Horse has had a personality transplant!!

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JazziesMum

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I bought my horse in about June time last year. He is 10 years old, and has basically been there, seen it and done it. I want to do dressage and am an absolute wimpy jumping and I jumped him and he was so safe and steady that he won me over straight away. I took him out on the road and he did not batt an eyelid, blah blah blah. He was a bit poor at the time, but just needed a bit of muscling up because he had not been being worked properly. For the first couple of months, everything was fine, he loaded easily when we picked him up etc and then everything started to change in about October time...
Firstly, the bucking started, he ALWAYS bucks going into canter, he bucks when you put your leg on and ask him to go sideways, just generally any time you use your legs, he does it. So much so, that I am now scared to ask for a canter transition. He violently threw my friend off jumping whilst she was cantering and really hurt her. We have tried to take him out to a fun ride and he was very dangerous trying to load him, kicking out etc, had no intention of going in a lorry or a trailer. Just being stubborn. I got a breaker to get on him and try and sort the bucking out. She discovered that he responded well to basically being slapped with the whip when he bucks, because he backs down and eventually goes nicely. I don't like whacking him with a stick to sort it out, but if you don't the bucks get bigger and bigger until he gets you off. My confidence has gown and grown on him and I was able to control him again for a while. My friend that he bronced off then tried to get back on him with me helping her, telling her what he will repond to etc. He got 4 strides from the mounting block and he went ballistic and dumped her again. She didn't even have a chance to try and correct him. I summonsed all my bravery and got on myself stright after as I did not want him to have won, and he went like an angel.
Then, a few weeks before Christmas, he smacked his head really hard on a beam in his stable and knocked all his back out of line, I had a lady come out to sort his back out and check his saddle and everything was fine. What with him then needing a week off after his treatment and then Christmas and new year, time ran away with me and he ended up having about 4 weeks off. I (stupidly) got back on him last Sunday for a little hack and he tried to bronc me off before I even got out the gateway and I ended up halfway up his neck. So, I got off and lunged the pants off of him and then got back on and went out for my short hack. He was quite spooky and very on edge but no bucking. I decided that that was my fault for assuming that he would be fine after so long off and put it down to experience. I lunged him 3 times last week in the school and he worked really well. I got on him on Saturday to go for a hack with my friend and he started humping his back and trying to buck me off before we even got out of the yard. So, I decided to get the lunge line out again and give him another blast around for 2 minutes. He was fine on the lunge and I got on and he behaved on the hack until we we nearly home but was VERY spooky, he reacted very violently to a horse lorry trying to go past which he previously would not have thought twice about, spooking in front of it, trying to canter off and trying to buck in the middle of the road and I was really scared. He also refuses to tie up anymore, he continually pulls back and breaks leadropes, headcollars, you name it.
Now, I do not know what to do. I know he is not a malicious horse, he just keeps trying it on. I don't want to ride him in the school anymore, I don't want to ride him on the roads and I don't want to ride him around the fields at my yard because he tried to bronc me off doing that too. I am at my wits end. I can't sell him as he is because he will throw anyone off that comes to see him, and I don't want any of my friends to get on him becuase I don't want them to get hurt. I'm stuck doing nothing but lunging and turning out. He usually has turnout every day unless the weather is bad, he was having hard feed until he had his time off of a handful of A&P Calm and Cond. and 1/2 scoop cherry chaff but I have cut that out completely (doesn't really need it does he?!) and hay in his stable when he's in. I am considering going to get him some NAF magic or something. Do you think it's worth a try? What can I do with him, I am loosing confidence fast.
Please help!!!
 
first thing, i would get his saddle checked by someone other than whoever fitted it. i would get his back and neck checked by a good mctimoney chiro. i would also get a really good dentist (who takes 40 mins not 15!) to do his teeth.
the bucking is for a reason, i would imagine it is a response to pain of some kind. i'd keep him on just hay (+ supplements if you like)
just out of interest, the friend who he dumped twice, is she bigger and heavier than you?
if he's insured, and the saddler finds nothing amiss, and mctimoney treatment doesn't make a big difference (which i would expect it to), then i'd think about kissing spines maybe, have a word with your vet.
 
Hi
The lady that checked him just before Christmas when he hurt his head was a McTimoney lady and she was the one who checked his saddle. She said that his saddle was fine, his Atlas and Axis were out and a few of his vertebrae in his neck and through his loins, but she realigned all of those.
My frined that rode him is about the same if not slightly lighter that me (I am about a size 8 and she is too, but shorter), but another of my friends got on him who is heavier than me and he was absolutely fine with her, he did buck once going into canter, but nothing massive and he went very nicely for her in the end.
 
Just to be on the safe side i would have everything checked again just incase he has pulled himself again or could it that he just feels so good in himself, i know not being much help but its like a process of ellimination just going thru the check list to make sure everything medically is ok with him,
 
I would definitely have a 2nd opinion on his back - McTimony preferably. I would also get a 2nd opinion on his saddle fitting. Its worth spending the money so that you can absolutely rule these 2 things out. I suspect its his back, dont give up yet, you might get your nice neddy back
 
If it was me, and my horse, I would have the McTimoney lady out again just to check. Same thing happened with my horse over Xmas, we moved yards and he turned into a loon. He had had his back done a week prior to moving, but when I tried to ride him (he had first 3 weeks at yard off) he kept arching his back and swishing his tail/kicking out - the same when I put my leg on. She came back out and his back was quite badly out of alignment, prob from being silly in the field.

Echo what kerilli says about there being a reason for the bucking. It's just a case of finding it. Get everything checked again and if it all comes back ok, get the vet in. There has to be something wrong for him to behave like this.
 
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then i'd think about kissing spines maybe, have a word with your vet.

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Would totally agree with this. My gelding was an angel. About a year ago he started bucking, gradually getting worse. He also began to spook really badly out hacking, jumping in front of traffic and 'freezeing up' in the middle of the road. I would come back in tears cos I was so scared.

Vet initially said it was bad attitude but I've had him for 5 years and I know its not in his nature. We put him on bute for a few days and the bucking stopped - maybe you could consult your vet and try this as it might indicate he's in pain? Last time he was ridden he bronced me off and I ended up on my back for 2 weeks. I'm now awaiting x-rays for him but we suspect kissing spines.

I really wouldn't ride your boy until you know there is nothing physically wrong, you could end up badly hurt.
 
The thing that I don't understand, is that if it is a pain response, then why does he behave once he has been told off or lunged first? My friend's horse recently had kissing spine surgery, but when he started going bad, when he was told off for misbehaving, he would keep going because he was in pain and wouldn't stop until the person got off. Jazz doesn't do this, it is like he is trying me out every time I get on him, trying to see what he can get away with 'this time'. It's not even like he has loads of excess energy, he is dopey as you like most of the time.
Also, if he is in pain through his back and that's the reason, then why has he started being an idiot on the roads, that's just naughtiness, but the thing is that he is so on edge at the minute that I dare not hit him on the road, because I don't know how he will react.
 
Horses tend to do whatever is the easiest option for them. If his back hurts, but the stick hurts more, he will put up with the pain in his back so he doesn't get hit again. If his back was hurting more than the stick, he'd keep 'playing up'.

I know when I was in a lot of pain with my own back, I was generally on edge and bad tempered. He will also be constantly anticipating pain when he's ridden. Also, horses are like people - they all respond slightly differently to things.

There is always a reason for this kind of behaviour - it's not always pain, sometimes it's habit or poor schooling, but the majority of the time I'd say it was pain related.
 
If he's dopey most of the time and just reacts when you get on, it'd make me suspect pain even more.

My vet initially thought it was attitude - he rode my horse and when he bucked he pushed him on and gave him a smack. He bucked a bit more but then cantered on. As jumpthemoon says, I think he gave in to the vet riding him harder than I did and put up with the pain. However, putting him on the bute showed that my instinct was right, he was definately in pain.

And being stupid on the roads is exactly the same way my boy went - basically I think he was constantly on edge.
 
totally agree with jumpthemoon about horses going for the easier option.
i had a horse with kissing spines who bucked like stink, but would stop with a really stickable rider who could yank him together and drive him forward - didn't stop the pain, obv, but made him think of something else, and beasted him if he didn't. not nice at all, but true.
riding him on bute isn't a bad idea, just be aware it can seriously undermine your brakes!
 
like other folk have said, i'd get his back checked and his saddle fit. It sounds to me like he's cold backed if he's better after lunging.

also, on a different note, if his condition is ok, cut his 'hard feed' back to the bare minimum in terms of the energy - even down to fibre and a feed balancer, just to make sure he isn't getting too much energy, though it does sound unlikely that this is the cause!
 
He's not having any hard feed! He's too much of a monkey at the minute!
I have just been and got him some Magic at lunchtime, so will start giving him that with a minute handful of chaff tonight. Am also going to get his saddle checked. I texted his old owner at lunchtime, and she said that she never had his teeth done (She had him for 3 years!) so that's top of the list and we'll take it from there. Will consider gettting the vet out if those things don't solve the issue.
I think that people are very quick to assume Kissing Spines and it has crossed my mind, but I would rather look at that as a last resort, because if I am perfectly honest, I just think he is being an arse! Also, some people that I have spoken to say that EVERY horse has spiney processes which touch, but that if the horse is working properly and round over it's back, then they will not touch and the horse will go fine, it just depends on how sensitive they are as to whether they react if they are not working through properly. That could explain when when a horse is worked through the bucking it will stop. Maybe the pain goes? Who knows, they cannot tell us, but I think there is a lot to be said for the fact that in Germany, Kissing Spines is not even recognised as a condition. I may have just started a big row on that now(!) but that's just what i've heard. I do agree that many horses have successfully had Kissing Spine surgery and the bucking has stopped after that.
jencash, you said about him being cold-backed and I did wonder about that, but how is this overcome/worked with?
 
traditionally you'd put the saddle on for up to an hour before riding, do the girth up slowly and walk him round in hand before getting on. In reality, most of the time people now, put the saddle on loose then lunge for 10-15mins tighten the girth lunge a bit longer then get on.
you might find that as he gets fitter and works better that it will ease off. we schooled one this summer who was allegedly cold-backed, and sure enough he bronced the first few times even after lunging, but as he had more work and understood that we don't take nonsense as an answer we soon just took a 2 minute inhand walk before he was ridden and he was fine - by the time he went back he didn't even need that!

also make sure the starch is low in his diet, and use oil for energy to help stop the muscles cramping up - but if he's not getting much hard feed i wouldn't worry about it too much!
 
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