Horse & Evil Dogs......where would I stand?

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Sessle

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Can anyone give me some advice on where I stand should the following occur?

Basically, where I keep the neddies, I have to go down a track to the field, only about 200 yards or so, its a bridle path and public footpath so quiet, but it does however have a house on either side, one belonging to my landlord, the other belonging to some posh farmer type.
So posh farmer type has 4 dogs, 2 of which are a pain in the bum! Whenever they're out (as they basically get free reign and they don't watch over them), and I ride or lead the horses past they run out behind them, barking and usually try to bite at their heals, although never actually successfully bite them. My older horses are used to this, so don't bother, my young lad however isn't and although he's quite bold, he hasn't encountered them doing this yet, so I'm just curious as to where I would stand should the dogs come running out behind him and he booted one of them and injured them?
They are known for being a pain, and the owners are well aware that we find them a nuisance!

Anybody know??
 
I'd say it serves the dog right if he gets a kick - the owners are well aware of you and should keep their dogs under control. The horse is acting in self-defence.
 
Yeah, well thats what I thought, I'm just not sure where I'd stand legally should something happen, as I wouldn't like to have to pay a huge vet bill for the gastly dogs!!
 
I've had a few dog related incidents over the past few years! Where I live the local police and Environmental Health section of the council have always taken me very seriously. I think I'm lucky though, as by reading other threads, it sounds as though it varies up and down the country as to how seriously the police and council take these types of incidents.

The law is that a dog should not threaten a member of the public, and you have a right to walk your horse down the bridlepath without being threatened by an out of control dog.

If you do go down the route of contacting the police or council though, beware of falling out with the neighbours. It might be better to knock on the door and have a friendly word with him first.
 
Legally, if the dogs are uncontrolled on a public right of way then if your horse did injure one then im pretty sure the owner cant 'get' you for anything.

Have you tried speaking to the 'posh farmer type'. He'll no doubt understand your concern and will probably be concerned for his animals welfare and his bank accounts welfare also should anything happen to your horse.
 
I'm not sure about the law in the Uk, but in South Africa, if the dog is not on the owner's property and it gets injured, tough t*tty for the owner. My horse double-barrelled a nasty dog that used to come out of the owner's property onto the road and snap around his heels on hacks. One day he just snapped... After that, the owner used to shut his gates.
 
Amymay - Yes they are aware that they're a nuisance, but they are 'city' folk living in the country and tbh as nice as they are they really haven't got a clue! They keep themselves to themselves as well, the dogs toilet all over their garden and they have young children but have never said anything!

Pinkpony - Yeah we told Posh farmer, I'm always screaming at the dogs to get away, and they have bitten me (albeit not badly) twice and have been informed but still do nothing! I'm pretty sure he's not too fussed about his dogs, one of their puppies got run over because they weren't watching it :(

We've tried to keep it away with normal crops, but we've never actually hit it, one lady that rides up the bridlepath did wallop it once, but it made no difference! Hunting whip may be different though.....
 
having a fair bit of experience with this sort of thing, I think it sounds as though it's in the dogs best interests that these people do get a shake up by the police or Environmental Health department of your Council, before they get kicked or cause another horse rider to have a serious accident.

If a wild animal was attacking people, then efforts would be made to cull it. It's sort of similar with domesticated animals, but instead of a cull a warning or an enforcement order will be issued, making the owners secure their property - The owners of any animal have to be able to control it when it's in a public place, otherwise they are liable for prosecution.

I've had it confirmed to me by the police and EH that if my horse kicked and injured/killed a dog which was threatening him, then the dogs owner would still be liable. The dogs owner can not put the blame onto you, in fact quite the opposite - theoretically if your horse sprained a ligament kicking the dog, you could sue the dead dogs owner and claim for your vet bill and any other damages, like stress, or if you had to take a couple of days off work!
 
Thanks Misinterpreted, thats really informative, thank you :)
I hadn't thought of the dog warden, I'm sure I could get some info from one through work.
Thanks everyone, you've all been very helpful! :)
 
Very sorry to hear that your having troubles with dogs! Ive had my fair few with my new mare (bought her in August) and already have had 3 accidents with dogs 1 involving me falling off and my horse falls backwards down a hill..

But after I told my RI and friends and they said that you have to report it to your local council and on the BHS website there is also a report thing on there to report it, because apantly there isnt actully an act that if a horse kicks a dog even in self-defence the owner can still come back and sue you for it.

So I had to report it because the BHS are trying to get a new law put in place so that horse riders have something to fall back on.

For example the dogs that have chased my mare, if M turned around and kicked them back even if M was bitten aswell, the owner could then turn around and sue me.

So if I was you id deffo look into contacting someone or even just speaking to someone from the BHS and see what they say.

Theres a lot of posts on here saying that the dog owners would be liable but there isnt a law that confirms that yet. So if your horse did kick out, yes your explinations would be heared as the dog would bite your horse first etc but theres not a law to say that it was the dogs fault, only the horses and the horses owner would be sued!

Very anoying and I can feel your anger! A dog comes out of the gardens into my field trying to heard up the horses etc .. farmer has told us that if he see's the dog in his feild (next to ours) or over the road then hes going to shoot it as hes got to protect his livestock .. have told the owners but they dont care! makes me wonder why people own such animals! its not fair on the animal!

Sorry hugeee essay!!
 
If the dogs have already bitten you, you should report the owners to police. Imagine if a child was walking past...?
I'd say the owners would then get a visit from the dog warden and maybe even a court summons - you don't and shouldn't have to put up with strange dogs biting you!
 
Mace spray in their eyes if you can get close enough, or water pistol with some chile laced water in it.
Failing that take a big hammer and crack them one, I have had to do similar in the past, I refuse to be intimidated by anyones dog when I am in a public place
 
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GypsyGirl said:
Very sorry to hear that your having troubles with dogs! Ive had my fair few with my new mare (bought her in August) and already have had 3 accidents with dogs 1 involving me falling off and my horse falls backwards down a hill..

But after I told my RI and friends and they said that you have to report it to your local council and on the BHS website there is also a report thing on there to report it, because apantly there isnt actully an act that if a horse kicks a dog even in self-defence the owner can still come back and sue you for it.

So I had to report it because the BHS are trying to get a new law put in place so that horse riders have something to fall back on.

For example the dogs that have chased my mare, if M turned around and kicked them back even if M was bitten aswell, the owner could then turn around and sue me.

So if I was you id deffo look into contacting someone or even just speaking to someone from the BHS and see what they say.

Theres a lot of posts on here saying that the dog owners would be liable but there isnt a law that confirms that yet. So if your horse did kick out, yes your explinations would be heared as the dog would bite your horse first etc but theres not a law to say that it was the dogs fault, only the horses and the horses owner would be sued!

Very anoying and I can feel your anger! A dog comes out of the gardens into my field trying to heard up the horses etc .. farmer has told us that if he see's the dog in his feild (next to ours) or over the road then hes going to shoot it as hes got to protect his livestock .. have told the owners but they dont care! makes me wonder why people own such animals! its not fair on the animal!

Sorry hugeee essay!!
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Sorry GG, you are wrong.

I have been in this exact same scenario and after full legal consultation, the position is:

If the dog causes a risk, the dog owner must be made aware. If they still do not address/rectify the problem and an incident occurs, then they are deemed to have been entirely negligent. If the dog is injured then the dog owner is wholly liable for the costs and if your horse is injured the dog owner is liable for the costs. If you are injured, the costs to the dog owner could easily run into tens of thousands of pounds and if your injury is life changing their costs would be astronomical - in the absence of insurance they would have to raise the funds through any other way.

My advice would be to maybe video the problem or get other witness evidence. Approach your local Police and inform them of the situation - but do not hand over your original evidence. Ask their advice and either a) visit the dog owner yourself, inform them that their animals are causing a risk of injury to yourself and your horse and ask them to address the problem so that the situation is safe or b) ask the Police to visit the owner and advise accordingly. Either way, make a full record of the action and the outcome. If the situation continues, keep gathering any evidence you wish or feel necessary as when an incident occurs you can then prove that all steps were taken to prevent the situation occurring.
 
Thanks everyone, may go and have an informal chat at the local police station aswell, and make a decision based on what they say, but thats a good idea to film it too! Theirs already lots of witnesses who dislike the dogs!
I do like the idea of chile laced water pistol though!! Thats gotta hurt!!
 
Sessle said:
Thanks everyone, may go and have an informal chat at the local police station aswell, and make a decision based on what they say, but thats a good idea to film it too! Theirs already lots of witnesses who dislike the dogs!
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Why not just report it officially to the dog warden. That way action will be taken.
 
Rather than attack the poor dog perhaps you could look into this in a more legal way. It seems like the owners don't give a damn so they are the people that need reprimanding rather than the dogs. How do the dogs know that this is wrong behaviour if they are not told to stop.

Go to the local dog warden, police and anyone else that you can think off and also go to the owners and warn them that the dogs have bitten you, are a danger and you will report them, make it clear that it isn't acceptable and ask what they will do about it. Then report them.

Spraying mace, chilli water or whacking them with a large stick is not the answer.
 
lochpearl said:
Rather than attack the poor dog perhaps you could look into this in a more legal way. It seems like the owners don't give a damn so they are the people that need reprimanding rather than the dogs. How do the dogs know that this is wrong behaviour if they are not told to stop.

Go to the local dog warden, police and anyone else that you can think off and also go to the owners and warn them that the dogs have bitten you, are a danger and you will report them, make it clear that it isn't acceptable and ask what they will do about it. Then report them.

Spraying mace, chilli water or whacking them with a large stick is not the answer.
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I completely agree.
 
I wouldn't actually harm them! Although it is tempting sometimes! I have tried to befriend the dogs in an attempt to make them less hostile but it doesn't work! I don't think their mentally stimulated enough really, they do the odd bit of farm stuff but then get left at the house to do whatever!

Thanks for everyone's advice, have taken it all on board!
 
The dogs are uncontrolled and in a public place. This is covered by the dangerous dogs act and the police should support you in getting it stopped. If your horse kicks them tell him to aim for the flank, he'll do most damage there. A word with the owners would be a good idea, just to make them aware of the danger their muts are in. I don't think you'd be held responsible for any vet fees, your horse is reacting normally.
 
We have quite a few dogs on our loop round the village, the first one a collie that hides in the hedge and on approach leaps up and barks, you know it is there but it still scares the bejesus out of you. Next one is 2 little terrier things that run in the bushes bark and leap out. Third is a lab which comes running out at you barking, he can just get to the verge and he has one of those electric collars on so he does actually stop, but it you talk to him when he is running at you he is more calm. The next are dogs on a huge estate, they come from nowhere and then chase you the length of the road, again, if you make a fuss of them, they calm down. The worst are the next dogs and they are Rotties and big ones at that, if they are out they will chase and nip at the horses feet - this I was told was because they were originally bred for herding cattle, so I guess they think of the horses as cattle, but they can also be very aggressive. We now go overboard on chatting to them and making a fuss and gooey noises and they don't even bark. In fairness the dogs you are experiencing are probably just looking for something to do if they have no stimulation or care at home.

I know it is scary but could be a way to try with them. What dogs are they?
 
They're collie dogs and live outside, 2 of them are quite friendly, but these other 2 are just horrid. We've tried talking to them, I've even tried playing with them and sometimes they're better, but it seems to be dependant on what sort of 'mood' they're in, as sometimes it'l help but other times make no difference.
 
Right, I understand and I guess they are trying to herd the horses like sheep. I really hope you find a way to stop this but definitely go through the 'legal' routes first. Good luck.
 
Some years ago I was hacking my horse along a country lane and two dogs ran out from behind me and viciously attacked my horse. They went for her legs and neck and brought her down on the road. I eventually managed to fight them off with my schooling whip but by then they had caused injuries to my horse who required several months of veterinary care and eventually recovered but has never been happy with dogs since then.

I visited the farmer/landowner concerned but he became abusive so I left.

I contacted our local rural police oficer and also the district council dog warden both of which warned the farmer/landowner of the consequences of any further attacks and that the dogs must be kept on their property.

I later discovered that several other locals had been attacked by these dogs but they had not done anything about it because they did not want a confrontation with the farmet/landowner concered.
 
I regularly hack past a cottage where the farm collie has tried similar. I level my schooling whip at it and tell it to "Get n cwtch" - welsh speak for "get and lie down"...always works a treat!
Have you ever tried knocking and asking nicely if he could possibly better contain the doglets - they are only doing their job, of protecting his house - they are dumb animals, they dont realise you are only hacking past.
 
OWLIE185 said:
I later discovered that several other locals had been attacked by these dogs but they had not done anything about it because they did not want a confrontation with the farmet/landowner concered.
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I would not bother approaching a dangerous dogs owner - the dog is most likely dangerous in the first place because it has an irrational, and agressive owner - I now tend to go straight to the authorities, and this way they have accurate records of known problem dog owners and dogs, and if too many incidents happen they can act to prevent further accidents. I think it's everyones's duty to report such incidents. Imagine if a young girl on her pony was attacked and injured. That accident could have been avoided if the previous person, or people who were attacked had issued a complaint about the dangerous dog to the authoritues.
 
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