Horse gets artificial leg!! WTF was they thinking?

Miss L Toe said:
Four years this poor thing has suffered, and how is he going to have a normal life, gallops are out, and playing with his friends, are out, it just shows how cruel owners can be, not to mention vets.
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We won't ever stop the progress of science and technology. We won't ever stop humans feeling they can make a difference. After all, do we not do the best by our animals? The majority of us anyway....with over 6 billion people on this planet (probably many more now TBH...) there will be someone who thinks that can do the best by their animals better than us. Not everyone agrees with 'The Bullet' everytime but to someone, they are doing the best by their beloved animal.

We are going to have to deal with it I'm afraid. At some point, someone WILL create a false limb for a horse which will do the job like a proper leg.
 
Medicine both in human world and animal is moving forward all the time...

People & horses are living longer due to pioneering steps take by people who know allot more about these things than i and surly many of you do. If these steps aren't taken then we would still be using leeches and drilling holes in our heads to relieve headaches!!

I appreciate that this is a bit more than a headache but if these things aren't tried and eventually approved upon then horses are going to be put down when they break a leg when in years in the future who knows what we'll be able to do.
 
hudsonw said:
Medicine both in human world and animal is moving forward all the time...

People & horses are living longer due to pioneering steps take by people who know allot more about these things than i and surly many of you do. If these steps aren't taken then we would still be using leeches and drilling holes in our heads to relieve headaches!!

I appreciate that this is a bit more than a headache but if these things aren't tried and eventually approved upon then horses are going to be put down when they break a leg when in years in the future who knows what we'll be able to do.
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But this goes against the entire physiological and instinctive make up of the horse. Surely those are things that need to be taken into consideration?

In the sporting world which is where the money to fund such developments and operations would be (compared to you're average leisure owner who would probably have a battle on with any insurance complany!), what use would a horse with a prosthetic limb be? The animal would never be able to perform again and unless it's purely to keep a horse alive purely for breeding purposes (and even then it would only be even remotely conceivable for a stallion and not a broodmare)

It's just not right.
 
cattysmith said:
But this goes against the entire physiological and instinctive make up of the horse. Surely those are things that need to be taken into consideration?

In the sporting world which is where the money to fund such developments and operations would be (compared to you're average leisure owner who would probably have a battle on with any insurance complany!), what use would a horse with a prosthetic limb be? The animal would never be able to perform again and unless it's purely to keep a horse alive purely for breeding purposes (and even then it would only be even remotely conceivable for a stallion and not a broodmare)

It's just not right.
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The money is in the sporting world but if the sporting world kick start the pioneering work then eventually it becomes more wildly available, cheaper and more advanced and the becomes within the reach of the leisure owner.
There are many people who have horses as field ornaments and don't necessarily want a horse to "perform" and don't see horses as a useless, unnecessary expense just because the horse can no longer "perform" but that is a whole different debate.

There are many things which we do with horses and other animals which go against their instincts but we have done them for century's and over the years things have improved from medicine, the way we keep/look after a horse, what we feed etc etc Hopefully over the years we have done things for the better but it started somewhere and as long as we can learn form the past then things in the future will be better.

In years from now hopefully the technology will have improved and you won't even be able to tell that a horse has a fake leg...maybe they can be ridden, compete who knows but without Vets, scientists and owners trying new things now then we'll never know.
 
On reading a bit more of the horses story, it was turned out in the field, and some more horses got in and they had a hooly round, ended up with this horses prosthetic limb being bent!! and the bone again!!! protruding through the flesh!!

A human would have the sence to not hooly round, would hope so any way! and would be able to comumicate that he or she was in pain, this horse would not be able to do that.

A friend of mine has a prosthetic leg and has for many years ( he used to be a footballer and from an accident on the pitch lost his leg, long story) but he suffers so much from sores on the stump, but at least he can sit down and rest! also he has pain from other joints due to them compensating for the loss of leg!

It's not as simple as oh he has lost a leg! give him a new one!
 
QUICKFIRE said:
It's not as simple as oh he has lost a leg! give him a new one!
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No it's not but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

It's not even close to being a perfect solution and it's very early stages in the whole prosthetic limb process but that doesn't meant things can't get better, improve and who know where it will end up.

I would rather they try and fail then not bother at all.
 
hudsonw said:
No it's not but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

It's not even close to being a perfect solution and it's very early stages in the whole prosthetic limb process but that doesn't meant things can't get better, improve and who know where it will end up.

I would rather they try and fail then not bother at all.
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So if your horse broke its leg in the field or whatever! God forbid.. and you had an undentable amount of money! you would put him / her through all of the process of having a false leg, AND all the accociated pain, bones protruding though flesh and having them trussed up in a sling for days weeks so the flesh could heal enough to be able to fit the false leg, could you put your horse, the one you love through this, Im not trying to start a arguement, just being nosey to who would put their horses through it, maybe somone cleverer than me could do a poll??
 
I am very anti putting a horse down because it is no longer useful to you, and I would go to the ends of the earth to mend my horses, but I can hand on heart say that I would never ever subject one of my equines to that :(
 
When a horse is a long term laminitic and has suffered loss of good circulation the coffin bone will often develop a 'ski tip' and can never lay down adequate tissue. It's also common to find demineralisation with long term pathology.

It's therefore no surprise that the bone supporting the prosthesis developed such a spur.

It's interesting from a research POV. But the horse was never going to be viable.
 
QUICKFIRE said:
So if your horse broke its leg in the field or whatever! God forbid.. and you had an undentable amount of money! you would put him / her through all of the process of having a false leg, AND all the accociated pain, bones protruding though flesh and having them trussed up in a sling for days weeks so the flesh could heal enough to be able to fit the false leg, could you put your horse, the one you love through this, Im not trying to start a arguement, just being nosey to who would put their horses through it, maybe somone cleverer than me could do a poll??
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If my vet had the knowledge, equipment and the prospect of an good end prognoses then i think most horse owners would try...We do so many things for our horses that 10, 25, 50 years ago we couldn't do or if we did the end result would still result in the horse being pts.

I'm not saying that this case brought up by the OP is the best example or the right thing for that horse but I'm trying to say that without these owners, vets etc etc then these procedures will never be attempted and we will never know if these kind of operations can be preformed.
This is obviously in very early stages which could look brutal but if experience is gained, procedures can be improved and eventually leading to a positive outcome for everyone then surely this could be great for horses and owners alike???
 
But if science didn't keep pushing we'd all still be dying from consumption and the pox. Even at the basic level if you view it like an experiment that the horse was put through then some good would come from it?
 
I have mixed feelings about this but do agree that animals should benefit from medical advances just the same as us. I have no problem with it providing the horse can manage with the prosthesis but I don't think it should be done so we can continue to ride the horse or 'use' the horse, this is bound to put extra strain on the limb and other limbs.
As for the pain involved. Well, there are powerful painkillers for the surgery and immediate after math just like for humans. We routinely impose box rest for long periods on horses and perform surgery on their legs and their bodies as well as extensive resections etc. on their hooves, where is the difference? If you look at it unemotionally, our feelings about it are more personal than logical.
 
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millreef said:
But if science didn't keep pushing we'd all still be dying from consumption and the pox. Even at the basic level if you view it like an experiment that the horse was put through then some good would come from it?
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Agree. Dr Chris Pollitt's research in laminitis has brought many breakthroughs - but it's not pretty. He gets Standardbreds ex trotters from the 'kill auction', induces laminitis, then PTS and then does necropsy.

Dr Bowker's research in navicular and hoof pathologies has been amazing - but each breakthrough has been following the death of a horse.

It's an ugly business - but it's benefits are huge.

I think the problem from Riley has been that it wasn't under experimental conditions, so nothing helpful will come from it.
 
Oh dear...! I am in the Quality of life rather than the Quantity. The money spent on this horse could have saved countless other healthy horses that are probably being mistreated or rescue centre support etc.

Is it living a horses life or a human life? Fright and flight isnt available for this horse?

Sometimes the vets need to say "no more ",surely? This was more for the owners benefit and human emotion than the welfare of this horse. A sad day indeed.
 
amandap said:
I have mixed feelings about this but do agree that animals should benefit from medical advances just the same as us. I have no problem with it providing the horse can manage with the prosthesis but I don't think it should be done so we can continue to ride the horse or 'use' the horse, this is bound to put extra strain on the limb and other limbs.
As for the pain involved. Well, there are powerful painkillers for the surgery and immediate after math just like for humans. We routinely impose box rest for long periods on horses and perform surgery and extensive resections on their legs and hooves as well as their bodies, where is the difference? If you look at it unemotionally, our feelings about it are more personal than logical.
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I agree with this but anyone that has ever looked after a human post amputee its terrible they have lots of phantom pains and still think their pain is in their leg as their brain still tells them their leg is still attached to their body. They cry at night etc etc it takes a long time for their body to realise its gone...not sure about horses etc. Its very distressing to witness this. But as I say not sure about horses..and its about being realistic too.
 
indie999 said:
I agree with this but anyone that has ever looked after a human post amputee its terrible they have lots of phantom pains and still think their pain is in their leg as their brain still tells them their leg is still attached to their body. They cry at night etc etc it takes a long time for their body to realise its gone...not sure about horses etc. Its very distressing to witness this. But as I say not sure about horses..and its about being realistic too.
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This has to be applied to all non human animals then including cats and dogs...

I do think the nerve responses post amputation varies hugely in humans.
 
amandap said:
This has to be applied to all non human animals then including cats and dogs...

I do think the nerve responses post amputation varies hugely in humans.
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Absolutely but all the human amputees I ever came across at night time was worse. Although most were for gangrene not for ie blown off leg in bomb/mine etc.

I would not put my horse through this though.
 
I don't think it's right at all, but, wasn't there a valuable race stallion many years ago that broke a leg, (A hind one as far as I can recall) and they fitted it with a prosthetic limb and it carried on its stallion duties? Perhaps someone with a better memory than mine call remember its name?
 
indie999 said:
I would not put my horse through this though.
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I think this is what it is down to in the end and it is difficult to say it's right or wrong because us humans have such very different feelings which is fair enough.
:)

I've no idea what I would do tbh. The financial implications would probably rule it out for my horses though.
 
'So, we have to make the choice for them. And, with adequate pain relief, I'm prepared to accept that someone/horse has to be the first recipient of any pioneering surgery.'

This horse lay down for days one nd. It had to be supported in a sling. There is no adequate pain relief for a wound on a stump that has to have a prosthetic leg back on it. Every couple of months (at the most) it had more severe problems.
Regarding 'we have to keep pushing'. No, actually we don't. We have a responsibility to say that enough is enough. A horse doesn't understand it can't gallop anymore, can't jump without damaging its leg. A human prosthetic wearer does. A human prosthetic wearer takes it off at night, so thats a good rest. You cannot draw parallels.
There are studies on these horses-the maximum survival was 3 years. Most lived 9months of paina nd suffering. How is that acceptable?

Horses don't cry out in pain, doesn't mean they arent in it.
 
So do all these people in favour of experimenting for the good of science and treatment agree with testing medication on ickle fluffy bunnies? And poor cutesie monkeys?

I find the amount of people on here who believe in life at any cost a bit disturbing.
It makes humans feel better, not the animals themselves in most cases.
How do we judge 'happy' - by OUR standards.
And no, I would not ever put a horse of mine on a false leg or a dog of mine on wheels, over my dead body, I prefer to let animals die with dignity.

Oh My God I Agree With SusieT!!! :p :D
 
SusieT said:
Horses don't cry out in pain, doesn't mean they arent in it.
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This is so true and something imo we need to remember always...

CaveCanem said:
So do all these people in favour of experimenting for the good of science and treatment agree with testing medication on ickle fluffy bunnies? And poor cutesie monkeys?
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I don't think you can take motive and circumstance out of the equation and apply a blanket rule.
 
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Amanda I merely wish to point out the hypocrisy. I bed a lot of people who want to see the 'poor pony' hurpling around in a totally unnatural fashion to satiate their needs and expectations of what is 'fair' and 'right' would also be aghast at other forms of animal experimentation.
 
vickyb said:
I don't think it's right at all, but, wasn't there a valuable race stallion many years ago that broke a leg, (A hind one as far as I can recall) and they fitted it with a prosthetic limb and it carried on its stallion duties? Perhaps someone with a better memory than mine call remember its name?
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Dunno about the one you are talking about, but I do remember poor bloody Barbaro, all those procedures and all that surgery and pain and the poor sod got laminitis in the other three legs and had to be PTS after a year anyway.
I don't call that a 'life'.
 
CaveCanem said:
Amanda I merely wish to point out the hypocrisy. I bed a lot of people who want to see the 'poor pony' hurpling around in a totally unnatural fashion to satiate their needs and expectations of what is 'fair' and 'right' would also be aghast at other forms of animal experimentation.
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Is it hypocrisy though? One could be to give a decent quality of life V death and the other is experimenting with no possible benefit for the animal involved.
One could go very wrong but the other is a non starter as far as the animal is concerned.
Then there is the question of 'the greater good' or medical advance as opposed to a 'cosmetic' safety/advance.
 
QUICKFIRE said:
It hasn't though, if you read the story it has had a whole load of complications, and after about a years worth of treatment it has been PTS, surely this prostethic wasn't done in the horses best interests! but the owner not being able to make the final act of kindness any owner has to make, just because science has made it possable dosen't make it kind! IMO!
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Couldn't agree more with this.
 
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