Horse damaged my car- HELP/ADVICE

[Natch]

What about a white lie to the YO saying that if they don't give you the man's full name and address then you will have no choice but to pursue the YO instead?

Someone on the yard must know his surname, surely? How does he get to the yard? Given his arsey attitude I'd follow him home to get his address.

 

[Archangel]

It is all very well for the yard owner to say they don't want to get involved but they are already involved due to the fact that they let their premises out for livery purposes and receive money in return. Or is the livery money all undeclared? Oh dear, they won't want offical letters flying about will they? *rubs chin*

The guy is bang out of order, he would be on my stalking rota pronto.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I rang the police- they said that horses actions are classed as an 'Act of God' and that if my horse had done it to someone elses car it would be the same.. however i did tell the unhelpful policeman that i have insurance on my horse for that exact reason.

Basically the police state there is nothing they can do.

The guy has no horse insurance qnd doesnt own a car, the YO isnt interested at all.

This is a typical response that a police officer may give when he doesn't know the answer & can't be bothered to find out & give the correct advice. The answer he gave is total pants!.
It is true that the police would not get involved in this matter as it is not covered by the Road Traffic Act or indeed any other criminal law & that is the law they deal with. It is a matter that could be dealt with by a civil court & from what you are saying it will probably have to be if the horse's owner has no insurance & is not prepared to pay up. Additionally the YO appears to be an idiot to run a yard without any public liability insurance. The horse's owner is liable for his horse's actions. Get his details from the YO & then speak to a solicitor or Citizens Advice Bureau regarding your next step. Your next step would probably be the Small Claims Court, you can do this yourself & you can get all the details you would need from the internet & the cost is minimal....honest.

Good Luck, don't let him get away with it!!!!!

 

[AmyMay]

What about a white lie to the YO saying that if they don't give you the man's full name and address then you will have no choice but to pursue the YO instead?

Not necessarily a white lie, as insurance company may well do that.

 

[TheEquineOak]

It is all very well for the yard owner to say they don't want to get involved but they are already involved due to the fact that they let their premises out for livery purposes and receive money in return. Or is the livery money all undeclared? Oh dear, they won't want offical letters flying about will they? *rubs chin*

The guy is bang out of order, he would be on my stalking rota pronto.

My thoughts exactly!!!

If this place is opperating as a livery yard I was under the impression that it MUST have liability insurance of some sort and, as above, if they are not paying their taxes on the money you're paying them I'm sure you could tactfully mentioned in a passing sentence about some lawful person getting involved....

 

[Ranyhyn]

^^ Iiiinteresting!! I had no idea it wasn't a proper yard, you have them by the short and curlies there hopefully

 

[fatpiggy]

I'd be very surprised if a farm didn't have public liability insurance TBH. If they don't though and are running a business from it (the liveries) then I think the powers-that-be might be interested in that. I'm afraid it seems to be a typical attitude by farmers though. I keep my old girl in the same position and we just get told to "sort it out amongst yourselves". Would be nice if it was that easy! They just want to take the rent money and do as little as possible for it

 

[Chestnut mare]

I'm afraid the same think happened to me.
I had my car parked at the yard where I kept my horse. I went out hacking. Came back and 1 of the liveries had tied her horse up behind where my car was parked and was grooming it. I put my horse back out and was standing talking to the other pony owner! All of a sudden her horse collapsed . It landed on the back on my car and got stuck we had to roll the car forward. The owner said to me how sorry she was and not to worry the horse is fully insured. I said we will sort it out later. The horse unfortunatly did not get back up and the vet was called to PTS. I left it a couple of weeks (didn't want to be insensitive as the poor girl had lost her horse but my car was damaged). She said it was in the hands of her insurance company. I had also reported it to my insurance company!
Anyway, it turns out although te horse was insured as my car was parked on private property (the yard) it's parked at my own risk and no way can the horse be held responsible! They also said horses are unpredictable and have their own minds!
Hope u get a better outcome than me.

 

[ladyt25]

I'm afraid the same think happened to me.
I had my car parked at the yard where I kept my horse. I went out hacking. Came back and 1 of the liveries had tied her horse up behind where my car was parked and was grooming it. I put my horse back out and was standing talking to the other pony owner! All of a sudden her horse collapsed . It landed on the back on my car and got stuck we had to roll the car forward. The owner said to me how sorry she was and not to worry the horse is fully insured. I said we will sort it out later. The horse unfortunatly did not get back up and the vet was called to PTS. I left it a couple of weeks (didn't want to be insensitive as the poor girl had lost her horse but my car was damaged). She said it was in the hands of her insurance company. I had also reported it to my insurance company!
Anyway, it turns out although te horse was insured as my car was parked on private property (the yard) it's parked at my own risk and no way can the horse be held responsible! They also said horses are unpredictable and have their own minds!
Hope u get a better outcome than me.

God, which insurer was that??

Any self-respecting horse insurer would have admitted liabilityin those sorts of circumstances seeing as the horse damaged 3rd party property due to it's actions (seemingly it wasn't in control of it's actions but that's by the by). I have never heard of an exclusion due to it being on private property. IF that horse had kicked a person who walked past it (or god forbid collapsed on another person) then you could bet that the insurance company who insured the horse would be held liable then, private property or not!

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Anyway, it turns out although te horse was insured as my car was parked on private property (the yard) it's parked at my own risk and no way can the horse be held responsible! They also said horses are unpredictable and have their own minds!
Hope u get a better outcome than me.

This is basically what the policeman said to me.. private land etc etc.

Ive told my insurance company everything i could about the guy, people know his surname but noone will tell me it- its like a big conspirsy (sp?) and people are just saying they wont get involved. Im assuming he has a lift up there as this was the second time ive ever seen him and im up faily regular throughout the week (I have a sharer who does certain days)

Yes its one of 'those' yards which are not really a livery yard, just a farm where horses are kept im sure its not labled as a business etc

 

[Spyda]

.....Anyway, it turns out although te horse was insured as my car was parked on private property (the yard) it's parked at my own risk and no way can the horse be held responsible! They also said horses are unpredictable and have their own minds!

WTF? Is this true???? Or just an insurance company trying to wriggle out of paying up?

I was struck in a traffic jam along Wembley High Road one morning - literally stationary, with cars a mile infront and a mile behind me, when a Mini waiting to pull out across the road to my left suddenly jerked out in the road at speed and smashed straight into the front of my stationary car. Neither car was left driveable; Her car was a right off, and the front wing of mine was caved in around the wheel arch, rubbing against the tyre. To cut a long story short, her insurance company later sent me a letter agreeing to settle HALF of my repair costs because, and I quote, "....whilst our client was at fault, had you not been positioned in the road as you were, they would not have had cause to hit you and therefore you are 50% responsible for the accident occuring." Duh?! Since then, NOTHING would surprise me in what an insurance company will come up with the get out of settling a claim.

Would be interesting to know if what's been said is actually true though. Makes me wonder if I shouldn't be better parking my car out on the road, rather than in the yard's car park?

OP: If the guy is a livery at your yard, surely someone there will know his surname and whereabouts he lives? And if he doesn't drive, how does he get to the yard? Someone at your yard MUST know something and it's pretty poor show if they're all keeping shtum at your expense. I'd remind them how they might feel in your position if it happens to one of their cars. Hope you can get it sorted.

 

[Spyda]

Ive told my insurance company everything i could about the guy, people know his surname but noone will tell me it- its like a big conspirsy (sp?) and people are just saying they wont get involved. Im assuming he has a lift up there as this was the second time ive ever seen him and im up faily regular throughout the week (I have a sharer who does certain days)

I'd definitely pass the yard owners name, address and phone number to your insurance company if you haven't already done so. Perhaps a formal letter from them will pursuade the YO to 'get involved'. Jeeze, the other people's attutude stinks - and I don't just mean the guy who's horse kicked your car. Everyone there who wont help you get this sorted. It's not complicated after all. His horse did the damage, and you need to claim. Why's everyone being cagey? Is this guy some sort of Mafia?

 

[EquestrianFairy]

I'd definitely pass the yard owners name, address and phone number to your insurance company if you haven't already done so. Perhaps a formal letter from them will pursuade the YO to 'get involved'. Jeeze, the other people's attutude stinks - and I don't just mean the guy who's horse kicked your car. Everyone there who wont help you get this sorted. It's not complicated after all. His horse did the damage, and you need to claim. Why's everyone being cagey? Is this guy some sort of Mafia?

Thats exactly what ive done now- passed on the YO details and address to my insurer so they can chase them and hopefully then they will end up chasing the guy.

The policeman said to me i was better off parking my car on a road- at least i would have a case! Helpful! not!

 

[Chestnut mare]

Unfortunately it's true. It just goes to show how people change when money is involved. If it was me I would of offered a token amount towards the repair if my pony damaged a friends car. It was just an awkward situation as the horse died I suppose but insurance companies do get out of paying wherever they can

 

[Spottyappy]

Good luck. Years ago, a girl had tied her horse to a rail instead of a tie ring. The horse broke loose, taking the rail with it. Flew round the car park and the rail unfortunately smashed into my car badly damaging the paint work. The horse was unhurt. The owner admitted liability as the horse hadn;t been tied to the proper place provided. She was insured but her insurance company refused to pay "unless I could get the horse to admit liability"

 

[Ranyhyn]

A horse can't admit liability for anything lol so whats the point of insuring it!!

 

[Spottyappy]

I did suggest the owner wrote on a piece of paper " I admit I am liable for smahing the rail into the car" and stamped it with his hoof, but the insurance said it would be invalid!

 

[Mike007]

I dont think you are going to win this one. It is a horse yard,therefore there are horses and they do do this sort of thing. You put your car in an area frequented by horses as part of the day to day running of the place. That was your choice and your acceptance of the risk. Apart from a few exceptions we all have to insure against our own risks if we wish insurance cover..(motoring is one of the few exceptions and because it is the most common insurance,people think this is the rule rather than the exception)You would have to prove negligence to stand any chance against the horse owner.I do realise that there is now a no fault liability(after a high court ruling) ,if for example a horse escapes ,but the horse was where it should be and I doubt very much if this could be applied. The yard owner is in a slightly more difficult position because they have allowed you on the premises and have possibly failed to adequately assess the risks involved in having a parking area together with a horse area.The question is who amongst you all has failed in their duty of care. My guess is all of you .

 

[Ranyhyn]

Case adjourned.

 

[Amaranta]

i thought it was against the law to run a yard as a business without insurance ???

Me too! I would be advising the YO of this, it may just galvanise him into giving you the guys details!

 

[Mike007]

Me too! I would be advising the YO of this, it may just galvanise him into giving you the guys details!

Employers liability is the only one you must have by law.

 

[dozzie]

Is it that bad that it needs repairing? Cant you get someone to "push" it back... with a hammer? Or go to the scrappy and get a new door?

 

[Amaranta]

Employers liability is the only one you must have by law.

Blimey, you learn something new everyday! I just assumed that he would have to have it as he was running a business.

 

[JenniferS]

A dog ran infront of my mum's car around 10 years ago when a girl didn't have the dog on the lead and it just ran out from nowhere. The dog was fine and the girl just ran away, but the front of the car was smashed in. There was nothing that could be done and my mum & dad just had to claim it on their insurance.

 

[Kaylum]

Get an estimate for the damage first of all.

Then give him the estimate with a letter saying this can be paid in cash by hiim or you can involve insurance companies (whether he has insurance or not is not an issue here as thats his problem).

Get everything in writing give it to him. The ball is in his court, also say you have informed your insurance company of a possible claim coming through.

 

[Tnavas]

WTF? Is this true???? Or just an insurance company trying to wriggle out of paying up?

I was struck in a traffic jam along Wembley High Road one morning - literally stationary, with cars a mile infront and a mile behind me, when a Mini waiting to pull out across the road to my left suddenly jerked out in the road at speed and smashed straight into the front of my stationary car. Neither car was left driveable; Her car was a right off, and the front wing of mine was caved in around the wheel arch, rubbing against the tyre. To cut a long story short, her insurance company later sent me a letter agreeing to settle HALF of my repair costs because, and I quote, "....whilst our client was at fault, had you not been positioned in the road as you were, they would not have had cause to hit you and therefore you are 50% responsible for the accident occuring." Duh?! Since then, NOTHING would surprise me in what an insurance company will come up with the get out of settling a claim.

Unless the law has changed since I was last in UK - when stuck in queued traffic you mustn't block the access/exit of roads. If you were stationery accross the front of a street junction then you are partly liable for the damage - if you hadn't been there the mini would not have hit you.

 

[Miss L Toe]

All DIY yards I have been on insist on Public liability for this reason.
Re police action, if it happened on private land it may not concern them as it is not illegal to keep a horse uninsured.
Re yard owner, did you go in all guns blazing?.. they are in business and almost all businesses have some sort of insurance, just as almost all householders have.
I don't see that you are going to get anywhere with this to be fair, but people should be prepared to give you their address.
I park my car in the car park, not in a horse area, but I have seen people parking right next to the mounting block just to save them walking from the overflow car park, I have a young horse and most people round here are not dyed in the wool horsemen, they expect the ponies to work out what is required and never misbehave.... any horse excitement is viewed as an "incident", I am used to lively TB's and don't mix it with cars.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

As I understand it:
1. Horse owner is liable for damages as under the Animals Act strict liability applies whether there is negligence or not by horse owner
2. If the cost of your repairs is significant the Ins Co will want to recover their outlay. The can appoint in house investigator to obtain details of the third party and take him to court. Even if he has no insurance he can still pay x amount a week.
3. If amount of repairs is not high it is often not economically viable as cost of pursuing TP may exceed amount of repairs.
4. Unless you have uninsured loss cover they will not get your excess back - that is down to you.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

Forgot to add that without any independant witness evidence they are unlikely to take the matter to extremes as it is one persons word against another.

Sorry.

 

[Keltic]

A horse reared up and fell backwards on my new car and did a few thousand pounds worth of damage, the owner said straight away that she would pay even if her insurance wouldnt. She was insured with the NFU who refused to pay as they said the accident couldnt be predicted. The owner refused to pay and said she hadnt admitted liability and was really stroppy over it and our YO wouldnt get involved at all. Numerous letters via a solicitor etc using the Animals Act made no difference and my insurance had to pay, so I lost my no claims bonus etc. Its still leaves a bad taste in my mouth after being treated to so bad by NFU and the worst thing is my horses are insured with them too! Where horses are concerned its not always black and white and the insurance companies will wiggle out of it anyway possible.