Horse dealer - returning problem horse

[jessie7]

I don't know if anyone can help, I know there have been a few threads on this.

I bought a 4yr old from a dealer 2 months ago.
The horse bucks and has got progressively worse to the point I'm struggling to ride him at all.

I have had 2 vets look at him and he has had acupuncture and physio. Both vets agreed there was nothing obviously wrong with him other than a bit sore in his lumbar region but likely just because he is weak. The next stage would be bone scans to investigate anything possibly pain related but maybe the issue is behavioural and he isn't reacting to pain at all......

The issue I have is should I or can I return the horse to the dealer after 2 months?

Any advice would be much appreciated, I'm at a loss as he's a sweet horse but I don't want to get injured!

 

[rifruffian]

why not ask the dealer ?

 

[bonny]

I think it would depend on how the horse was described, he's only 4 so I doubt the dealer would have stated he wouldn't ever buck. Did you have him vetted ?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

In your position, I would talk to the dealer. If you had had the horse for a longer time, I would ask for a 2nd vet opinion. ' A bit sore' in the lumbar region could explain the behaviour but would need proper investigation, including x-rays/scans.

 

[ihatework]

What does your trainer think?

 

[jessie7]

My vet suggested I phone the dealer and try and send him back. I have a lame horse already sat in the field and I think he doesn't want me to be stuck with another problem. The other vet (a friend) looked at him and suggested I long line him, which I have been doing but Im concerned about how long I spend trying to sort something that might be unsortable (by me at least).
I don't have a trainer at the moment.
I didn't have him vetted as he came with a very recent vet certificate.
Is it best I make the dealer aware of the situation now?
I don't know how long I can leave it before they aren't obliged to do anything about it......if they are obliged to do anything at all.
The dealer didn't state he wouldn't ever buck and I didn't buy a 4 yr old expecting it to be foot perfect but he bucks all the time, there isn't any specific trigger it is literally any excuse. I've just bought him some calmer to see if it might help him focus a little more and be less explosive.

I don't want to have to consider sending him back but I spent all my money purchasing him and don't want to be stuck with another crook horse!

 

[thatsmygirl]

Did he not show any signs of bucking when you tried him? So u didnt have bloods taken? If you didnt vet.

 

[bonny]

I can't see you have a case for returning the horse from what you've said, did you tell the dealer you wanted a quiet horse ? did he make any claims about the horse's behaviour ?

 

[rifruffian]

Best call the dealer to inform him what want you want and offer a good deal..........for example offer to sell at £500 less than you paid.

 

[jessie7]

No he was super quiet when I tried him.
Green - as I obviously expected but no signs of bucking at all.
No I didn't have bloods taken as didn't have him vetted myself.

Maybe I just need to bite the bullet and phone the dealer. I guess then I will have a better view on the situation. Either I'm stuck with him and need to do what it takes to sort him out or they will offer to have him back. ....
I've never had an issue with a horse like this so don't know if I even have the right to try and send him back after 2 months. In hindsight I probably should have contacted the dealer straight away but I wanted to give the horse time to settle, then he had some time off as I was concerned he might be struggling and before long 2 months has passed and he's still no better.

 

[ihatework]

In the nicest possible way - why is this the dealers problem?
You have bought a 4yo, they need training correctly. It is not necessarily the dealers fault you have potentially over horsed yourself.
By all means call the dealer but don't be surprised if they don't bend over backwards to take back what might now be a ruined horse.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

My advice - lots of hay and turnout for the horse. No hard feed. A decent saddle and some Physio. Then spend out on some decent instruction.

 

[thatsmygirl]

In the nicest possible way - why is this the dealers problem?
You have bought a 4yo, they need training correctly. It is not necessarily the dealers fault you have potentially over horsed yourself.
By all means call the dealer but don't be surprised if they don't bend over backwards to take back what might now be a ruined horse.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

My advice - lots of hay and turnout for the horse. No hard feed. A decent saddle and some Physio. Then spend out on some decent instruction.

A bit harsh, although I do agree with some of what your saying, we don't know how capable the op is, yes she may have over horsed herself but on the other hand she might be more than capable.

 

[PeterNatt]

Did you respond to an advert and what did the advert say?
Did you get a receipt from the dealer and what did it say?
Were there any witnesses to any conversations you had with the dealer?

Consumer Rights Act 1 October 2015
Covers all goods including horses, livery yards, riding lessons and horsebox repairs.
Buyers have the right to a 30 day refund for faulty, not as described (always keep advert) or not fit for purpose goods bought from a business such as dealers.
Even after 30 days have passed the buyer can still be entitled to a refund - full if under 6 months, or partial if over 6 months but must allow the trader to repair or replace the item first.
However if you buy privately this does not apply.
Under the new ruling those who do not apply 'reasonable care' as agreed with the consumer will have to put things right such as redo the job or give some money back.

Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 the supplier has a responsibility to supply goods that are of satisfactory quality, being free of inherent defects, durable and fit for purpose.
Services should be provided with reasonable care and skill and that any goods should be of satisfactory quality.

 

[popsdosh]

A bit harsh, although I do agree with some of what your saying, we don't know how capable the op is, yes she may have over horsed herself but on the other hand she might be more than capable.

Then with respect why is the horse getting worse! I personally think 2 months is a big call to ask a dealer to take back as they will probably rightly say why havent you mentioned it before. By all means OP call them(you definitely should) and explain and if they take it back I think you should love them forever I cant quite see why you are so nervous about it as they can only say no at worst.

 

[jessie7]

I've produced a number of young horses and dealt with some real pigs in my time.
This one is just different, it's not like he's naughty and you can get after him and ride through it.
My gut says there is a problem and I was just wondering if anyone had experience of returning a horse to a dealer.

He lives out, doesn't have anything but hay (now just has a handful of chaff for his new calmer).
I don't have an instructor. When my horses are at the stage where they are starting to compete I take them to training clinics - I've always worked this way with my youngsters.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

A young green horse that has been at a dealer s will have had plenty of handling, discipline and work. He may be testing his boundaries. A young horse will have a buck and a play. I would give plenty of turnout, no hard feed, plenty of hay....no haylage and work him.

Lunge him first, I would not worry how he goes, but just get him moving forward and take the sting out of him, then ride him.

 

[thatsmygirl]

Did you respond to an advert and what did the advert say?
Did you get a receipt from the dealer and what did it say?
Were there any witnesses to any conversations you had with the dealer?

Consumer Rights Act 1 October 2015
Covers all goods including horses, livery yards, riding lessons and horsebox repairs.
Buyers have the right to a 30 day refund for faulty, not as described (always keep advert) or not fit for purpose goods bought from a business such as dealers.
Even after 30 days have passed the buyer can still be entitled to a refund - full if under 6 months, or partial if over 6 months but must allow the trader to repair or replace the item first.
However if you buy privately this does not apply.
Under the new ruling those who do not apply 'reasonable care' as agreed with the consumer will have to put things right such as redo the job or give some money back.

Under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 the supplier has a responsibility to supply goods that are of satisfactory quality, being free of inherent defects, durable and fit for purpose.
Services should be provided with reasonable care and skill and that any goods should be of satisfactory quality.

Does baffle me how it can apply to livestock, iv seen first hand how quickly horses are ruined in the wrong hands, not saying that's the case here mind.

 

[ozpoz]

If he has a lumbar problem have you had his saddle checked and fitted properly? It seems obvious, and could be the cause of the problems you are experiencing.

 

[thatsmygirl]

Then with respect why is the horse getting worse! I personally think 2 months is a big call to ask a dealer to take back as they will probably rightly say why havent you mentioned it before. By all means OP call them(you definitely should) and explain and if they take it back I think you should love them forever I cant quite see why you are so nervous about it as they can only say no at worst.

Yes it is a big ask for the dealer to take the horse back and personally doubt very much if they will, the horse may be getting worst because he's in pain, something is pinching there's endless possibilities and checks to be done, it doesn't mean its the op fault the horse is getting worst

 

[popsdosh]

I've produced a number of young horses and dealt with some real pigs in my time.
This one is just different, it's not like he's naughty and you can get after him and ride through it.
My gut says there is a problem and I was just wondering if anyone had experience of returning a horse to a dealer.

He lives out, doesn't have anything but hay (now just has a handful of chaff for his new calmer).
I don't have an instructor. When my horses are at the stage where they are starting to compete I take them to training clinics - I've always worked this way with my youngsters.

Dont be so nervous about talking to the dealer the longer you leave it the more likely you are to get a negative attitude from them.

 

[popsdosh]

Yes it is a big ask for the dealer to take the horse back and personally doubt very much if they will, the horse may be getting worst because he's in pain, something is pinching there's endless possibilities and checks to be done, it doesn't mean its the op fault the horse is getting worst

I did not mean that the op was making it worse but merely that it is obviously getting worse so it is equally difficult to pin it down to an issue before the horse was bought. As others have said youngsters have all sorts of tricks for pushing the boundaries and hopefully this may be one.

 

[jessie7]

I had his saddle checked.
My vet couldn't find anything wrong with him - said I would need to do bone scans if I wanted to investigate further.
My other vet worked with the physio and mentioned he was a bit sore in his lumbar region but was likely just because he was young and weak - they didn't identify a 'problem' but he had some physio and acupuncture.

 

[thatsmygirl]

Then with respect why is the horse getting worse! I personally think 2 months is a big call to ask a dealer to take back as they will probably rightly say why havent you mentioned it before. By all means OP call them(you definitely should) and explain and if they take it back I think you should love them forever I cant quite see why you are so nervous about it as they can only say no at worst.

Oh I agree it is a big ask to see weather the dealer will take the horse back and doubt very much they will but nobody can say its due to the op, there's endless reasons why the horse might be getting worst, not just that the op isn't experienced enough. There's lots of checks to be carried out which I'm sure she will start doing if she hasn't already.

 

[dibbin]

If he has a lumbar problem have you had his saddle checked and fitted properly? It seems obvious, and could be the cause of the problems you are experiencing.

This would be my first question.

Also, did he come with tack or did you buy tack for him after you bought him?

If you really don't think you can get him through this then you're probably best phoning the dealer ASAP to see if they'll buy him back/exchange him before it gets much worse. Just explain that things aren't working out and you think you'd be better with something else. Be prepared to accept a fair bit less than you paid for him though

 

[AmyMay]

I had his saddle checked.
My vet couldn't find anything wrong with him - .

Presumably you've had the saddler that originally fitted the saddle back out?

What's the horses's history? How long has itbeen broken in?

 

[thatsmygirl]

Then with respect why is the horse getting worse! I personally think 2 months is a big call to ask a dealer to take back as they will probably rightly say why havent you mentioned it before. By all means OP call them(you definitely should) and explain and if they take it back I think you should love them forever I cant quite see why you are so nervous about it as they can only say no at worst.

Oh I agree it is a big ask to see weather the dealer will take the horse back and doubt very much they will but nobody can say its due to the op, there's endless reasons why the horse might be getting worst, not just that the op isn't experienced enough. There's lots of checks to be carried out which I'm sure she will start doing if she hasn't already.

SORRY POPSDOSH my phone is messing around so double posted sort off :/
I understand what you mean now after your post above

 

[Illusion100]

I think you're on a sticky wicket here I'm afraid to say.

By all means call the Dealer and explain the situation, they might help you out but I can't see that they'd be obligated to with what has been described.

Really feel for you OP, wishing best of luck.

 

[stormox]

He is only 4, maybe he was weaker when you tried him, and is stronger and fitter now. Is he an Irish import? He may just have been backed and ridden a bit before he went to the sales- can you find out about his life before the dealer had him?
A lot of 5 year olds start 'trying it on' a bit- have you heard of the 'fiesty fives'? They are getting mature and strong by that age, whereas at 3 and 4 they are usually immature in comparison.
IMHO I dont think you have any reason to send him back, especially as 2 months have passed and you haven't complained before.

 

[jessie7]

He came from Ireland so I don't know his history.
I will phone the dealer this week, knowledge is power - was just wondering if anyone had any similar experiences.

If I end up keeping him then I will investigate further and have X-rays, scans etc.
I'm not frightened of him, he hasn't had me off (has come close a couple of times) but I literally feel like I can't do anything with him.
I've not pushed him, I hacked him for the first month and initially put his bucking down to freshness and excitement. Then as I introduced school work it got worse so I rested him and after a rest it was still bad so had vet etc

 

[AmyMay]

And the saddler?