Horse + bridle = big no!

Tnavas said:
Don't be fooled by double jointed bits, the lower jaw bones are only an inch or too apart and the joints of a double jointed bit can be just over the top of the jaw bone. The bone under the bars is very narrow and sharp, and very sensitive.

Try her in a single jointed, you also need to look at saddle fit, as she may be behaving badly as her saddle doesn't fit. Have you had her jaw Xrayed. I had a mare given to me as she was I rideable with a bit but fine bit less.
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Saddle fitter came out today. Only needed a change in gullet due to being out of work (up by 1/2 size, from medium-wide to wide). Saddle is a perfect fit for her, and is correctly balanced. So this is now ruled out. Vet checks are on the schedule again, so something I will be passing onto doing again. Everything was coming back clear. The only hiccup we had was a trapped nerve in her back/near her hip some year, pushing 2 years ago, causing her to buck as when going into canter it pinched. She had a lot of physio and this has all been sorted and nothing since.
 
I can not leave a browband off. She does have sweet itch which not only affects her crest and tail, but also her face. So if I give her half a chance to itch, bridle will no doubt be off and I'm naft on a horse that likes to run full pelt and who becomes very exciteful when out riding.
 
Well you may find she improves once saddle fits - I often wonder whether mine was difficult with bitting due to saddles with which we had very many causing him issues - chicken and egg situation - sometimes they second guess that the saddle will go on which hurts after the bridle goes on or vice versa. Also, the browband won't cause the horse to get the bridle off any easier than without.

I think the 'only' needs a change in gullet on the saddle will cause the saddle not to have been a perfect fit for her in any way shape or form - but thats just my take on it - is your saddle a Wintec or similar which only expands the front half not the back?
 
NicoleandRosy said:
I can not leave a browband off. She does have sweet itch which not only affects her crest and tail, but also her face. So if I give her half a chance to itch, bridle will no doubt be off and I'm naft on a horse that likes to run full pelt and who becomes very exciteful when out riding.
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Browband only stops it slipping back, not forward so won't make much difference. Try it in an enclosed space first maybe.

If you have a horse with an itchy face popping a browband on isn't necessarily going to help...

Although beginning to feel this thread is rather odd... Problem with forelock and browband, op won't remove either from horse... Seems like the two most obvious things to try!
 
sjp1 said:
Well you may find she improves once saddle fits - I often wonder whether mine was difficult with bitting due to saddles with which we had very many causing him issues - chicken and egg situation - sometimes they second guess that the saddle will go on which hurts after the bridle goes on or vice versa. Also, the browband won't cause the horse to get the bridle off any easier than without.

I think the 'only' needs a change in gullet on the saddle will cause the saddle not to have been a perfect fit for her in any way shape or form - but thats just my take on it - is your saddle a Wintec or similar which only expands the front half not the back?
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It is a Wintec with Cair system, which the saddle fitter recommended was the best option for her. She is still very croup high, even at rising 7, and still going up due to the ID in her. She said had I put a fixed, non-changeable gullet system on her, I'd be worse off, and to wait.

She hasn't been ridden in a good... 16-18 months, so the saddle wasn't a fit due to being out of work.
 
ThursdayNext said:
Browband only stops it slipping back, not forward so won't make much difference. Try it in an enclosed space first maybe.

If you have a horse with an itchy face popping a browband on isn't necessarily going to help...

Although beginning to feel this thread is rather odd... Problem with forelock and browband, op won't remove either from horse... Seems like the two most obvious things to try!
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We HAVE tried all sorts with her bridle, nothing makes a difference. She itches around her eyes, but tends to catch the bridle whilst doing so. She's a bloody magician getting things off, including fly masks that are done up to high heavens AND tied up underneath fly rugs with ear holes and the fly masks are still in tact and not a speck of damage.. She's good.. No doubt it'll be off too.

As I said.. we've tried removing parts, to re-attaching the bridle onto her in stages. Nothing makes a difference. She's now starting to dart away putting a fly mask on. And throw her head about awfully bad in the field, mainly upright. So I have a feeling this is a part of the issue. There is nothing 'odd' to this post, either.
 
ThursdayNext said:
Browband only stops it slipping back, not forward so won't make much difference. Try it in an enclosed space first maybe.

If you have a horse with an itchy face popping a browband on isn't necessarily going to help...

Although beginning to feel this thread is rather odd... Problem with forelock and browband, op won't remove either from horse... Seems like the two most obvious things to try!
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How can I remove her forelock if I can't get near it? Makes sense...
 
NicoleandRosy said:
We HAVE tried all sorts with her bridle, nothing makes a difference. She itches around her eyes, but tends to catch the bridle whilst doing so. She's a bloody magician getting things off, including fly masks that are done up to high heavens AND tied up underneath fly rugs with ear holes and the fly masks are still in tact and not a speck of damage.. She's good.. No doubt it'll be off too.

As I said.. we've tried removing parts, to re-attaching the bridle onto her in stages. Nothing makes a difference. She's now starting to dart away putting a fly mask on. And throw her head about awfully bad in the field, mainly upright. So I have a feeling this is a part of the issue. There is nothing 'odd' to this post, either.
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This sounds like a possible extreme manifestation of headshaking. I'd be chatting with your vet about that possibility
 
Have you tried using one of those full ear fly fringes underneath the bridle? Over the forelock so you wouldn't have to pull it out?

This bridle has a press stud brow band which might suit.

http://www.pioneerendurance.com/bri...dles/pioneer-head-shy-bridle.htm#.V15Ys6VLzHg

I had a horse who was weird around her ears and to bridle but she was also odd in general and was given up on.

Does she have swelling in the hollows above her eyes?
 
OP, I think it is the drip feed of info that made it come across as odd.

E.g. Before you said you didn't want to hog, now that you can't get closer enough to trim forelock. Previously that you hadn't tried a bridle without the browband because you were worried about it coming off, now that you have tried 'all sorts'. Previously it was only the brow band she reacted to, now she is generally itchy and reacts to other things on her face too.

It makes it sound as though story is changing / being drawn out like a mystery when in fact you could just be responding to all the many ideas on your very popular thread!

Edited for terrible spelling!
 
If she hasn't been ridden in 16_18 months why are you persisting? If she had just been given time off she may have 'forgotten'.

It sounds to me like Tmj pain. The other option is that the owner is the issue and not the horse - reading between the lines it sounds like she has been babied and allowed to get away with murder. If you are confident that you have ruled out pain maybe it just needs another person who isn't so invested to help her get over herself.
 
NicoleandRosy said:
I'm running out of ideas. Randomly, a year ago, my mare point blank refused her bridle, to the point she RAN from it. Teeth are fine, the only wolf tooth has been removed. No cuts, ulceration etc. Physio has been done on all her back/neck/head, vets have checked - no breaks, fractures, no injury, scars etc. This has gone from nothing to a hugeeee dilemma out of the blue.

Before, if she saw her tack, she was barging the door and raring to go.. Now, she sees her bridle she'll swing her bum around and head up as far as it goes or straight into a corner. Fine to put it on, as soon as you pop over ears, she livens up. All fine.. Try and pull her forelock through the headband.. Not a bloody chance in hell! She will shake, spin and do anything she can to get you off that area.

I have tried different bridles, I now have bought a bridle with fastenings on both sides just in case "balance" was off. And it was designed by a chiropractor who I spoke to prior to purchase. Still the same. I have tried normal, "thin" bridles, comfort padded bridles, no luck. Head collar is fine to go on. Can fuss with mane/poll when in the field and she'll stand like a lemon. She only has a full cheek snaffle, copper, with a lozenge, so nothing with a single joint that could possibly cause mouth injury. Bit fits perfectly fine.

She has been cleared by every one who has seen her - dentist/vet/physio and ruled as nothing wrong!! :(

Anyone shed some light? I now have a bridle set in the hope the fluffy sheepskin will knock it out somewhat, but very little hope!
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May not help at all but my boy had a right time of it - it turned out that he had a shard of wolf tooth still embedded in his gum and it was causing great discomfort, despite going through vet/dentist/physio checks - it remained undiagnosed until (luckily for us) it worked its way to the top and eventually out of the gum (thank god as it would have been a pretty expensive cost to dig it out!) Anyway, through the time this was going on he obviously became difficult to bit even before we had identified why, He could not stand too much movement in his mouth. Through trial and error I eventually found a bit that he could deal with -a bomber bit. Some bits were better than others, but the loose ring neue schule that he was so comfortable with for the best part of 18 months started to cause exactly the same reaction - I would only have to walk into the stable with the bridle and he ran across to the corner...

Iits a long shot to say this is the same as what is going on with your mare - but it is possible, two dentists and a vet saw him and were unable to diagnose the issue because at that time the shard was too deep in the gum and undetectable - Have you tried changing the bit? I found that Beast was actually more comfortable in a nutcracker action (which I am not a fan of) he hated anything loose ring and double jointed, but the best was this bit was this one
http://www.horsebitbank.com/portuguese-2-ring-happy-tongue-652.phtml

- happy tounge by bomber bits - one straight mouth piece with a port for extra tongue space... it also comes with a strap that fastens under the chin in line with the noseband and provides greater stability in the mouth...

I would also say that ben was going fine for about 18 months after his wolf teeth extraction before this became an issue. Does she have wolf teeth? If they have been removed - can you get an xray of the jaw... have you tried a bitless bridle to see if it is the bridle in general or the bit?
 
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Queenbee, interesting about your comment that your horse didn't like the double jointed bit. Depending on the length of the middle part, the joints can bump against the bars. It could be that your bit was doing just this.
 
ihatework said:
This sounds like a possible extreme manifestation of headshaking. I'd be chatting with your vet about that possibility
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I'd agree given that she already has one sensitivity. I have known sweetitch horse's to be headshakers too/helped by a nose net.

OP I don't think you have said if you put headcollar on and pretend to pull forelock through is she ok? Is she the same if you tie a bit to the headcollar.

I am a bit confused because you have said you could plait /cut off forelock but then later said you can't do that as you can' get near it.
 
Can you undo the bridle at the cheekpiece, put bit in, drop headpiece over her ears,then fasten it? I do that with my TB, he has a very pronounced poll bone and doesnt like the bridle being pushed over it. I also give him a titbit as he takes the bit.
 
Flame_ said:
Have you tried using one of those full ear fly fringes underneath the bridle? Over the forelock so you wouldn't have to pull it out?

This bridle has a press stud brow band which might suit.

http://www.pioneerendurance.com/bri...dles/pioneer-head-shy-bridle.htm#.V15Ys6VLzHg

I had a horse who was weird around her ears and to bridle but she was also odd in general and was given up on.

Does she have swelling in the hollows above her eyes?
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Yes, put one on her the other day to try for size, took me 5 minutes to put it on with numerous head lifts, and circling the stable. And that was a battle without even attempting the bridle. She's booked in to have her teeth looked at next, so hoping someone may be pulled up from there. Otherwise my options are getting smaller. No swelling however.

She's fine any other time. I've watched her a few times in the field, and she's getting seriously miffed with the flies, and this results in bouncing her head upwards repeatedly if I don't put a fly mask on (not that she keeps it on!!) But wondering if this is contributing towards the issue.
 
ester said:
I'd agree given that she already has one sensitivity. I have known sweetitch horse's to be headshakers too/helped by a nose net.

OP I don't think you have said if you put headcollar on and pretend to pull forelock through is she ok? Is she the same if you tie a bit to the headcollar.

I am a bit confused because you have said you could plait /cut off forelock but then later said you can't do that as you can' get near it.
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Mane is fine to touch in the field, and stable. If she sees tack, then I won't get near her forelock. She has to be approach 'right', and not directly for me to touch her forelock. As long as I'm not touching it for bridling purposes it's fine. But she will only allow brief contact before she darts it. Has now started to dart off when she sees a fly mask or attempting to put one on. I won't get anywhere near her face to cut it off or plait. But depending on how she "feels" she may allow us to touch it one minute and ruffle her forelock, the next will be turning and bolting the other way. She's a strange one!

Not okay to pull forelock through a headcollar, but is FAR better to put a head collar on (and more willing). A bridle she just runs from or repeatedly box walks/circles to get away. Nose net is worth a shot, something we haven't tried yet!
 
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stormox said:
Can you undo the bridle at the cheekpiece, put bit in, drop headpiece over her ears,then fasten it? I do that with my TB, he has a very pronounced poll bone and doesnt like the bridle being pushed over it. I also give him a titbit as he takes the bit.
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Tried. Hence why I bought a bridle that allows the cheek pieces to be undone on both sides. No change. Trying to avoid treats, she is food aggressive, so not the best decision as she'll be more pushy over the food than anything. x
 
If she was mine,I would have a headcollar on, one that unbuckles at nose and usual place, tie her up, or hold her, so she couldnt 'circle the stable', drop the headpiece and browband over her ears, from high up so it just drops on no pressure, then put bit in and buckle up. Then take headcollar off from under bridle. I think she could be messing you about a bit, and you are being defeatist and letting her.
 
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