Horse control and the bit

Gosh a fantastic video! Have to say that in an ideal world we would all ride like that all the time in complete harmony and a proper partnership with out horses, but considering the safety aspect and practicalities of having to ride on the road it will probably never happen.

Also need to remember that bitless doesn't suit every horse, mine being one of them.

Certainly food for thought though and something to aim for before we automatically upgrade to stronger bits. :)
 
i dont enjoy seeing videos like this, as they usually dont just stick to the ridden side, but become almost like a circus act, with the horse performing tricks that serve no purpose other than self indulgence on the riders part, i dont see the need (for them or us), for a horse to spin excessively, for a rider to be standing on a horses back and certainly not for a horse to be bowing down.
for me, it would all be a lot more impresssive and nicer to watch if they just rode the horse and forgot the circus performance.
 
beautruman said:
i dont enjoy seeing videos like this, as they usually dont just stick to the ridden side, but become almost like a circus act, with the horse performing tricks that serve no purpose other than self indulgence on the riders part, i dont see the need (for them or us), for a horse to spin excessively, for a rider to be standing on a horses back and certainly not for a horse to be bowing down.
for me, it would all be a lot more impresssive and nicer to watch if they just rode the horse and forgot the circus performance.
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What about teaching a horse to jump 6 feet? Or for a horse to trot on the spot? What is the purpose of these exercises if they are not self indulgant for the rider?

Please do tell.
Admit it, everything we teach a horse to do for our entertainment, is a form of tricks. Maybe some tricks are suitable for a circus, others for a dressage arena.
 
Jennyharvey said:
What about teaching a horse to jump 6 feet? Or for a horse to trot on the spot? What is the purpose of these exercises if they are not self indulgant for the rider?

Please do tell.
Admit it, everything we teach a horse to do for our entertainment, is a form of tricks. Maybe some tricks are suitable for a circus, others for a dressage arena.
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what have i got to admit, i haven't condoned any of the above.
i agree... jumping excessive heights with a riders weight on their back and consistently, but i dont think that you can really compare jumping in general, as it does have it uses and is something that a horse would naturally do, with standing on a horses back or a horse bowing (which i think is degrading), as for some dressage, again i agree with you, it is only for the rider, this is shown in some of the horses behaviour.
 
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we must remember also, that although some moves may not play a part in the horses natural everyday life as such, they do serve a purpose, as in suppling, strengthening, helping them to be balanced when carrying a riders weight and preparing the horse for work to come, which will enable them to prevent injury, so promoting the horses health and fitness, just as we execute moves in a gym that will help us to go about our everyday life
 
beautruman said:
what have i got to admit, i haven't condoned any of the above.
i agree... jumping excessive heights with a riders weight on their back and consistently, but i dont think that you can really compare jumping in general, as it does have it uses and is something that a horse would naturally do, with standing on a horses back or a horse bowing (which i think is degrading), as for some dressage, again i agree with you, it is only for the rider, this is shown in some of the horses behaviour.
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What purpose has jumping and dressage got that teaching a horse to bow doesnt? Jumping, lateral movements, collection, all stuff a horse can do naturally. But that doenst mean it has a purpose other than for our entertainment when we use the horses natural ability and exploit it for prizes and money, and ego.
Also, horses can naturally bow, as when they are playing. Have you never seen a young horse try to bite another horse's legs and they end up on their knees? Also, its handy when youve got short legs and your horse is 16.2hh. Make getting on easier when there is no mounting block around. And standing on its back it a sign of trust. its shows that the rider trusts the horse, and the horse trusts the rider.

btw, how is asking a horse to bow any more degrading than anything else we do to them. ie ride them, put metal bits in their mouths, strap there mouths shut, shave their hair off, believe me, we do far more degrading things to a horse beside teaching them to bow.
 
Jennyharvey said:
What purpose has jumping and dressage got that teaching a horse to bow doesnt? Jumping, lateral movements, collection, all stuff a horse can do naturally. But that doenst mean it has a purpose other than for our entertainment when we use the horses natural ability and exploit it for prizes and money, and ego.
Also, horses can naturally bow, as when they are playing. Have you never seen a young horse try to bite another horse's legs and they end up on their knees? Also, its handy when youve got short legs and your horse is 16.2hh. Make getting on easier when there is no mounting block around. And standing on its back it a sign of trust. its shows that the rider trusts the horse, and the horse trusts the rider.

btw, how is asking a horse to bow any more degrading than anything else we do to them. ie ride them, put metal bits in their mouths, strap there mouths shut, shave their hair off, believe me, we do far more degrading things to a horse beside teaching them to bow.
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so you cant see what purpose jumping and dressage have over bowing? (i have explained in an earlier post).
horses playing and naturally going low is very different to doing party tricks on command.
clipping (shaving hair off as you put it), well you know the purpose of that.
there are lots of ways to show trust other than standing on their back and if you didnt already trust a horse then it would be pretty stupid to ride it, as trust is gained from the ground.
bits and strapping mouths is another conversation entirely and i cant see the post where i said i liked the video that include this.
dont take offence that i didnt like the video, it is my view and opinion on it.
 
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beautruman said:
so you cant see what purpose jumping and dressage have over bowing? (i have explained in an earlier post).
horses playing and naturally going low is very different to doing party tricks on command.clipping (shaving hair off as you put it), well you know the purpose of that.
there are lots of ways to show trust other than standing on their back and if you didnt already trust a horse then it would be pretty stupid to ride it, as trust is gained from the ground.
bits and strapping mouths is another conversation entirely and i cant see the post where i said i liked the video that include this.
dont take offence that i didnt like the video, it is my view and opinion on it.
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So a horse playing and doing passage in the field is very different from doing party tricks in the dressage arena.

I guess the way most people look at it is that jumping and dressage have a purpose for us. We gain something from it. Maybe its prizes. Maybe its money. After all, you will get a lot more money for a horse that jumps, compared to one that bows.

I guess to most people, bowing or standing on a horse's back hasnt got a purpose because there is no such thing as a bowing competition.
 
Jennyharvey said:
So a horse playing and doing passage in the field is very different from doing party tricks in the dressage arena.

I guess the way most people look at it is that jumping and dressage have a purpose for us. We gain something from it. Maybe its prizes. Maybe its money. After all, you will get a lot more money for a horse that jumps, compared to one that bows.

I guess to most people, bowing or standing on a horse's back hasnt got a purpose because there is no such thing as a bowing competition.
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i agree! we should have bare back competions with no bridles :D that would be so much fun!

i do go to competitions, like others, and feel it seems to be about where your placed instead of showing off your horse's ability. showjumping, dressage does show off ability and trust but, in my opinion, trusting your horse and communicating with no tools is an amazing thing to do and should be shown off!!
 
Jennyharvey said:
So a horse playing and doing passage in the field is very different from doing party tricks in the dressage arena.

I guess the way most people look at it is that jumping and dressage have a purpose for us. We gain something from it. Maybe its prizes. Maybe its money. After all, you will get a lot more money for a horse that jumps, compared to one that bows.

I guess to most people, bowing or standing on a horse's back hasnt got a purpose because there is no such thing as a bowing competition.
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sounds like you stand on your horses back and you have taught it to bow then :confused:
 
I don't care for Nevzarov-the fact that he was a mercenary for hire aside, he very much has his own agenda. I would argue that the horses shown on his website don't all look that happy either and I've heard some strange stories from people that were thrown out of his forum :D He doesnt like to be questioned thats for sure.



as for tricks, everything we ask a horse to do can be called a trick, from standing on 3 legs for the farrier to piaffe. some of them may have gymnastic benefits that enable horses to do more difficult tricks, others (much like the tricks the Nevzarovs do) arent correct in a classical or training sense-the difference between teaching a horse to rear and teaching a horse to levade. one of mine performs lateral work in long reins and under saddle, is it a trick on the long reins?
 
What is training, but getting a particular repsonse from a particular cue? Sounds very similar to tricks to me...

People think too much, just get on and get with your horse.
 
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