Horse bought not as described...............

charlie76

charlie76

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A friend bought a horse last week for a significant amount of money. She is a novice rider and the ad described the horse as being an allrounder, 100% this that and the other, quiet etc.
It had a 5 * vetting which it passed and the vet said it was fine when vetted. However we have got the horse home and in the first 10 minutes of her riding in it bogged off and bucked her off- big style. Understandbly she didn't really want to ride it after that so I have been working it. I have been lunging it and it is nappy on the lunge, I have ridden it and it has done a runner with me then napped a lot inc rearing, head throwing and stamping its front foot.
Basically its unsuitable, have phoned old owners and they assured it has never done it with them- but then they would say that!
What would you do?
 
Invite the previous owner to come and ride it at your yard and see if it changes anything. Alert the vet that the bloods might need examining and if you know somebody who is well qualified and truely independent, consider asking them for a professional opinion that they might need to be prepared to go to County Court with..although anything you can do to avoid going to court would be good. Consider re vetting to eliminate any possible injuries received since the original vetting or while travelling.
 
TBQH it doesnt sound suitable when i first got my horse he wasnt as bad as this horse sounds and was quite stressed! Once he had been out in the field and realised he was ok where he was he settled down v quickly! Tell her to give it some time before she even considers riding it again!
 
Private Sale or from a dealer ?

I take it she rode the horse before she bought it ? What was it like then ?

If she had a 5* vetting then the bloods can be checked to see if the horse was doped at the time it was vetted.

If all else fails, you can pursue them through the Small Claims court.
 
I rode the horse 2 days ago with an FBHS helping and he said that the horse was in no way suitable for a novice.
 
Firstly get the bloods tested.
Capture the horses behaviour on video, send it to the old owners. Perhaps suggest they come over and see if the horse does it with them.
If you are still having problems after a week or so then try and get them to refund and take the horse back (I assume it was a private seller).
 
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I rode the horse 2 days ago with an FBHS helping and he said that the horse was in no way suitable for a novice.

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they need to commit that point of view to a written detailed statement asap so that it has relevance to any potential civil claim
 
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I rode the horse 2 days ago with an FBHS helping and he said that the horse was in no way suitable for a novice.

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Buyer beware and all that. Did the add specifically say suitable for a novice?
 
Ad is not still on line but purchaser has it. It was described as an allrounder which its not- you couldn't get it round a dressage test, cross country course or SJ course as you wouldn't get her passed the gate or collecting ring.
 
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Ad is not still on line but purchaser has it. It was described as an allrounder which its not- you couldn't get it round a dressage test, cross country course or SJ course as you wouldn't get her passed the gate or collecting ring.

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Well, i don't think that is necessarily a valid argument in this case
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The most important (and imo arguable) point is the point about it being a novice ride. Lots of very successful horses nap and tart around, but certain riders can get a tune from them in them ring. Pretty well any horse can be described as an all-rounder
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ETS: Who went with the purchaser to try the horse ? Did they ride it as well ? Could they make a comparitive analysis now the horse is in it's new home ?
 
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It was described as an allrounder which its not

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That is not the same as saying it is suitable for a novice.

And whose to say it can't do all the things as advertised??

I wonder if your friend has just bought the first nice looking horse that she saw/fell in love with - but didn't take a professional with her to offer her advice on whether this particular horse was for her or not?
 
Ah well unless the ad said suitable for a nervous novice I dont think you have a leg to stand on.

My Latvian has evented for years and done up to intermediate dressage, been there and done it in every discipline, but as my stepdad found out last weekend, put a novice on him and he will take off, nap, buck and generally be a pain in the bum!
Yet I have never had one single problem with him.

Sometimes the most experienced horses are the ones to take the pee because they know thier stuff so well!

He could be taking the pee.
 
Anything said by the vendor also potentially forms part of a contract, which is why it is so important to ask as many questions as possible when buying a horse, and make a note of all the responses. A clever buyer will contemporaneously record the questions and answers when they view a horse and invite the vendor to sign the record of those comments..unusual and a bit anal I know but this is a purchase that can kill you if you get it wrong. If the vendor refuses to sign to confirm the information they have given you verbally then walking away might be a good idea.
 
Yep, agree, my horsie is definately an allrounder, but would NOT be suitable for a novice, and like many others, some days can be a complete t*t (like this morning when he flatly refused to do anything apart from canter sideways and buck/snort whenever asked to do anything but walk). But I would advertise him as an allrounder, because he has been placed regularly in all 3 disciplines!
Think there are a lot of horses out there like that!
As to the napping, could that be because the horse is in a new place?
 
Can I just add(which I feel is important) that this horse does this with me, not just the owner. I am not a novice rider! I have ridden a number( inc one of my own) naughty nappy horses and know when a horse knows exactly what it is doing in an effort to get out of work.
Also, when I rode it yesterday, it napped, I moved my hand to shorten the rein and it ran- it was expecting a crack. I am sure that this horse is not doing this for the first time.
 
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have ridden a number( inc one of my own) naughty nappy horses and know when a horse knows exactly what it is doing in an effort to get out of work.


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Doesn't matter - if the question wasn't asked about whether it napped or not, then obviously the seller is not required to divulge it, as it's not a vice. Still doesn't mean it's not a good all rounder.
 
Good lord! How scarey!

How does it work then if you sell a horse that to your knowledge IS good but there is a difference in rider skills?

I mean - most horses can take the p*ss with a more novice rider. Would this make you (as a seller) vulnerable to legal action because the person buying can't ride it?

Sorry - i know its a bit off topic and im not selling anything but Im just curious! I was always under the assumption that it was rather buyer-beware (within reason of course)

ETS just to clarify and taking slightly from what AmyMay is saying. If I was selling and the horse had never napped with me and I SAID this and said horsey then goes onto a more novice home where he naps and generally takes the p*ss - would I as a seller be in trouble?
 
How long have you had the horse home and how many times did she ride it?

I think its important to ride any potential horse at least twice, on different days, and to make sure you do as much as possible on him , things that you would want t do when you brought him home, hack, school etc.

How soon when you brought him home did she ride him, and how old is he? Could it just be he hasnt settled in and is feeling stressed?

Has his tack been checked?
 
They also said the horse hacked alone and in company- it wouldn't leave the yard last night- threw a strop- rider had to LED round the woods to go for hack!
 
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They also said the horse hacked alone and in company- it wouldn't leave the yard last night- threw a strop- rider had to LED round the woods to go for hack!

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Many new horses can try it on napping when you take them home, can you find a rider who will ride him throgh the strop?

Was he alone or in company, he may not have the confidence to go out alone yet, again how old is he?
 
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Good lord! How scarey!

How does it work then if you sell a horse that to your knowledge IS good but there is a difference in rider skills?

I mean - most horses can take the p*ss with a more novice rider. Would this make you (as a seller) vulnerable to legal action because the person buying can't ride it?

Sorry - i know its a bit off topic and im not selling anything but Im just curious! I was always under the assumption that it was rather buyer-beware (within reason of course)

ETS just to clarify and taking slightly from what AmyMay is saying. If I was selling and the horse had never napped with me and I SAID this and said horsey then goes onto a more novice home where he naps and generally takes the p*ss - would I as a seller be in trouble?

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Not if you said that he had never napped with you, but has never been ridden by a novice, the issue being that if this has been sold as a novice horse there are certain expectations, that it will not nap as a regular habit (every horse naps at some time IMO), that it doesn't habitually buck or rear, etc. to an extent these are implied and expected in a novice horse, however to be on the safe side the buyer should ask EVERY time about each aspect of behaviour.

The vendor can always say that they don't know.....but it would reduce the pool of potential purchasers
 
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ETS just to clarify and taking slightly from what AmyMay is saying. If I was selling and the horse had never napped with me and I SAID this and said horsey then goes onto a more novice home where he naps and generally takes the p*ss - would I as a seller be in trouble?

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I'm sure not - or at least I'd be very suprised. We are all aware that there are very different capabilities out there when it comes to riding. One novice rider is not the same as another. Equally one experienced rider is not the same as another experienced rider.

I consider myslef pretty experienced - however would not put myself in the same catagory as someone like vicijp say, or PG etc.

I find it so disheartening to read these type of posts, because I genuinly believe that nine times out of ten, the purchaser is at fault and not the horse. A prime example is a post that was made a fortnight or so ago by someone who had bought a new horse and wanted to send it back because it bucked in canter. Well as soon as the poor creature had a saddle on it's back that actually fitted it was fine - and the purchaser is now happy with it. That was just down to inexperience on that purchasers part - however they were prepared to villify the horse without first investigating properly first why it was happening, or properly assessing their own capabilities.

It just goes to show - when you go to buy take someone with you who knows something about horses.

You read time and again on here how the more experienced HHO is going to look at a horse - they always take someone with them. Be it a trainer, friend, parent. They realise how important it is - why can't others?

Will people never learn??
 
Many new horses can try it on napping when you take them home, can you find a rider who will ride him throgh the strop?

I am an experienced rider and I can ride it threw the napping but if the owner can't and the vendor said it was good to hack alone and in company(its in the ad) then its not as described and not suitable.

Its a very difficult situation.
My worry is that the longer its here the more chance the vendor has of saying that we caused the problem which we most def haven't.

I have spoken to the vet that vetted it and he said that if it was just doing it with the owner then he might have said that this was the problem but if its doing it with me then there something not right. I have had to ride the nappiest of horses in my job. Many new horses can try it on napping when you take them home, can you find a rider who will ride him throgh the strop?
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Have to agree that I'd look at an allrounder as a horse I could do riding club/dressage/XC on but wouldn't expect it to be quirk free!

A Novice/Nervous riding horse I would expect to be pretty ploddy and well behaved.

Had the horse been at it's old home long? Some have serious issues settling into a new home - my mum brought a horse last year which was perfect with the owners - got her home and she just switched......mane falling out, napping, rearing all sorts.....funny old things horses.
 
I have since found out that this horse had only been with the seller for 6 weeks which sounds like they had it in to sell?Rather than the private home they said they were?
 
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