Horse going for xrays *Update*

fidleyspromise

fidleyspromise

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We took her to vets and the vet had me trot her up. He flexed her front legs and checked her knees, but there's no swelling etc so he believes that x-rays won't show anything at this stage. He then wanted to see her lunged but I didn't have line on me.

He followed us to yard and watched her lunged on hard surface. She steps short but not lame. Nerve Blocked the near fore. Lunged her. No difference. Flexed hinds and she's 1/10ths lame on near hind. (which we knew).

The advice is to put egg bar shoes on fronts, see if there's a difference and continue to ride her (if I'm happy to). It is so subtle, and until she's lame, they can't choose a route to take.
If I ride her, and she goes lame, they then have a starting point.


When the first vet came, there was ice everywhere so he only saw her trot on a very short ice-free surface so her legs maybe looked worse?
 
Has he told you to put eggbar shoes on a long term barefoot horse without even xraying the feet to see if the balance of her bones inside the feet is correct?

The horse does not nerve block with unsoundness to the feet. What does he say is the purpose of the eggbars?
 
Surely it's better to try and get to the bottom of this sooner rather than shoeing and carrying on until things get worse so it's easier to diagnose? I am a bit gobsmacked now I've thought about it.
 
amymay said:
I wouldn't be happy with that.

Why put egg bar shoes on if they don't know the cause of the lameness?
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Another that agrees, also just because there is no swelling does not indicate nothing will show on xray, swelling is soft tissue, there could be bony changes that have not yet caused any inflammation.
 
Bare with me. I feel so confused, so answering as best I can. :)

CPTrayes - sorry, being dumb. What do you mean by "The horse does not nerve block with unsoundness to the feet"?

She's been barefoot since August. She's 11 years old.
He said the point of the shoes would be to raise the heel and see if this reduces the stumbling. (Does this sound right?). He wants us to just shoe the fronts.
When checking her he was checking for swelling on knee, leg, joints etc and also checking capillaries(SP?) I think was what he said.

All I want is to do the best for my horse and I'm so out of my depth. Starting to regret not having her insured now.
 
fidleyspromise said:
Bare with me. I feel so confused, so answering as best I can. :)

CPTrayes - sorry, being dumb. What do you mean by "The horse does not nerve block with unsoundness to the feet"?
Click to expand...


You're not being dumb at all, you are just inexperienced at all this stuff :)

Your horse is short striding in both front legs. The vet nerve blocked one foot and it did not make any difference. A horse which is bilaterally lame, often a cause of short striding, will go lame on the other foot if nerve blocked in one foot.

So your horse is short striding and no-one knows why, but it is not due to any obvious lameness in the feet.





She's been barefoot since August. She's 11 years old.
He said the point of the shoes would be to raise the heel and see if this reduces the stumbling. (Does this sound right?). He wants us to just shoe the fronts.
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Wedge bar shoes would not normally be prescribed when there is no identifiable lameness and I have never heard of them being prescribed when the feet have not been xrayed.

I am personally very against wedge bar shoes, I think they do even more damage to the feet. I am especially against them if he does not even know why he is saying she should have them. They crush the heels and cause a toe first landing, both bad things to happen.

They have a habit of working for a while, as they did with the rehab I am doing now, and then the horse goes unsound again with feet in worse shape than they were to start with.


When checking her he was checking for swelling on knee, leg, joints etc and also checking capillaries(SP?) I think was what he said.

All I want is to do the best for my horse and I'm so out of my depth. Starting to regret not having her insured now.
Click to expand...

I think you need foot xrays. I'm sorry that's more money but I'm baffled why he has not suggested taking any.

I'm pretty sure he didn't tell you that he was checking capillaries, but I can't think what he might have been trying to say.


Can you get us some photos of her feet to see if we can see anything obvious?
 
Thank you. I'm sure they are trying to save me money, but i had the money there for the xrays. When I phoned to tell them she's not lame but she's not sound it was me that first asked about xrays, so its not like they brought it up - kicking myself for not insisting on it.
I'll get photos on Sunday as away all day tomorrow.
Appreciate everyone's answers.
The get also said it could be start of navicular or similar.
 
I would get hoof xrays if you can, that will be cheaper in the long run than egg bar shoes.

I was paying £90 a shoeing and he was only keeping them on for 2 weeks a time before he pulled them on. They were a total nightmare I've now taken shoes off and am starting from scratch which has been the best thing I've ever done.
 
fidleyspromise said:
The get also said it could be start of navicular or similar.
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Yes it could, and if it is then egg bar wedges are the last thing most of us would think you should do with her.

We can help if its navicular, it's curable. It's usually soft tissue damage caused by the feet landing wrong in some way.

FP can you get us shots of her front feet -

from the side, with the camera down on the ground.

from the front with the camera down on the ground.

from the heels, with the foot picked up and the camera pointing out over her frog, so we can try to judge heel height and concavity.

Have someone walk her up on a piece of hard flat ground for you and look at how her front feet meet the ground. Do they land with the heel first, flat or with the toe first?

Also, we should start now talking about what diet you have got her on, so you can get her feet as strong as possible.
 
I'll get the photos.
I belive she lands heel first.
Diet - Fast fibre and pro balance, as recommended on here in August for when her shoes came off. :) (which has done wonders for her feet and they are much better than they've ever been).
 
Sorry this will be long but I think my personal experience of a similar situation may be of help to you.
My mare was being short, no obvious 'lameness' as such, but in my mind she was not right. She had also only recently gone barefoot at the age of 13. I contacted the vet who came out and took a look. 100% on all 4 flex ions, no signs of anything, but he said if I knew something wasn't right then he would have her in for a work up. Being that it was the beginning if December and there was nothing serious as such going on I booked her in for the end of January and 1 week before going in she came in from the field one day chronically lame, barely able to walk. Was on box rest and legs wrapped for a week (again there was no heat or swelling but this was just another precaution we took to help) by the time we went to the vets she was probably only 1/10 lame on RF and vet again couldn't see anything obvious as to where the problem was. We nerve blocked and x-rayed and found that she had high ringbone of the short pastern, sidebones and DJD in her RF.
This was all found in a horse that before the obvious lameness was only 'short' and some people could of, and did say, there was nothing wrong with her.
We medicated the joint and worked together with my farrier to bring her back to soundness, which we did. Almost year of hacking and building her up and we went back for a follow up. Found she was slightly 'short' in the LF so vet suggested that due to the other problems we were best taking a look as we were there. We found sidebones again and slight navicular changes. She was treated this time with Tildren, as with her various problems (and the fact I had insurance) we felt it would benefit everything going on. Vet suggested remedial shoes with pads and wedges but I declined this as I knew in my mind that it would more than likely be making the problem worse, my farrier also agreed with me and the vet respected my decision and has worked with us still.

This was in September, my mare is now 100% sound, in full work (when the weather isn't awful) starting to compete at dressage, not on bute, just a glucosamine supplement, and is trimmed every 6 weeks to keep her feet how the vet wants them.
We were told at the beginning of all of this that she would be a light hack at most, a field ornament at least, and it is safe to say the vet is gob smacked at the outcome and has praised our good management even though we did go against some of his wishes.

You really need to X-ray and see what is going on inside, shoes will not help especially if you don't know what is going in. Personally I would get a second opinion if need be.

Good luck!! :)
 
Thanks cptrayes, it was hard work but well worth it!
I also knew not a lot about barefoot, admittedly :), and was also worried about going against the vets advice but I think you know what is right for your own horse and you really do have to go with your gut!
OP, I hope my situation has helped you in your decision of what to do next!
 
Thank you for letting me know your experience Baker. It is very difficult to go against the professionals, especially when its an area we know little about anyway.

Photos of front hooves:

Left Fore
P1270121LF.jpg

P1270120LF.jpg

P1270119LF.jpg

P1270117LF.jpg

P1270116LF.jpg

P1270115LF.jpg

P127011LF8.jpg



Right Fore
P1270112RF.jpg

P1270111RF.jpg

P1270110RF.jpg

P1270109RF.jpg

P1270108RF.jpg

P1270104RF.jpg
 
From the pics I suggest you do a video of her walking on that concrete surface or a road and watch it in slo mo. I say this because looking at the sole shots the toe is more worn than the heels which might be a sign of toe first landing.
By the upside down v shape of the hair line looking at the back of the hooves on the ground it looks to me like the caudal (back half) hoof structures need to develop more. The hairline here should generally be straight. The frog is also under developed too.
I expect you are aware that consistent and long term toe first landing is a cause of many hoof, tendon and joint problems so doing the video to see for sure is well worth the effort imo. If you look on the Rockley Farm blog you will find such videos showing horses changing from toe first to flat to heel first landing on a flat level surface. Comfortable heel first landing is the way to develop the back of the foot. Surfaces and boots and pads can be used but of course I am speaking from what jumped out to me from the pics, I am not a professional and certainly not a vet.

Some repeated rippling on the walls suggest diet mightn't be 100%.
 
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Hi Amanda, thanks for input.
Just trying to upload video now :) She lands flat, it looks like she's going to land heel first, but then it lands flat.
Diet was changed in August, so the rippling could be from there? Her hoof doesn't grow quickly although it is much better since she's been on this new diet and that's also when she went barefoot.

She is due to be trimmed. It was supposed to be last Monday but the weather knocked that on the head so trying to get this organised. Just in case that makes a difference :)
 
Hi Beausmate - yeah, she's had both checked and they're ok (although worth getting them checked again as she was playing silly beggars in the field last month and fell over).

Near fore is the one I can feel being dodgy when riding.
 
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