Horse collapsing whilst being tacked- video

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ribena73

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I've posted a couple of times about my boy who has been collapsing whilst having the girth done up. My vet thought he had neurological symptoms and thought it was due to kissing spines or articular facet problems. We've just come back from three days at vets for bone scan and x rays and nothing conclusive has come out of it. So the plan is to do a bute trial for 10 days to see if it is pain related as then it should go away. Before we started the trial the vet wanted a video of the collapse, so I took one this morning on my phone. I've uploaded it to youtube and so would appreciate any thoughts on what might be going on.

Saddle OK, and this only happens at girthing/tightening girth, not happened whilst ridden.....

The url is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Um_cIupDg
 
Gosh! Never seen anything like this before - what a distressing problem for you both
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I've certainly heard of horses collapsing when saddling as a result of being cold backed?
 
A friends horse used to do something (by all accounts) similar a couple of years ago (I never saw it but she has described it) and she went off for alot of test etc. Shall ask her tonight what they found. Strangely enough L treated her too
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Mare is ok now
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has he always done it?
does he do it when you tighten it also?
might be a daft question - but he didn't learn it did he? (very silly suggesting but hey...differential diagnosis and all!)
He looks well so I guess you still work him?
 
Girth Bind, have seen it before, the horse has loads of nerves behing their elbows some are very very sensitive and girthing up causes the nerves to go into overdrive.
 
hmm, doesn't look like the vids i've seen before where a horse collapsed on girth being tightened, those were narcolepsy i think, and looked as if the horse couldn't control its movements.
your boy looks as if it is deliberate, a way to release pressure on the girth area maybe? i'd try girthing up very slowly, not tight at all to begin with, and i'd try one of the new Cair padded girths or similar. have you tried keeping girth looseish until you are on (if horse is trustworthy and not a bucker) and then tightening it a hole at a time?
 
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might be a daft question - but he didn't learn it did he? (very silly suggesting but hey...differential diagnosis and all!)

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Exactly the same question crossed my mind too.
 
The "collapse" in this video is milder than what he has done before- in the past his legs wobble (and he stays in one place) and then he drops to the floor- he's also gone bum first in the past (like a dog sitting), but this time he'd just dropped to his knees. The video doesn't show it clearly but the movements just prior to him going down are wobbly leg movements
 
This happens to a horse up our yard, and it looks exactly the same, the horse at our yard isnt collapsing (i dont think yours is either), he is doing it on purpose. He does it to stretch, if we do the girth up and pull each front leg out as far as we can straight after we have done the girth up, he doesnt do it. Maybe worth a try for your one??
 
He's only started to do it over the past few weeks, and it's becoming more consistent now. The first few times did seem to be involuntary, this time did look a bit like to "chose" to lie down, but then if he is in pain I guess that's not unlikely? As for doing the girth up slowly, this is the second half of the video made this morning. He had the saddle on, done up loosely for a few minutes, and we were about to give up on him doing it, then I thought I've have one last go at hoiking up his girth and down he went.

Interesting Kerrili that you mentioned narcolepsy- this is one of the possibilities the vet is thinking about. From how he moves about just before he goes down in this video I'm not convinced though....
Yes I still work him (lunge now though until we come to the bottom of this), I've worked hard to get him into this shape so don't want him to lose it!
 
Have you tryed doing the girth up very slowly and walking him, then do it up some more etc?

Or have you tryed doing it in a school? Does he do this just in his stable or anywhere?
 
Like Kerilli mentioned in her post I really think your horse is suffering from Narcolepsy. As you can see from reading the link attached horses tend to fall onto their knees and narcolepsy can happen around everyday things like grooming or tacking up. Has your vet mentioned narcolepsy to you previously? If you read all the symptoms in the article you may have more of an idea if that sounds like your horse. It might be worth mentioning to your vet especially if your horse could be one of the breeds mentioned.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/103928.html
 
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From how he moves about just before he goes down in this video I'm not convinced though....

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Is he 'blank' or just shifting his weight. I did notice that when he first moved he slightly hopped(???)
 
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This happens to a horse up our yard, and it looks exactly the same, the horse at our yard isnt collapsing (i dont think yours is either), he is doing it on purpose. He does it to stretch, if we do the girth up and pull each front leg out as far as we can straight after we have done the girth up, he doesnt do it. Maybe worth a try for your one??

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That's interesting- the only time he's not done it recently is when I've tacked him up after lunging him- I guess he's stretched himself then? Do you do the girth up tight or just loose, then stretch, then tighten? He has built up a lot of muscle the past few months since i've had him, especially across his back, as he's been doing a lot more work, do you think that he maybe needs a bit of a stretch to loosen up across his back?
 
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Is he 'blank' or just shifting his weight. I did notice that when he first moved he slightly hopped(???)

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It's difficult to describe, it wasn't normal movement, he kind of wobbled about!
 
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Or have you tryed doing it in a school? Does he do this just in his stable or anywhere?

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On only been doing it in the stable, not tried anywhere else. After the bute trial, if there is improvement the next step I think is to try tacking him up in different environments to see is he is simply "falling asleep". At the moment I think we want to eliminate one thing at a time, pain being the easiest/ most obvious I guess?
 
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Is he 'blank' or just shifting his weight. I did notice that when he first moved he slightly hopped(???)

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It's difficult to describe, it wasn't normal movement, he kind of wobbled about!

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We have the same vet don't we??? Bushy's??? I'm seeing Lee tonight.


Back to topic. I never tighten a girth fully up - just enough to be able to get on safely - then walk the horse, then tighten.....

Not sure if this is any help at all.
 
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This happens to a horse up our yard, and it looks exactly the same, the horse at our yard isnt collapsing (i dont think yours is either), he is doing it on purpose. He does it to stretch, if we do the girth up and pull each front leg out as far as we can straight after we have done the girth up, he doesnt do it. Maybe worth a try for your one??

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That's interesting- the only time he's not done it recently is when I've tacked him up after lunging him- I guess he's stretched himself then? Do you do the girth up tight or just loose, then stretch, then tighten? He has built up a lot of muscle the past few months since i've had him, especially across his back, as he's been doing a lot more work, do you think that he maybe needs a bit of a stretch to loosen up across his back?

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Step by step:

I groom him as normal, Put on the saddlecloth and saddle and leave it for a min (let the pad warm his back up abit), put on his bridle and boots, then do the girth as i would a normal horse, then straight away go to the front and stretch each leg out, as far as i can, this seems to stretch behind the girth and across his back and he doesnt fall down. Its defintley worth a try with your boy....

This horse has done this since he was a youngster, he is now 22 and still in full work (dressage) doing this exercise with him is the only thing that stops him falling. Hope this helps x
 
Amymay- yes we have the same vet- Lee's x rayed him and done the tests at home, Alex took over for his few days in horsepital. I've emailed her the video so she can see, and I think she'll be showing the other vets in the practice too so Lee may well have seen it too by the time he gets to you tonight!

Charlie55- I will try the slowly slowly method followed by the stretch to see if it makes any difference, fingers crossed its the same thing!

SO glad I spent all morning trying to work out how to get video off my phone and onto youtube, thanks for the advice guys, will keep you posted....
 
I knew a thoroughbred who did something very similar twice, and knew it as girth bind due to the nerves as scally said. Horse was purchased a sheepskin girth sleeve and an elasticated leather girth that could be done up very loosely to start and tightened slowly and never had the problem again.
 
Would tend to agree with the girth bind. Cold back (or similar) often causes a much more violent reaction but your boy seems quite calm (and almost calculated) about the whole thing.

Please don't take this the wrong way and I am in no way having a go but you seem to do the girth up very quickly and this may be exacerbating the underlying problem.The area around the girth is incredibly sensitive and even the most placid horses don't like girths being tightened very quickly. Imagine if someone put a belt round your stomach and suddenly pulled it very tight....

I would try taking your boy back to basics to try and break the mental cycle, this can be easily done when you are grooming etc - start with playing around with an elastic surcingle and saddle pad, mimics the saddle and girth but on a much milder scale, maybe give him a quick lunge. Then saddle with surcingle, gently going up a hole and then go back to girthing up properly again.

If nec, buy a longer (flexible/padded) girth and really take your time doing it up one hole at a time. If you have a sand school it may also be worth leading him round whilst you do the girth up as it can sometimes provide a good distraction-he may now be associating his stable with the behaviour he is exhibiting -although I appreciate exactly why you are tacking up in stable when he goes down like that!
 
I had a mare that used to do a very similar thing, although it was her back end that went down and she'd almost sit down. I'm not sure what started it off, but she almost got into a habit of doing it and it was actually made worse by trying to pull her leg out to stretch the girth area. As Kerilli has said, I used to place the saddle on do the girth up very loosely (so you could see daylight) first of all. Then I would lead her out of the stable and maybe go about 20 or 30 yards, then do the girth up a bit more. Then go another 20 or 30 yards to the mounting block and get on, still with a fairly loose girth, then I'd pull it up another hole or 2 when we had moved off. Never had a problem after that and she got out of the habit of doing it eventually.
 
Scally/Ester- the vet did say he was very sensitive under the girth area- I will look into getting a grith sleeve and elasticated leather girth to see if that helps, thanks.
 
Isnt it normal practice to stretch the legs out after doing the girth up anyway?? I was always taught that this was because of the neve endings and to also prevent rubbing and pinching.

OP have you tried a fleece girth sleeve? It does indeed appear that he's doing it purposley though you say that's not his normal movement so hard to judge.

I would be interested to see what the vets say and also what tacking up in other places does.
 
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Isnt it normal practice to stretch the legs out after doing the girth up anyway??

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Not something I've ever done - so i'd say no.
 
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Please don't take this the wrong way and I am in no way having a go but you seem to do the girth up very quickly and this may be exacerbating the underlying problem.The area around the girth is incredibly sensitive and even the most placid horses don't like girths being tightened very quickly. Imagine if someone put a belt round your stomach and suddenly pulled it very tight....!

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He'd had the saddle on done up loosely for a few minutes, and I was thinking of taking it off him as he wasn't going to go down, but then thought I'd do it up tightly one last time before "giving up", so it wasn't tightened quickly at all.

Also, the last time he went down the girth was on the end holes both sides and I could fit two hands under it, he then went down when I put my hand under the girth to attach side reins, so the only pressure then was from what my hand made as it slipped the reins underneath. Not sure this makes a difference to any of the girth bind suggestions??
 
very variable, I do it but know many who don't.

Mums mare also backed up on me once and ended up down in her stable due to me tightening the girth too quick we have to be very careful with her now and she is fine.
 
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