Horse fraud

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Chesni

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Ok so I've got a supposedly 15hh 5 yr old chestnut welsh section D gelding that I bought from a breaking yard in October.

I have his passport in which all of this information matches. The horse however still has his baby teeth suggesting he is more than likely no more than 3 years old. He was advertised as being gelded however I don't believe that he is. (Will check if I can get him to stand still!).

He was supposedly 5 stage vetted however the owner said he'd send the paperwork on once he'd received it. Now, nearly 3 months later I still haven't received it and in reply to questioning on the matter he says he will have to contact his previous owner to see if she has the paperwork.

He was also advertised as being very easy to do, ridden by novice riders and "a superstar in the making". When I tried him out he was incredibly calm, safe to ride and generally lovely to groom and be around. Once arriving home I left him to settle for a few days. I rode him in the school in which he felt very wobbly but I thought fair enough as h was only recently backed. The next few times I tried to ride him, he bucked and reared. He has no manners on the ground, keeps jumping out of his field and barges/pulls everyone over. You can't lead him in a headcollar and getting him to stand still is impossible. (I doubt any of this is due to my lack of experience as I have had youngsters and thoroughbreds before.)

So do I have any come back for the £2000 he cost me? If I can have a vet confirm his real age and perhaps for false advertising?

Any advice or ideas appreciated!
Thanks
 
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Kezzabell2

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really sorry to hear this :(

does he have any adult teeth or are they all sit baby teeth? my boy will be 5 in May and he's got the 2 bottom teeth left to fall out, the last 2 at the top have just come out, so id expect your horse should be similar!

what is his build like? does he look immature? as mine looks very much like an adult horse, despite being off work since September.

I'm not really sure where you stand, probably no where, if im honest! but maybe see if the yard are decent, if they will take him back and maybe sort him out before returning him to you! if they don't want a rep of selling unsuitable horses?
 
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risky business

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twiggy2 said:
you have had him 3 months and don't know if he is gelded? really?

I suggest you get a vet out to age the horse, get him vaccinated and see if he is entire and go from there
Click to expand...

This..

I find it difficult to take in that you've had this horse for 3 months but have no idea if he is gelded?
 
Sparkles

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I'm not going to take this seriously. Fidgeting or not, it is obvious af 5 if the horse is gelded or carrying a pair or bot.
 
flaxen

flaxen

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Fidgeting or not, it is obvious af 5 if the horse is gelded or carrying a pair or bot.[/QUOTE]


If he has a set of undescended testicles then it will not be obvious if he is gelded or not especially if he is being colty and riggy.
 
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smellsofhorse

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Who did the vetting?
Surely you would have booked a vet and got the report and opinion of the vet.
Even if as at some yards horse had already been vetted you should have seen the report before deciding to buy.

The change in temperament could just be the change of home, I've had my TB nearly 8 years.
I know him very well.
In October we had a big move from Somerset to the new forest.
He is still settling and has been a right PITA! seemingly like a different horse.
We are gradually getting there but if i had just bough him, had tried him at his old home and seeing him now, id have though he had been drugged!

Assess his management and feed etc.
It should be obvious if he has been gelded or not, unless he is a rig and has a retained testicle.

Get a vet to check his teeth and testical situation!
 
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Firefly9410

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You need a vet to give you an approximate age, check if teeth are sharp and to see if he has been gelded or not. The vet can sedate if the horse will not stand still. There should be a microchip number in the passport and the vet can scan the horse for this too, to check it matches. The breaking yard sounds like a business so if the horse is not suitable for the job they sold it for, they have to take it back and refund. They do not sound like a reputable business unfortunately so I expect you would have trouble getting a return and refund to happen.

For the future if you buy another horse you should arrange the vetting with a vet of your choice who is not also the sellers vet. You should pay for the vetting and receive any paperwork after. The vet deals with you as prospective purchaser not the horses current owner. Have your own vetting even if the owner is saying the horse was vetted last week and passed.

Are you a novice? You mention that the seller stated the horse has been ridden by novices that is why I ask. At the breaking yard there would have been experienced people riding and handling too. A horse handled and ridden only by a novice will often go downhill in training and behaviour. I agree with the other person who said the yard move could account for the change in behaviour as well, some horses find it very stressful and take months to settle properly. Have you had any riding lessons on this horse?

If you cannot lead in a headcollar then lead in a bridle or lunge cavesson or dually headcollar for example. If the horse has no manners start teaching it some simple things and verbal cues like walk on and halt whilst leading next to you, to step back from a poke in the chest, to move the quarters over. It should not be that difficult to teach these things then you can at least lead the horse from field to stable safely. If you are a novice you might need professional help with this.

Have you spoke to the breaking yard about the horses life there, specifically workload, amount and type of food given, time spend turned out and stabled? If you have drastically altered the horses routine it could be that the current system does not suit him.

It is not a great start to the new year but there is still hope for you to turn this situation round and have a pleasant to handle and ride horse at the end of it. If you want to pursue a refund I believe the small claims court can help you. Sorry this post is so long! :)
 
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Chesni

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No, he doesn't have any balls between his legs. I'm not a complete idiot. As suggested I think he may be riggy as he keeps breaking out of his field to get to the neighbours mare that's in season.
His passport all seems legitimate with regards to markings etc. however he really doesn't seem to be 5 years old. He still has his bottom baby teeth and at 5 and a half would expect to be gone by now.
Thanks for anyone with sensible replies.
 
Wagtail

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Chesni said:
He was advertised as being gelded however I don't believe that he is. (Will check if I can get him to stand still!).
Click to expand...

This is what you stated. You said that you would check when he stands still. Now you are saying that he doesn't have any balls and that you are not stupid. But you have managed to contradict yourself in only two posts...
 
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cronkmooar

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Is it a WPCS passport?

If so, there is a certificate part in the passport that is signed by the vet on castration or subsequent examination.

My Section A is 5 so your passport will have been issued the same year and should be the same.

The very first page after opening the cover is green paper not white. Front of page has name and microchip bar code, back of same page - ie page 2 has stallion licence at the top and certificate of castration underneath.

Is this green page in your passport and completed?

If so it will have the name address and signature of the castrating vet and you will be able to contact them regarding the castration and they will be duty bound to provide the information.

If the green page is not there and the first page in the passport is white which is headed Details of ownership then it would suggest the page has been removed
 
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Chesni

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By having a "proper look" I didn't mean I'm just going to stand there and look at it. I'll have a proper feel around etc. Why do ignorant people always have to provide their idiotic input? seriously it's a genuine question. I wanted to know if I would have any come back if the horse turned out not to be the one on the passport or for false advertising. I can do without the idiots thanks
 
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Chesni

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The centre is a white page with his markings etc. on. The page itself is different paper to the rest of the passport however looks as if it is supposed to be there and hasn't been altered at all. His markings all seem to match up. I guess maybe he just has late baby teeth. I think the only thing to do is get his microchip checked and the vet to properly look at his teeth.
 
twiggy2

twiggy2

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Chesni said:
By having a "proper look" I didn't mean I'm just going to stand there and look at it. I'll have a proper feel around etc. Why do ignorant people always have to provide their idiotic input? seriously it's a genuine question. I wanted to know if I would have any come back if the horse turned out not to be the one on the passport or for false advertising. I can do without the idiots thanks
Click to expand...

It is a serious question-what are you looking for? they are either there or they are not, horses ones are not small
 
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