horse died at riding club hunter trial

PapaFrita said:
One final question. Soo, if vettings/health checks are unreliable (you've said yourself things can be missed/problems develop at any time), both the owner of the horse that died at the HT and Baggybreeches COULD have had the horses checked and the checks could still have missed something crucial OR the problem could've not been one that would be picked up on the usual scans. So in fact there is nothing 'obvious' about either death and you were unfair to leap to conclusions.
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I have spoken to the owner of the horse that died at the hunter trial. Trotting around a local cross country course is not classed as hard work in the horse world, so why should she have had her horse checked out? As for Baggybreeches, she P2Ps without having her horses checked which is unthinkable for me, but which she explains she does not do because she thinks it is pointless due to previous experience. Again, I respect that as it is based on her own experiences and beliefs, even if they differ from my own. It may be that her horse could have been fully checked out and still died. It may be that one of my horses that has passed the vet dies of a heart attack. But it may also be that the vet could have pinpointed a problem with BBs horse and saved all the heartache. No one knows, do they?

I am prepared to accept that people's opinions differ from my own, but why can't you accept that some people like myself like to get them checked out?
 
Wagtail said:
I have spoken to the owner of the horse that died at the hunter trial. Trotting around a local cross country course is not classed as hard work in the horse world, so why should she have had her horse checked out? As for Baggybreeches, she P2Ps without having her horses checked which is unthinkable for me, but which she explains she does not do because she thinks it is pointless due to previous experience. Again, I respect that as it is based on her own experiences and beliefs, even if they differ from my own. It may be that her horse could have been fully checked out and still died. It may be that one of my horses that has passed the vet dies of a heart attack. But it may also be that the vet could have pinpointed a problem with BBs horse and saved all the heartache. No one knows, do they?

I am prepared to accept that people's opinions differ from my own, but why can't you accept that some people like myself like to get them checked out?
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I'm just suggesing that it was unfair of you to leap to conclusions; "Obviously this 'elderly' horse was not fit enough or had a heart problem that meant that cross country was too much for him." Nothing 'obvious' at all about it and absolutely no guarantee that a check up on either horse would've thrown up any problems.
I don't have a problem with you having your horses checked, but don't think a 5 stage vetting is the best way to do it.
 
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PapaFrita said:
I'm just suggesing that it was unfair of you to leap to conclusions; "Obviously this 'elderly' horse was not fit enough or had a heart problem that meant that cross country was too much for him." Nothing 'obvious' at all about it and absolutely no guarantee that a check up on either horse would've thrown up any problems.
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And that is why I have spoken privately to the owner of the horse referred to in the OP and apologised (she has confirmed this many pages ago), so I am puzzled as to why you are hanging onto it. Did you want me to do it again or something? :confused:

The statement was not said in respect to BBs horse as it came before she mentioned her horse's death. All the discussions regarding vetting referred to horses in 'hard work', such as racing, eventing and endurance.
 
Just reading this tread with interest. I lost my boy out on a hack, we were having a steady canter across a field when he dropped underneath me. He was 15 and as fit as a flea and showed no signs before hand.

So speaking from experiance, would I have wanted to have found out about a possible heart condition before hand? (didnt know if he did, nothing ever showed up when I had vet checkups) No probably not, because after that I would have been petrified to do anything with him, and he would have been miserable for it. He enjoyed his work, loved to gallop and jump and went out doing what he enjoyed the most, cantering with his mate, ears pricked.
 
greygreg said:
Just reading this tread with interest. I lost my boy out on a hack, we were having a steady canter across a field when he dropped underneath me. He was 15 and as fit as a flea and showed no signs before hand.

So speaking from experiance, would I have wanted to have found out about a possible heart condition before hand? (didnt know if he did, nothing ever showed up when I had vet checkups) No probably not, because after that I would have been petrified to do anything with him, and he would have been miserable for it. He enjoyed his work, loved to gallop and jump and went out doing what he enjoyed the most, cantering with his mate, ears pricked.
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What a horrible thing to happen, but sounds as though your boy was enjoying his life. I have to admit that I would be afraid to do anything if I knew my horse had a heart problem. However, one of mine has had to retire very early due to a shoulder injury, and I can honestly say she has a very happy life here. I do other non strenuous things with her such as clicker training which she loves. We are all different in whether we would want to know about things such as heart problems. I probably would, but I understnd your reasons for not wanting to know.
 
brighteyes said:
OK then, do racehorse trainers have their horses vetted for heart things before every bit of fast work and race?
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No, they don't. In fact, often they don't at all, ever. But I am not suggesting that horses are vetted before every bit of fast work or race.

Fact is, in racing, unless a horse is particularly valuable, very little is ever spent on accessing their health at any stage in their career. If they can't cope with the training or don't perform racing, then they go to the sales. No way would money be spent on trying to find out why.
 
Wagtail said:
No, they don't. In fact, often they don't at all, ever. But I am not suggesting that horses are vetted before every bit of fast work or race.

Fact is, in racing, unless a horse is particularly valuable, very little is ever spent on accessing their health at any stage in their career. If they can't cope with the training or don't perform racing, then they go to the sales. No way would money be spent on trying to find out why.
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Clearly as foolhardy as the rest of us, then...
 
Wagtail said:
Fact is, in racing, unless a horse is particularly valuable, very little is ever spent on accessing their health at any stage in their career. If they can't cope with the training or don't perform racing, then they go to the sales. No way would money be spent on trying to find out why.
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Unbelievable tosh once again. You are making huge sweeping generalisations about hundreds of people (trainers and owners) you don't even know.

I've ridden out for a few trainers, and know a lot of owners. They leave no stone unturned to try and get to the root of a problem with horses at all levels. Granted there will be a few as you describe, as there are in ALL areas of horse sport, but to damn racing in one fell swoop like that is frankly laughable.

Racing spearheads so much of the research into equine well-being, I don't think even the most idiotic clown on here could argue that sending them to the sales is how its funded or researched.

Though I expect you will. :rolleyes:
 
Wagtail said:
It's down to money. Simple as. I would hate to think it was down to money with the majority of us.
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I have to disagree, there are so many things that can go wrong in life that if you spent all your time and money checking and cross checking everything that could go wrong then you would end up never leaving your own house let alone owning any kind of animal.

:)
 
Wagtail the more I read of your total tosh the more I am led to the conclusion that despite your claims you have had very little to do with actual real horses.
Your recomendation that all horses have a full vetting prior to any serious work is so ludicrously impractical it beggars belief. Your arguments are flawed and your rationality non existent.
Please just go away. No one is gullible enough to take you seriously anymore, all you are doing now is making a fool of yourself.
 
'quote"

Fact is, in racing, unless a horse is particularly valuable, very little is ever spent on accessing their health at any stage in their career. If they can't cope with the training or don't perform racing, then they go to the sales. No way would money be spent on trying to find out why.[/QUOTE]

Hmm - isn't the Animal Health Trust based at Newmarket?? :)

Of the last 3 people I have spoken to who have interests in racing, one (owner) was calling in an animal behaviourist to his horse, one was a chiropracter employed in a racing yard, and my own back man goes round all the racing yards when he is in the area.
 
Allover said:
I have to disagree, there are so many things that can go wrong in life that if you spent all your time and money checking and cross checking everything that could go wrong then you would end up never leaving your own house let alone owning any kind of animal.

:)
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Oh yes, that is very true. That is why we all have to choose the things that we check. Can't go checking everything. :)

I don't mind people who disagree with me one bit, so long as theyare polite about it.

As for Caledonia, Alligator et al. I really don't know why they continue replying to me as they never get a reply back. Though they always seem very drawn to my posts. :rolleyes:

Shout and call names all you like. It's very funny watching you.
 
ozpoz said:
'quote"

Hmm - isn't the Animal Health Trust based at Newmarket?? :)

Of the last 3 people I have spoken to who have interests in racing, one (owner) was calling in an animal behaviourist to his horse, one was a chiropracter employed in a racing yard, and my own back man goes round all the racing yards when he is in the area.
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The AHT, Rossdales and Newmarket Equine Hospitals are indeed all based at Newmarket, yes. I have been to the former two on several occasions. As I already said, money will be spent on valuable racehorses. I am personally familiar with two racing yards in Yorkshire (won't be more specific than that) and though both are run by lovely people who love horses, they do not go spending money on mediocre animals. They send them to the sales (or to me if I happen to be looking at the time and they have something suitable).

But the more wealthy owners with expensive horses spend a huge amount on their health. Of course they do.
 
umm, the owner is my car mechanic... it's his passion, he's not wealthy!
The rest were not representative of top level, either.
 
Wagtail said:
I don't mind people who disagree with me one bit, so long as theyare polite about it.

As for Caledonia, Alligator et al. I really don't know why they continue replying to me as they never get a reply back. Though they always seem very drawn to my posts. :rolleyes:

Shout and call names all you like. It's very funny watching you.
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You continue to skip across tangents and refuse to answer posts because you can't produce a valid response.

You know two Yorkshire trainers (or so you say) - I know a couple of Yorkshire trainers couldn't train ivy up a wall, doesn't mean I tar all trainers with the same brush tho' - you're using your limited parochial outlook and applying it to the world at large.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing......
 
ozpoz said:
umm, the owner is my car mechanic... it's his passion, he's not wealthy!
The rest were not representative of top level, either.
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Well that is very good to hear. You know we were talking about giving horses health checks to see if they were fit enough to race, right? I said that no, racing yards would not do that. No one that I know who races horses would give them a health check to see if they were fit to race unless they had been injured or ill. It would not be financially acceptable.

Maybe there are some exceptions to this? But not if the reactions of people on here are anything to go by.
 
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Wagtail said:
No one that I know who races horses would give them a health check to see if they were fit to race unless they had been injured or ill. It would not be financially acceptable.

Maybe there are some exceptions to this? But not if the reactions of people on here are anything to go by.
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You do talk some crap, Wagtail.
 
I've never heard so much rubbish from one person!!!

My first horse died of a heart attack half way over a jump on a fun ride aged 10. I'd had her vetted before buying her and all was fine. The horse I'd had vetted before failed the vetting due to a heart murmur, 15 years later, the last I heard of him he was nearly 30 and still going strong having spent a large part of those 15 years eventing.

You really REALLY can't predict these things as there are far too many variables.

I rarely post, but you are honestly the most unpleasant sanctimonious person I've come across in a long time.
 
Wagtail said:
Well that is very good to hear. You know we were talking about giving horses health checks to see if they were fit enough to race, right? I said that no, racing yards would not do that. No one that I know who races horses would give them a health check to see if they were fit to race unless they had been injured or ill. It would not be financially acceptable.
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So when the bloods are wrong pre-race and they pull horses out, that's not checking health? When they don't run because they've scoped dirty pre-race that's not checking health? When they stop with them because there's heat in a leg and get it scanned and x-rayed that's not checking health?

You really haven't a scooby, have you?
 
pastie2 said:
Well Wagtail, you seem to have spent most of your day on this forum, you must spend an huge amount of time having your horses vetted....... do you actually ride your horse/horses? Is there time? Most knowledgable people dont need a full vetting before they do serious work with their horses, they are aware of the fitness health etc. of their horses. As you know a heart attack can happen anytime, even if it had a 5* vetting the day before the event. Having said that, p2p and race horses in big yards are most often scoped before running to make quite certain all is well and a virus is not about to make itself present. But, that is in yards where horses are travelling to and from racecourses. I personally think you know begger all and you are a forum troll. Anyone else would have moved on and not been so obsessed in having the last word. You need to go and have a bleddy good 5* vetting and make it all better.
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:D Yes, this thread needs leaving alone. Should have done it long ago. Just for the record, I've fed, turned out/brought in mucked out six, ridden two and given one lesson today. But you are quite right, I should have left this black hole of a thread alone, long ago. Will do now though. Thank you! :)
 
Given a lesson? Dear god you mean there are people out there stupid enough to pay for your opinion?
Out of interest just what are your qualifcations?
 
God people the horse was only 15 he wasnt elderly at all :rolleyes:

My 20 yr old need to chill a bit then if thats what people think.

My heart goes out to the owner of the horse who now has to see people condemning her for her taking him round, shame on you and thats alot coming from me :D
 
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