Horse getting very deep to fences

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foxy1

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My horse likes to get very deep to his fences; would you accept that this is how he likes to jump or encourage him to take off further away? I have loose jumped him and he also gets very close, about 2 1/2 or 3 ft from the base of the fence if the fence is 1m, closer if it's smaller! He very rarely touches a pole, so is it a case of if it aint broke......? It doesn't make for a very comfortable jump for me, and we sometimes lose forward momentum as a result.

Thanks for thoughts :)
 
Watching this with interest as my mare does this too.

She got a bit better over XC fences (perhaps because I am better XC? or because we are on a longer, stronger stride), and would listen to me more, but SJ usually pulls hard into a fence, looking to be on a good stride, then chips an extra half stride in at the base. I would describe her as a horse that adores to jump. In eight years, we have only had five stops, so its hard to grumble. It does cause a few fences down though, and, as you say, makes for an uncomfortable jump for me quite often.

If I use grids, she is fine, but will immediately revert to chipping in strides given a chance. She will usually put five strides into a combination where most horses are getting three or four. If I push for longer strides she hates it. I am a bit nervous SJer, and have often wondered about taking her to a pro to jump, see what they think.

Sorry, that was a waffle and not much help! I would answer that, despite not achieving it myself, I think its better to try and change the behaviour - as when the fences get bigger it becomes a bigger deal. My late XC instructor used to say that he preferred a horse that would chip a stride in and have a look to one that leapt into oblivion from a long one.
 
That's interesting that you have the same problem honey08, I'm wondering if it's because my horse is a bit of a chicken?! He never stops (touch wood) but I'm sure he would if I asked him a bigger question and I keep things very much in his comfort zone as I don't feel he is particularly confident.

I don't have an issue with grids either but I have to keep the distances on the short side.

The problem for me as a rider is that it's 'training' me to see really deep strides when jumping other horses too.
 
I know what you mean about being trained too - my other horse has started going off shorter strides too, and that can only be down to me. Previously I always saw longer strides.:(

I think, perhaps, that the shorter stride starts with them wanting a better look at a fence before taking off, so that could be down to confidence?

With my mare, how she goes on the flat is an indication too - she is very very forward, and leans on her forehand. She also feels like she had done years of being in draw reins when broken (I got her at late 6). So she can get overbent - especially if you hold onto her, you get a bouncy short stride (passage in walk) rather than a true forward, from behind, stride. I have to really push her (which feels wrong when she is practically running off sometimes) to get the back end under, then the control and better stride comes. I think that is why I don't get it XC - I can let her go faster, and into a longer, stronger stride, so I don't get the bounce.

Re the stopping if fences got bigger, mine doesn't stop, but will take the whole fence down, crashing through, which isn't good. I've done combinations sometimes where we have done the second or third parts with poles from the first part practically tucked under her chin still.

TBH, I came back from an operation two years ago, and haven't jumped her since as I'm not feeling as confident as I used to about tackling this issue. I really want to get back out doing BE, but have this bridge to cross first..
 
Great William Funnell masterclass on how to train yourself to see a stride in today's H&H magazine, including tips of seeing a stride on a horse that tows you in and horses that back off and chip in due to a lack of power. Might prove helpful to both of you.
 
LEAVE HIM!! :D

This is a good thing SJ wise and if he's leaving them up even better! We always train ours to jump on a closer stride rather than further away as the horse "flattens". Whereas jumping from a deeper stride means they use their shoulders more and arch their backs, giving a much more powerful, correct jump. If its a problem and he is knocking down then I would consider correcting it, but its good that he knows he can go off that stride. A lot of horses struggle as they don't feel confident enough to jump from there.

Like you say, if it ain't broken! :p
 
You could be right RCP, in 3 years I can count the number of times he has had a pole on one hand. Hmmmm maybe I worry too much :D
 
I have this problem with a very careful horse but i find that the more flatwork i do and the more it improves the less he is inclined to get to close to a fence.
Q
 
I would ask where does he land? If it is a normal distance after the fence then fine leave him. But if it is v close to fence (you say he loses momentum, so is he going up and down too vertically like a helicopter
 
...stupid phone sorry!
If like a helicopter then you are right to want to improve his shape over a fence and his take off spot.
Also if he lands miles after the fence (like mine did when I got him) but virtually touches the front pole taking off so close, then this makes riding through a combination tricky. We worked on teaching him to be confident taking off earlier so his bascule over the fence started and ended in right place. If he felt restricted on approach he would keep adding strides until he reached bottom of fence!
 
I think he usually lands a normal distance away but sometimes we get really really close, if he has stopped going forward and then it's an up/down kind of jump!

How did you train yours to be more confident taking off further away?
 
Although I agree that it is good to have a horse who bascules rather than standing off, I would expect one who gets in deep, chips in a half stride and loses momentum to bring it's own problems.

I would work on related distances, encouraging horse to move on after the fence and jump from a rythm rather than getting into the bottom of the fence. Ideally your horse needs to work to standard distances so that you can let the fence come to you and not have to fiddle, if for instance horse is landing short or with no energy you will consistently be half a stride off the next fence, which isn't ideal.
 
Improved his canter which is inclined to be head up, hollow, lacking rhythm. Tried to be soft but consistent through the rein, avoiding temptation to hold him on approach even when he felt like he was rushing! Using seat and weight for control and regulate stride, clear half halt when needed. Always giving rein over fence so he felt unrestricted, as we think in previous life he was caught in gob (accidentally) when he jumped boldly.
Some gridwork but keeping things simple for him, push him too hard and one mistake would make him revert to old style.
Also repetitive stuff, jumping courses with lots changes of direction, encouraging him to keep forward rhythm between fences so the fence comes to us, not us to it!
 
My horse never really takes me to the fence, hmmm I need to work on that too I think. Thanks for your thoughts everyone who has replied :)
 
RCP Equestrian said:
LEAVE HIM!! :D

This is a good thing SJ wise and if he's leaving them up even better! We always train ours to jump on a closer stride rather than further away as the horse "flattens". Whereas jumping from a deeper stride means they use their shoulders more and arch their backs, giving a much more powerful, correct jump. If its a problem and he is knocking down then I would consider correcting it, but its good that he knows he can go off that stride. A lot of horses struggle as they don't feel confident enough to jump from there.

Like you say, if it ain't broken! :p
Click to expand...

agree with this :)
 
Hmm this is a tough one without actually seeing it in person (if that makes sense!) :)

A horse, as you say that canters in and then pops a shorter stride as the last one before jumping it can feel like he's very close and it can feel uncomfortable but sometimes the horse is actually taking off at the right spot, it's just they really condense their last stride to get the power and lift up from the floor.

If however, he's chipping in, almost stopping and crawling over that is something that would need working on, and could be for a number of reasons.
 
A friend has a horse who would chip in an extra stride even when looking to be foot perfect. I passed on the advice on here and what she ended up doing was actually reducing the bit strength and leaving a small crosspole up in the school when working him. He jumped this so often during schooling so that finally he started going off more comfortably. He still needs a much stronger bit XC as tends to take charge and go!
 
There is a difference between a horse you can move up to a deep distance which makes it jump up and around the fence, and one that chips in, or crawls to the base on a weak stride.

My best advice, if you feel something needs to change, is to book in with a jumping coach and get a real life opinion. Failing that, see if you can get some video and compare it to some of the resources available on line to get an idea of what might or might not be happening.
 
Some horses just prefer a deeper shot, as long as it clears the fence - eg has good vertical rise and gets its shoulders out of the way I really don't see why this should be a problem. "Chipping one in" is a different thing though and a problem.

Horses that prefer a deep shot tend to be careful but not very brave in my experience and would perhaps be more inclined to stop at big wide spreads or in combis/doubles - but not at all always the case. If you look at horses jumping without riders they often like to get very deep. Scopey, brave horses can be great for a stand off (my mare is like this) but tend to have more of a problem "propping" and getting deep. In an ideal world you'd want the horse to be able to do both of course but I think it is a matter of training your weaknesses but working with the advantages. A short-strided horse might struggle with distances if the deeper shot lacks power.

If it is just a matter of the horse preferring a deep shot and it keeps fences up, jumps in a nice shape, and makes the distances I really wouldn't worry about it! :)
 
I have a short striding very careful little cob who likes to get in deep and helicopter over jumps, so this is a constant problem for me. The answer for us is to work very hard on the canter.

If the canter is forward and powerful, but with his weight in his quarters and NOT on his forehand, the SJ just flows and the strides come to me and we have an ideal take-off point. If he's not moving forward enough, or he's towing me down to Australia, we have problems every time and he gets in very deep.

So I'd maybe work with an instructor to improve his canter and see if that affects how he jumps.
 
Honey08 said:
Watching this with interest as my mare does this too.

She got a bit better over XC fences (perhaps because I am better XC? or because we are on a longer, stronger stride), and would listen to me more, but SJ usually pulls hard into a fence, looking to be on a good stride, then chips an extra half stride in at the base. I would describe her as a horse that adores to jump. In eight years, we have only had five stops, so its hard to grumble. It does cause a few fences down though, and, as you say, makes for an uncomfortable jump for me quite often.

If I use grids, she is fine, but will immediately revert to chipping in strides given a chance. She will usually put five strides into a combination where most horses are getting three or four. If I push for longer strides she hates it. I am a bit nervous SJer, and have often wondered about taking her to a pro to jump, see what they think.

Sorry, that was a waffle and not much help! I would answer that, despite not achieving it myself, I think its better to try and change the behaviour - as when the fences get bigger it becomes a bigger deal. My late XC instructor used to say that he preferred a horse that would chip a stride in and have a look to one that leapt into oblivion from a long one.
Click to expand...



OMG do we have the same horse??? My noble steed is exactly the same - one stride doubles r usually 1 1/2s etc..... n its awful when u see a "long on" that they could take easily n shove in a poxy stride making u flop on their neck and hat over ur eyes! I am working on more forward canter into fences and shortenening and lengthing his stride when I ask rather than when he decides.... he is a bit better - have also cheated and put the ground bpole too far out infront of uprights, use arrohead poles to get him to take off sooner - :)
 
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