Horse collapsing whilst being tacked- video

[ QUOTE ]
QR

OP, when this happens, do you normally remove the saddle and not ride, or do you wait until he is up and then ride?

[/ QUOTE ]

Recently I've removed the saddle and not ridden as I wasn't sure what was going on. Before that he was ridden once after he did it (was fine but a bit faffy with his head), and other times I lunged him (hard!) so he still did work (and was fine on the lunge, just a bit stiff to start but am thinking now that might be a separate issue)

Re the roller- when at the vets they tried a roller and it didn't happen, although we also tried with his saddle and it didn't happen either- hence the video request!

I've had so much good advice on this, I want to thank you all. He's on the 10 day bute trial now that my vet wanted to see if it's pain related, so am reluctant to change anything else like girth, moving between tightening etc so that I'm not introducing too many variables at once. I'll keep tacking him every day and see what happens, and if he continues to fall over the weekend when the bute should have kicked in will start trying some of the things you guys have suggested. Thanks again

Row x
 
Can I please ask one more question to those of you who've had/ known horses that do this? Is it something they've always done or is it something that just started all of a sudden? He's had the same saddle for two years, same girth since Feb, the only thing that has changed is that he's been doing a lot more work and has built up muscle across his back. It's a wintec saddle and has had one change of gullet already but will get measurer out and see if he needs another change.
 
Why don't you go on You Tube and see if anyone has posted a video of an equine with narcolepsy to compare. Maybe you could even find one that has narcolepsy patterns when tacked up. There is a photo in this months Horse or Horse & Rider (sorry read both so not sure) of a horse in a stable on its knees, head bowed to the side that had narcolepsy although the owner doesn't seem to realise this is what it has. Does your horse only ever drop down when tacked up? Have you tried just placed the saddle on his back without the girth to see what happens. Wintecs can be a bit dodgy, I'd ask the opinion of a qualified saddle fitter, maybe see what they say. Trouble is most of them if they are not reputable will say buy a new saddle from them!
 
Ribena,

Saw Lee last night - and he had a physio with him. Absolutely no idea at all whether it's worth a consultation from her as well??? I can't remember her name, but Karen in the office will now.....
 
Applecart- so far it is only when the saddle is on his back and the girth is tightened. I will have a look on you tube at horses with narcolepsy to see if there is any similarities, thanks hadn;t thought of that. Will also have a look in those magazines out of interest.

Amymay- I have been wondering about a physio and/ or chiropractor, but given the lack of evidence of bony problems in tghe x rays I was leaning more towards the physio. I have Alex coming out next week to see Ronan so will ask her about getting a physio. Lee did actually say that he may need some simple physio exercises before and after ridden so that might be worth following up. Completely separate topic but how is Thumper now?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Completely separate topic but how is Thumper now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Big thumbs up last night - so can start working the fat bloater again
smile.gif



Will be interesting to follow the thoughts of physio......
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Completely separate topic but how is Thumper now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Big thumbs up last night - so can start working the fat bloater again
smile.gif



Will be interesting to follow the thoughts of physio......

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad all is well with him
grin.gif
 
NO THEY DO NOT GO DOWN WITH A BANG AND SLEEP AS YOU WILL SEE FROM THIS YOU TUBE LINK, ONE OF MANY ON YOU TUBE SHOWING HORSES GRADUALLY SINKING TO THE GROUND. THE HORSE IN THE LINK IS ALREADY TACKED UP AND PER THE LINK ON MY PREVIOUS REPLY WHICH CATERGORICALLY STATES HORSES CAN GO TO SLEEP DOING ROUTINE TASKS LIKE BEING GROOMED/TACKED UP. Apologies for replying in bold but a)I wanted the OP to see this link, and b) I do wish people would not make outlandish remarks when they do not know their facts!!!! Exactly how many narcoleptic horses do you know Suzie Sparkle! As for people suggesting that the horse is doing this in order to get praise it is like suggesting a horse 'pretends' to be lame in order to bunk off being ridden. Sorry but horses thought processes are not like that, they do not have that thought capacity. If I was rich I would stake £100 on the fact your horse has narcolepsy, however I am poor and about to lose my job so I am unable to wager, but I am 110% positive after looking at the You Tube video's that that is what your boy has. Good luck x
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sThUgIYNezw
 
Applecart- thanks for that, have had a look at that video and it does look very similar. I'll stick his saddle on tonight and try to keep him stimulated to see if that makes a difference.
 
Apparently you can clap your hands in front of their faces and they do not react when they are in the state of narcolepsy, it is only before, but how you prevent something nodding off I am really not sure. If its somekind of neuro condition (which narcolepsy is) I don't really think any amount of stimulation would work, but I am not sure tbh. See how you get on, and good luck. I am sure there is something that can be done, but I am puzzled that your vet doesn't seem to think it could be. Not on forum until Tuesday lunchtime now, but would love to know how you get on x
 
good grief, i have never seen anything like that. I knew he was doing it but it is really weird to see it on film. i ama also amazed at the others who said they have or know of a horse with the same sort of thing.
No advice to give, but just want to say good luck in geting it sorted. I hope it is aomething as simple as a different girth or a sheepskin sleeve.

He is a beautiful boy, it must be such a worry.
 
One of the horses at our yard was throwing himself on the floor, so we used a polypad, and it now seems to have stopped him.
 
There is an interesting article by a saddler in Essex rider this month, about a horse who sounds very like yours. Assuming its not about your horse and you've not seen it it might be worth a look. The basic conclusion is the horse doesn't like the rider getting on in a 'thumpy' way, and although not in much physical pain from it is mentally anticipating this before.
 
Thanks for all your replies, thought I'd post an update. We tacked him up Friday and he was fine, then Saturday we did the girth up very loosely (ie first hole either side) and he went down (although not completely). Then we tightened and lunged him and he was fine, so he was ridden. So now not sure if it is the actual tightening of the girth that's causing the problem? he's also well into his bute trial now...... Tacked up yesterday and he was fine......
confused.gif


Not sure if it's related but he is always tired, always yawning and seeming half asleep. If he is overtired could this be inducing it, if it is narcolepsy? Friday I was really concerned about his tiredness (like if it was one of my kids I'd be taking him to the GP concerned) as he was just so sleepy.
confused.gif


Waiting for my vet to get back to me now she's seen the video, and she's coming out for a visit to see him on Thursday so will be able to have a proper discussion with her then, and also mention a lot of what you guys have suggested to see what she thinks.
grin.gif
grin.gif
 
Not sure if this is relevant... but in our local Pegasus magazine this month there is a report by a saddler who was confronted by a horse with a similar problem of sinking to its knees whilst the saddle was being put on (the saddle was a good fit) The vet only detected minor sensitivity on the back. What they eventually found was that a previous rider when mounting, always landed heavily on the saddle, which had led to a great deal more mental discomfort than physical, and hence this unusual behaviour.

If all physical/pain issues are ruled perhaps its worth considering what may have happened in the horse's past which has led to this behaviour?
 
My horse is very slightly cold-backed and has always been a little 'tight' when first ridden - although this quickly wears off and she competes in all three disciplines quite successfully. A few years ago when stretching her front legs out and also picking her front feet out when just girthed up she started to go down just like your horse. In six years that's all she'd done. A couple of months ago she had a violent and extreme reaction just after being girthed up; firstly leaning back on her quarters and looking 'trembly in her front legs before she literally threw herself around the stable in a blind panic. I googled cold back and read that her symptoms were identical to what is described as an extreme cold-back reaction when the horse literally panics. The solution is to very loosely girth and walk the horse round to allow it to adjust to the sternum pressure etc. and to try and always mount from a block rather than hauling up onto the horse from the ground. My mare has not done it since and I'm confident it's something that can be managed quite easily. Was very frightening at the time though before I realised what it was!
 
Horses have a nerve running close enough to the girth area and sometimes this area can become damaged and then the pressure of a tightening girth gives them enough discomfort/pain to send them to the ground. It is very startling to have a horse just collapse in front of you right after you have tightened the girth . I have had it happen to me. Your horse is not being naughty - it is just trying to avoid pain.

After watching your video I suspect this is the problem although a back problem cannot be ruled out - after a few days rest you could try girthing your horse up from the other side and stretching out the legs too. If this does not work your I'm sure your vet will advise you. Good Luck
 
[ QUOTE ]


When he first started doing it I sh1t myself and yelled for Mr Worried but he very casually said he had done it a couple of times before , we are all used to it now.

He crosses his front leg over the other, draws his leg up and literally rocks back so he is almost laying down. Sometimes he then swaps legs and does it again.

For him he is clearly releasing something, it is quite so and deliberate though rather than a sudden drop.

[/ QUOTE ]

one of mine does something like that, sometimes after the saddles, on sometimes when she sees it coming.
i call it her yoga...she has both forelegs extended right out and stretches down so her chest is almost on the floor.

shes obviously not in pain or she'd bugger off, since i tack the horses up in a big field
, loose, as theres nowhere really to tie them
 
He's been on bute for a week and didn't go down at all during that time, whilst being girthed at least, so I suspect it is a pain thing. However, I picked his front leg up on Monday morning to pick out his hoof (after being tacked up in stable) and he went down then. Very odd! So that can't have been pain surely? Kept picking his leg up then and he was fine (didn't want him to associate going down with not being ridden!)
 
Sorry if you have already covered this but have you had scintigraphy scans yet? Now you have mentioned that the horse does this having a foot picked up it does make me wonder if the vets have missed something boney or muscley.
 
Spaniel, yes he's had a bone scan, there was increased uptake across his back and also the dsps around his bum, and then x rays showed a very slight thickening of the articular facets under his saddle but the vet thinks that is within the normal range. However, if all other avenues fail (new saddle, physio etc) then the vet will look at injecting the facet joint to see if that helps. i want to try less invasive methods first though before we go down that route
 
Hi, I'm new to this forum and came across it when trying to find out what's up with my Boy and how to help him as the vet doesn't know what's wrong and says he has never seen the like before. Lad is a 16.3hh 17 yr old TB (X Racer) and he's just a perfect gentleman in every way. I bought him last October. I thought he objected to being tied up too tightly whilst being tacked up so I tied him loose and then he would back up until his bum touched the wall - but nothing too dramatic. He doesn't so much as twitch when the saddle goes on or when he's groomed, or when I get on and off. He rides out perfectly and has easy transitions. I've been tacking himup outside since the nice weather came so there was no wall behind him and he'd back up much further and then go down until is elbows touched the floor and his bum was in the air - snapping the bailing string without even noticing. At first I though he was being a bit naughty but the last two weeks have becoem more dramatic. The saddle can be on him for ages and he doesn't bother. I can put the girth on and pull it up with 'one finger' pressure and he's OK. But the minute I get to the hole where I need to use finger and thumb that's when it starts like pressing a button! He goes down on his elbows with legs bent and out in front, then he lays down on his side for a few seconds and then he rolls back into either a sitting position or rests on one side of his haunches. Then he'll get up. Sometimes he repeats the same thing all over again. He seems to be stretching his belly at some point as if he's trying to get the girth off his chest. I could imagine an overtight girth could cause this reaction but even the vet admitted that he could still get a leg, never mind his arm through the girth and the last couple of weeks my friend has said you an see clear daylight through the girth all the time. I'm just hoping he doesn't shy violently to the side with such a loose girth! I've tried tightening really slowly and walking in between but it makes no difference as he does it on that first minute pressure from one buckle. I've tried getting on with a swinging girth and pulling up to that first 'pressure' hole from on top but had to jump off him when he went down on the driveway. The vet says he's never seen such a dramatic reaction and, having prodded and pummeled him all over, he can't find any seat of pain. I've got a physio coming next week and a master saddler coming tomorrow and am hoping that one or both might help me shed some light. I got him a new girth - one of those all stretchy things and a wooly sheath which covers it's full length but that didn't make any difference

In the meantime I'm going to try a few things...my other hors's western saddle and cinching it up low down as opposed to behind the elbow in the normal girth area....passing a thin rope right round him and seeing if the pressure of tightening this slightly causes the same reaction, and if not then doing the same thing but over the saddle also....putting the girth a few inches further back and tightening it over the saddle using a rope, so he feels the normal girth tighten but it's on a different pressure area - and anythign else I can think of that might help locate/eliminate the seat of pain.
 
i cant see the video. it says its been removed, prince used to collapse if i did it up to tight to quick, almost like it winded him so i do it up very slowly and dont tighten it untill i get on. but without seeing it i dnt know.
 
I haven't read all the posts so apologies if I'm repeating anything! My mare used to do this as a youngster (4 year old). Sometimes it was when I was on the ground and other times when I did her girth when I was on board. She kind of grew out of it thankfully but I did always stretch her front legs and also walk her in hand up and down once or twice before I got on. She is now 14 and hasn't done it since being a 'baby'.

I have got a scar on my bum though where she went down then popped right back up again and I sailed out the side door (it was totally unexpected - one of the first 'episodes') and landed on a concrete ledge! Just a warning to take care :-)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top