Horse diving, then running off with you

[Cliqmo]

I keep hearing reference to a double and two reins. The problem is I just don't feel confident with the idea of two reins. I could perhaps do with having some practice. I just worry I might cling to the curb rein if I can't stop her

If this is the case I would try the kimblewick with ONE rein rather than a pelham with roundings

The pelham can (and often is) used with D rings, however I don't think it is the ideal solution for you. I'm aware some people will argue that using D rings "makes the bit ineffective" and plenty of others would argue that "a pelham is a bodge job of a double bridle" so it really depends who your speak to :crazy:

In your situation (strong horse, rider who is nervous of strong bits or double reins) I would recommend the use of the kimblewick because
(A) the shank is shorter so the poll action is less severe than the bottom ring of gags and pelhams- which should comfort you, the rider
(B) you have the option to 'strengthen' the bit (by using the slots rather than connecting through the main D ring) if your horse is particularly strong when you're out hunting. You can't do this with a pelham unless you carry a spare set of reins :grin:

 

[star]

spotted cat - how about this variation on it for XC
http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/P/Sweet_Iron_Copper_Tom_Thumb_tom_thumb_bit-(781).aspx

I used this for hunting on Sunday but at the 1st check I had to put the reins up to the middle ring (so it was more of a hanging cheek) as it was a bit too much!

i used this on Sunday and it was ok - he still yanks the reins out of my hands when i'm trying to stop, but otherwise i can check before the jumps ok. i also have the version without copper rollers which I'm gonna try this week and see if there's any difference. i have tried bridging the reins etc which does help. i cant put anything too strong in or he fights it big time and is actually more dangerous. with this bit i also wrapped a flash strap between the cheek piece rings to act as a leather curb and limit the poll action.

 

[skewby]

Hi Patches, I have come on tonight especially to say, don't listen to me, I passed the master twice today!!

Having said that, horse was totally bl00dy wired (we've not been out much so it's still an education) and after a debrief with my instructor, we decided I am just too kind on the curb. I don't use it enough. I spoke to a lovely chap riding a horse that (allegedly) does exactly the same thing, in a cheltenham gag on the loosest contact. It behaved impeccably. He said he did it by, the first time, right at the start, it took a pull, he gave it a serious yank on the bottom rein. My instructor also advised, next time, as soon as he starts to tank/pull, give him a sharp upwards pull on the curb on one rein. I am going to try this next time!!

Nice chappy said I need a gag to lift his head, but I do know that with my lad he will evade gags by lifting his head really high, which is truthfully infinitely more scary than him putting his head down and leaning.

I was also without my spur today, as every time I put it on I got a massive temper buck. That made me a bit windy, which I shouldn't have been.

I do think just try the two reins, honestly, I am the first person to get in a muddle but I found the transition totally easy peasy and logical. I had a lesson with my instructor in the arena first, but to be honest it was second nature.

My lad today was supremely crafty too; he'd go really quiet then have a violent yank down and charge off. I'm sticking with the current system as I believe it will work, if I can get a bit better and braver (twice I did wonder if he was about to simply ditch me, as he was so wound up and bouncing both ends, I got the distinct impression he wanted rid of me so he could get on with it ).

Having said that, we did have a terrific day! I am sure both of us will sort it out. Apart from anything, I'm hoping he will simply find it less and less exciting with more trips out... Do keep us posted on how you get on! PM if you like, we can compare notes!

 

[maggiesmum]

i cant put anything too strong in or he fights it big time and is actually more dangerous. with this bit i also wrapped a flash strap between the cheek piece rings to act as a leather curb and limit the poll action.

Good idea, might try that one!

 

[skewby]

Doesn't a curb create poll action though??

 

[ester]

have read thread with interest and thankful that we seem ok in a pelham!

a leather curb strap will limit the poll pressure because it limits the angle that the bit can get to.

P. don't be too scared of double reins, they are easier than you might think, I had never ridden in them before but wanted to use them for showing and found after a couple of practices they were really not too complicated. I chucked sis on to show him back in the summer and she had never used them before and got on fine. Give them a try in the arena and see how they feel.

 

[star]

Doesn't a curb create poll action though??

no, poll action is created by the length of the lever (ie the bit shank). stick a curb chain on (be it leather or metal) and as you pull on the lever, you get pressure on the poll and pressure in the curb groove and depending on the length of the curb, at some point the bit wont be able to rotate anymore and so you limit the poll pressure. this is why having a loose curb chain is not as nice as people think as it just give more room for extra poll pressure to be created.

PS - i have also hunted in a pelham with 2 reins or a double bridle and you get used to the 2nd rein. i tied it in a knot at first and just left it on his neck - picked it up when i needed brakes!

 

[Patches]

Judging by P's antics, I reckon I would need to tie a knot in the snaffle rein and just use the curb one! LMAO! (only kidding!)

 

[star]

you'd be surprised - the good old nutcracker action of a plain single jointed snaffle is surprisingly effective and then if they're really pissing off then a quick pull on the curb gives them a bit of a shock. if you're always pulling they just tune out.

 

[skewby]

I agree it's the shank length above the bit that creates the poll pressure - but I don't believe the curb strap limits it. The curb strap is there to squish the tongue and chin, crudely put. Not a big distinction, but I think it's misleading to say that's all it does - you're creating a pretty strong vice on his lower jaw to do it! More correctly, I think you're asking him to bring his jaw towards you. Not necessarily just by poll pressure.

I think it's confusing as lots of thiings cause poll pressure, and that's misleading. It's easier to talk about curb vs gag action I think! As both (logically) will cause pressure on the poll. I think of it more as, curb action lowers, gag action highers. Good, detailed explanations are at http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php.

Sorry Patches, total tangent. I'll only come back to tell you my latest hunting exploits!

 

[star]

putting the curb strap on definitely limits how far the bit rotates in the mouth coz i was playing around with it before deciding how tight to do the curb strap. without it, the shanks come up to the horizontal which obviously creates more poll pressure. depending on how tight i did the curb strap, it definitely limited how far the lower shank rotated which limits how much the cheekpiece ring is pulled down and so how much poll pressure is created.

gags create their head raising effect by lifting the bit in the mouth - they do also have poll action so you've got a bit of head raising and head lowering. pelhams etc have no head raising effect so you've just got poll action with the added curb action which gives the head lowering effect. i had to do an awful lot of reading about bits whilst deciding what best to put him in as he is quite complicated to bit!

 

[Echo Bravo]

Try a kineton noseband, she pulls it puts the pressure on her nostrils, so she should ease off