' I would have just left it alone. However I assumed if they needed to ask this sort of question they would like the honest answer. Why is it riders have this inbuilt feeling they can cure something that others most likely a lot more experienced can not.
All you shouting about its not like it used to be on here thats because a lot of very experienced posters from the past have tried to pass on some of their knowledge only to end up in situations like a few have on here ! I am afraid some people are only happy to accept the fluffy bunny answers and not be realist and complain if they dont get the answers they want. That is why a lot of very experienced people are no longer posting on here as its not worth their time and effort. You get left with the muppets!or a flock of sheep.