Horse can't keep shoes on

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saddlesore

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Hey guys,

I'll try and keep this short! Had my boy 4 1/2 years, no feet issues. The past year his feet have been a nightmare :( He loses shoes all the time and I got his feet x-rayed approx 1 year ago now and he has very thin soles. Struggled with keeping him in loads last winter and took his hind shoes off in Spring. He came around 95% on them without boots, still a bit footy over really rough ground and I didn't feel he was pushing forward in trot enough, but basically ok. I then took his fronts off as he was still losing them and pulling hoof wall off with the shoe. He really struggled, even with boots on, and I gave in and put shoes back on.

Coming into winter I got a young sharer so I put a full set of shoes back on because I was only up 3 or 4 days a week and so wouldn't be able to keep an eye on them. He felt great and I was happy that the rest had done his feet good. However, he is now losing shoes constantly again, at least one a week. Three in 6 days last week and I now don't know what to do.

Farrier says soles are too thin to take shoes off atm :( I should add that he isn't charging me for all these lost shoes so he isn't on a money making racket ha ha.

He is overweight no matter how hard I try, and he is really fussy about what he will eat supplement wise for his feet.

I'm at a total loss. I really hope someone can offer me some advice? :(:(
 
I'm sure someone will come along with a detailed answer but this is the problem I had with mine for a long time. The way to thicker soles is by good diet and stimulation from boots and pads....and patience. He needs the time to grow the new hooves so if he struggles at first keep him to surfaces he finds okay and it will come better in time. I could flex the soles on the front hooves of mine with my fingers when we started and now he has better feet than he's ever had in his life. He can't grow thicker soles when the shoes are stopping them from getting any stimulation.
 
I had this problem last winter which resulted in my boy having time off due to being foot sore etc. This lasted all summer until I found shoesecure.Since then he has not lost a shoe and his feet are finally getting stronger.They are a bit fiddly to start with but I can get them on in seconds!
 
Thin soles on an extremely good doer? I would test him for Cushings and for Insulin Resistance.

Do you soak his hay/haylage? I think you probably should. And what else does he eat, other than hay/haylage?
 
cptrayes said:
Thin soles on an extremely good doer? I would test him for Cushings and for Insulin Resistance.

Do you soak his hay/haylage? I think you probably should. And what else does he eat, other than hay/haylage?
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Second this and especially looking at reducing sugars as much as you can. A good balancer and gut support will help too.

My feeling is you should perhaps consider a rehab period and getting him comfortable so he can have a program of gradually increasing exercize for stimulation. Check for thrush too and treat if needed. Pads and boots will be needed. I have read that the 4lb EPS pads fit in boots such as cavallos and provide a good comfort level for many such horses. I used the pads taped on when my pony has had a acute laminitis and they do give her a lot of comfort.
These are the pads, they're cut to shape a little larger than the hoof imprint when taping on. http://www.equinepodiatrysupplies.co.uk/Pads/EPS-4-lb-Pads
Pads and boots protect and support the whole sole.

Here's a couple of videos about taping on these pads. A short overview and a longer one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW8FUGrElg8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzUeYjYe5yE

The things against using the shoes imo are... a) they wont stay on in your horses case. b) they restrict circulation so restrict nutrients getting to the hoof for healing and c) They provide peripheral loading so the weight of the horse is bearing down on the sole. Support shoes might be an option but if they wont stay on...

Hope that doesn't sound like a lecture, just trying to give you some ideas (and my personal take) to help you decide which way to go. x
 
Besides the thin soles,has anything else changed to make your horse Loose the shoes?
By that,I mean have you changed yards,or field companions?
I mention this,as one of mine was a so and so to keep shoes on. Once separated from his brother,we had no further issues,so it appeared the way the two horses acted when turned out was a Contributing factor.
Same horse was totally useless with four legs,had not a clue where they all were! To the extent that one day,had him shod,and the second the farrier had driven out of the yard,in front of me and still tied up,he promptly stood on his own foot,scraping the hoof as he did So and took the shoe clean off!!
 
Thanks guys, very much appreciated!

Bit more info for those who asked. Yes he is a very good doer :o He wasn't at his past yard but since moving 3 1/2 years ago he has been on the round side all year round.......

Diet wise he gets haulage, hifi light and a small handful of speed beet to carry his supplements which are horse first relax me and NAF pink powder. I feed that as its very small amounts and he will eat it.

He largely lives out, apart from when shoes are lost :cool:

The boots I have are old macs, I don't have pads though.

Thanks again for your thoughts! Would you take them off atm even though they are so thin?
 
saddlesore said:
Thanks guys, very much appreciated!

Bit more info for those who asked. Yes he is a very good doer :o He wasn't at his past yard but since moving 3 1/2 years ago he has been on the round side all year round.......

Diet wise he gets haulage, hifi light and a small handful of speed beet to carry his supplements which are horse first relax me and NAF pink powder. I feed that as its very small amounts and he will eat it.

He largely lives out, apart from when shoes are lost :cool:

The boots I have are old macs, I don't have pads though.

Thanks again for your thoughts! Would you take them off atm even though they are so thin?
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Where are his minerals and vitamins, sounds as tho you are proving supplements instead of of an all round mineral and vitamin mix which is balanced.
To accelerate the cure, I suggest pro hoof.
 
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Sounds like the grass at this place is a big factor. Also was he having haylage before?

This is what I would do to start with but realize you are at livery and I'm at home.
I'm not a diet expert but I would restrict grass, soak haylage or switch to soaked hay if possible or I believe the Marksway High Fibre one suits a lot of horses and it is guaranteed low sugar and starch. I would also stop the alfalfa(Hifi) and switch the pink powder to something like Pro Hoof or Pro Balance from Progressive Earth on ebay in speedibeet along with extra salt and micronised linseed (a mug daily).
Provide a good deep bed in the stable of shavings preferably and turn out for at least part of the time in a grass free area, if you have access to one, rather than out 24/7. So reduce turnout on grass if you can.

My belief is thin soles are best helped with shoes off and pads and boots and diet along with time to grow thicker. I've searched for some posts, by an experienced person, on another forum you might find helpful about boots and pads for when out of field and stable. Old Mac G2's it seems are suitable to those pads but I think you will need pads in them anyway to start with. Pads mould to the sole and offer more support than plain boots.
http://ihdg.proboards.com/index.cgi

Perhaps also join phoenixhorse forum and ask for advice on there.

What options/plan has your Farrier suggested for helping him grow thicker soles? I would have a good chat with him about his approach and suggestions. So you can weigh things up carefully.

You do need to be armed with a plan and the pads/boots if you decide to remove his shoes and improvements wont be overnight. Changing his diet will be a big help anyway so that is worth doing imo along with considering blood tests for IR and Cushings.
Don't rush into removing shoes, you need to feel that is the right option for him.
 
He wont eat pro hoof or linseed- i've tried him on both :( He is ridiculously fussy. Blood testing sounds like a good idea. What about something like blue chip balancer? Would that help? The powdered supplements usually just means he leaves his feed.

Would trying even harder to reduce his weight help with losing shoes?
 
I am surprised he wont eat linseed but there's always one. lol The Pro Hoof and similar ones do sometimes take a while of slowly increasing them for some horses to eat them as well as adding various herbs like mint. If he really, really wont then this might be worth a try. The trouble with pellets is they are held together often by molasses or similar. http://www.totally-tack.co.uk/acatalog/equimins_advance_feed_balancer_pellets.html

Reducing his weight will involve the diet changes mentioned and getting weight down is always a good move. Unfortunately grass and hay can be high in sugars especially so unless you feed a low sugar/starch forage getting weight off can be an uphill struggle especially with recent weather when exercize is reduced. x
 
Have you tried introducing pro hoof very very gradually? Literally a quarter of a teaspoon to begin with and build up slowly. His soles will not improve without a proper balancer. Also you need to get him off the grass when sugars are high. I use the laminitis trust app to help me judge this
 
I am having fairly similar problems with mine losing shoes on the front feet which suffered mild laminitis last spring. Had cushings and ems tests, both negative, he was overweight though. Took ages for him to come sound enough to be shod (only in front, he was bare behind). Then he pulled a shoe off taking half the hoof with it - farrier said lami has weakened the feet. Again, took ages to come sound and he still pulls his shoes off. Farrier had to put back shoes back on as the heels had dropped due to him leaning back with the lami.
He's had those clear plastic pads on his front feet since we moved yards because I put him on haylage - BIG mistake. It's acidic and releases toxins when digested - causing a lami flareup. SInce then horse has been on hay, fast fibre and chaff. He's lost tons of weight but feet are so battered with pulling off shoes that farrier has put him in hoofboots until the feet grow back. He is sound in them on roads and rough tracks. Once feet are grown the farrier is going to use 'light steels'? Thankfully as horse is now thin he can get a decent feed though I am VERY careful what I give him. Currently a full daily feed of mollichaff calmer and high fibre cubes with rosehip added. If that doesn't work there is a supplement my farrier recommends called Better4hooves that he says we will try.

So could you try changing from hay to haylage? Getting the weight off will help too, Fast fibre worked brilliantly for my boy.
Also, are you using overreach boots to turn out? They work quite well for my horse.
 
Hey guys, thanks again. Would soaked haylage be ok? The yard provide that and there is no storage space for me to keep hay :( I do turn out in over reach boots but they don't seem to help *sigh*. Proper nightmare.
 
If yr farrier is happy for you to get involved ask him to make the feet shorter this willenable the nails to be put higher up in the hoof wall, better grip, if the feet are too long then the nails are being put too low down in the flare which is soft and not thick enough for strength. Look at how he is losing the shoes is it the hinds striking in to the back of the fronts then ge the hinds trimmed shorter. If your farrier will jnot take these comments as suggestions obviously involving himfor him knowledge, sackp himand find another who is prepared to work with you. You should also adjust diet but one will not work without the other, and shoes should stay on for 6 weeks between shoeings.

In summer when the feet become dry and it seems the shoe is loose cold hose the foot to put back the moisture which will make the clenches tight again.
 
Noblestead heels would have collapsed if they were too long in the first place, so they buckle with the weight, farriers also like to make excuses sorry, keep toes short and heels aligned.

Never soak haylage OP
 
If the shoes wont stay on take them off before he rips a massive chunk of hoof of and does really bad damage that will take forever to grow out.

Boots to protect and stimulate the sole to grow better whilst you're riding.

Foodwise steer clear of Blue Chip et al - the reason horses will eat that is because it has a sneeze of minerals in and lots of molasses, brewers grains and other high sugar nasties - totally defeating the point of feeding it.

Try fast fibre, 100 grams and slowly introduce the Pro Hoof. Get tough and leave him with that and nothing else in the stable - he'l eat it eventually. Spearmint was what got mine into eating it - link below.

http://www.naturalhorsesupplies.co.uk/?p=product&key=0802240566

Id want him off the haylege and onto soaked hay Im afraid. Have a serious chat to the YO about his health - if not look to move elsewhere.
 
Could you take some photos of your horse's hooves please?

For side and front shots you will need to get the camera right down to hoof level (almost putting the camera on the ground) to take a good photo. Some shots of his soles would be helpful too.
 
Saddlesore I soaked haylage for my fatty ( was advised to by vet ) he's still here ! So I would definatly start soaking . Try him on straw chop Honeychop make a plain chopped oat straw which you can use as a partial forage replacer Halleys make one too.
You must get his wieght down to a good level it makes a huge difference , when a horses walls can't hang onto shoes the only way forward is to improve the feet in your horses case this means fixing the diet and the wieght protecting the feet ( with boots and pads ) .
I would try again with pro hoof mix it a tiny bit at the time with the speedibeet .
 
saddlesore said:
Fast fibre he actually will eat lol but it's just to carry the supplements isn't it? It isn't balanced on its own? Maybe a daft question, but why can't you soak haylage?
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Yep the FF is just to carry the supps.

You can only 'balance' if you have forage analysis done so you know exactly what mineral levels you are making up to. So off the shelf balancers arent all they make out they are.

You can soak haylege however it is higher in acidity than hay, due to the fermenting process when its made, and as yours sounds like hes compromised somewhere Id want hay as its more neutral for his gut.
 
YorksG said:
One of ours was very, very footsore when we fed pink powder, we stopped the pink powder and she improved immensley.
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That is very interesting! I put him on it coming into the winter because I feed him so little and its a supplement that he will eat but he has been losing more shoes recently. I put it down to the weather but perhaps that isn't helping either?

Hay really isn't an option sadly as I don't have any storage for it, but soaking it isn't a problem. Would people recommend plain chop, speed beet and the fast fire then? I don't like to give him very much! :eek:
 
saddlesore said:
Fast fibre he actually will eat lol but it's just to carry the supplements isn't it? It isn't balanced on its own? Maybe a daft question, but why can't you soak haylage?
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You can. There is no problem with soaking haylage whatsoever. I do it every year except in winter and lots of other people on this board soak haylage.
 
Have you tried using any of the NAF hoof oils hoof creams ? such really helped my horse get stronger feet kevin bacon is really good too maybe if his feet are stronger the shoes might have a better chance of staying on.


Good luck :)
 
Just use the FF and scrap the chop and speedibeet.

Dont bother with hoof creams oils etc - the hoof is built from diet and environment not formaldehyde labelled as hoof oil :p
 
i have my youngster bare foot and have just bought hoof boots for her as she is with a friend and has gone from doing nothing to 5-6 days a week doing roadwork, her feet are good but she just needs a bit of help in the transition period. my daughters mare has fronts and both myself and the farrier are desperate to give her a break from the shoes to allow her heels to expand, my daughter is not keen.

my point is that however you choose to keep your horses feet its not the horse that cant keep the shoes on its your farrier-personally i would go for the long haul and take shoes off and as advised feed soaked hay, a good supplement and keep on a low sugar diet, i would change farrier if you decide to keep shoes on
 
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