Horse hates farrier but cant be barefoot - PLEASE HELPPPPPP ;(

[VLDG]

Hi Im really hoping someone can help me out. I really dont know what to do now im at the end of my tether. I have a 15.3 irish draught and hes brill in every way apart from he hates the farrier. He came to me shod and the owner told me he was fine with the farrier..... hes totally not. So anyway my farrier has tried everything, we managed to get him shod a couple of times but since then he is so scared and barges constantly and canters around in his stable we just cant hold him, have tried chifney also.

We have been having him barefoot to see if thats ok but its been about 6 months now (having trims every 6 weeks which he also hates) and his feet are really short and crumbled up. Ive tried sedalin which didnt do anything. It takes about 1hr 30 to trim him because of all the barging.

I ordered some of the carvello horse boots but they didnt fit so have just received another pair in a larger size so need to try them on him but really I want to try and solve this problem with the farrier. I want to hack out and I just cant at the min. Ive called the vets about sedating him fully but its going to cost a lot and I cant afford that every time he needs shoeing.

Im looking for a horse whisperer im in the midlands staffordshire, not sure if anyones used one before that can recommend? Or if anyones in a similar situation that has any tips or advice?

Hes an absolutely brilliant horse to be ridden and for everything else so I dont want to sell him but its getting to the point where I might have to

Thanks in advance for any comments!

 

[D66]

Michael Peace will help out with farrier-phobic horses. Expensive but effective.

 

[dianchi]

Ok, with barefoot you need to look at diet, being barefoot isn't causing the issue with his feet. Equally are his feet short to him or just how you are looking at them?

Have a look at the Rockley blog for barefoot help.

As for sorting out the barging issue, is it really only with the farrier that his behaviour is like this? Do you do ground work with him?

 

[VLDG]

Have you used him before? Do you have any contact details for him? Thanks

 

[HaffiesRock]

My pony is the same. I am currently on my 4th farrier in 2 years and he is soooo much better with number 4. The difference? She is a woman. My pony will only allow a woman to pick up his feet. Is it worth trying another farrier? Just to see?

 

[VLDG]

Yes didnt think of that I could try and find a female farrier! Perhaps I will post another thread to see if anyone knows one in my area! Thank you

 

[VLDG]

Ive tried supplements and different feeds also ive tried about 3 different hoof ointments and followed the instructions of how often to use them and it doesnt seem to have helped

Hes not bargy at all in any other aspect literally just for the farrier, i think its more that hes really scared so just trys to get away as quick as he can and doesnt care who is in his way.

 

[pinklilly]

You need to feed the supplements for quite a while to see a difference as the foot takes something like nine months to grow a new capsule. Ointments neither use nor ornament. I swear by pro hoof made by progressive earth and micronised linseed but the whole diet needs looked at.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Ointments are just a waste of money IMO. A good supplement and a low sugar/starch and high fibre diet is what's needed (even if you do fix the horse's phobia and get him shod in the future the 'BF' diet is good for all horses) and don't forget that it only affects the NEW growth. So if it takes your horse 9 months to grow a new hoof capsule, you wont have better quality horn from top to bottom until that time has passed. Pro balance, Pro hoof and Forage Plus are good supplements.

Once the diet is right and the horse is growing better quality horn, you then need to stimulate the hooves by exercising the horse on surfaces that he is comfortable on. Build up distances slowly so that the hooves get used to their new workload. Plus new, more challenging surfaces should be introduced carefully and slowly.

I hope the boots that you have ordered fit, as boots can be very helpful. If they are no good, have a look at Renegades which I've heard very good reports of by endurance riders.

I do wonder if the horse has been pricked with a nail (nail driven into the incorrect place and therefore the horse was hurt during the shoeing process), there is a very tiny margin of error when putting the nails in. I wouldn't want to even try to shoe a horse that was reacting so much, as if he's pricked again, it will just confirm to him that being shod is painful.

 

[soloequestrian]

Try a female barefoot trimmer - much more common than female farriers! They will be able to give you advice about your horses feet and in my experience often have very good training skills so may also be able to help with the general problem of handling the feet.

 

[TheMule]

Some horses just dont grow enough foot for 6 weekly trims. My mare goes 4 months when in light work, longer when in doing more roadwork

 

[amandap]

Second the diet recommendations. If the hooves are "short and crumbly" they may sore especially if the farrier is trimming sole ad frog each time. If the hooves are sore then the vibration from nailing is painful. I would search for information about healthy hooves and signs of unhealthy ones. It is harder to retrain if there is pain involved. Finding a farrier who is prepared to take the approach and time it takes is worth it and considering a female one is a good suggestion.

 

[Clava]

Some horses just dont grow enough foot for 6 weekly trims. My mare goes 4 months when in light work, longer when in doing more roadwork

Trims every 6 weeks would have my Tb struggling to walk. She pretty much self trims with just roadwork and I only increase workload gradually.

 

[Micky]

What is he like with you picking his feet up?? If he is ok, have you tried you picking them up with farrier close by to take over? sorry if you have already done this!
Maybe do find on recommendation, another 'calm' farrier, we have one that trims horses in the field, as shoeing farrier is too impatient, the difference is apparent..
I would (if me) pay for michael peace and look for another farrier..Good luck and keep posting so we know if you have had success!

 

[ester]

How is he with you and a rasp/hammer etc? I think a bit of experimenting might help see what the problem actually is. Also what do you mean re feet are really short? they can look shorter bare and does the farrier trim every time? I do however have the opposite problem to the others on this thread in that however much road work I do Frank could do with a trim after 4 weeks, after 6 they look like they really need doing!

 

[Boulty]

I would second looking at the rockley farm blog for ideas regarding diet and mangement and how you may be able to help him stay barefoot by tweaking things. My ginger creature is down there at the moment. He does have a few issues going on with his feet (he has sidebone but also seems to have developed a massively long toe and the back of his feet was rather collapsed) but the reason I'm mentioning him was that he was diabolical for the farrier. I tried 3 different farriers who employed many many different techniques. During this time he kicked one farrier on the arse, kicked another on the arm, sent many half nailed-on shoes flying through the air (narrowly missing both me and the farrier on a few occasions), reared up and struck out more times than I can count, nearly broke my foot, actually broke a leadrope, cut his own leg... I was scared that he was going to end up seriously injuring either the farrier, me or himself if things continued. Combine this with him being intermittently lame and I felt barefoot was my only option left. I still think some of his behaviour was pain related (difficult one as he pulls some of the same stunts when being clipped or when he feels the dentist is taking too long). Fingers crossed you manage to find a way forward. If you do decide to go down the shod route again then I'd advise acquiring some old tools and getting him used to for example the rasp touching his hoof and the feel of the hammer banging (broom handles are great for attaching said things to if reaction expected to be extreme)

 

[Kat]

My mare was bad for the farrier but is much better barefoot with trims. As she does lots of road work she doesn't get very frequent trims either.

Read up on the barefoot diet, buy some boots and pads and start working towards improving those feet. My vet said my horse would never cope barefoot but she is doing and even hunts bare.

 

[Kokopelli]

There is no quick fix to farrier issues (or barefoot issues) where I used to work we would get a lot of horses terrified of the farrier and this method has worked on all of them.

What's he like just picking up feet? Some of these horses won't allow you to do it without getting a hoof to the head. Have someone holding him that is experienced and not going to lose their cool, also put horse in a bridle or control headcollar.

Using a carrot stick (I know bare with me!) loop the rope loosely around leg and gently tug. This allows you to pick the feet up and able to keep a good distance. Repeat this everyday, praise like crazy when they pick up and put down gently and ignore any unwanted behavior like kicking out.

Gradually as they get more comfortable move down the carrot stick and start by just touching the foot, once comfortable with this start holding the foot and touching all over before allowing horse to put gently down. If they snatch and slam foot down pick it up again and do it again, praise when he does it well.

Once he's happy with this and you can pick up all four feet and touch all over them with no fuss get a hammer and start tapping lightly on the shoe. Build this tapping up in strength gradually. If he gets upset go back to comfort zone, whether this is lighter tapping or just touching the foot. Do the same with a rasp (but dint actually rasp anything away as you could do damage.

When your farrier comes next have the same person holding as normal and make sure farrier remains calm, some do get stressed at the horse which doesn't help.

Gauge on the horses behaviour for when he is ready for the next step, if he gets worried stay calm and go back a step. Praise good behaviour and ignore bad behaviour. Some horses get it in a week, others take a few months but we haven't had one it hasn't worked with yet. Also make sure you address any rude behaviour on the ground at all times this will help with the barging.

 

[smellsofhorse]

I don't not believe he can't be barefoot.

Yes you have tried it bur it sounds like you have done it the wrong way.
You said his feet are short and crumbly, no wonder horse is scared, its probably pain related.


Have you adjusted his died?
You said he has been barefoot for 6 months but you have only just got a set of boots that fit.

Get some advice on managing a barefoot horse correctly.
I believe Oberon is very experienced.

 

[twiggy2]

All the suggestions are really useful but if the horse is good in every other way have you questioned why he is bad for the farrier?
perhaps it is pain related?

 

[chestnut cob]

OP, what is the horse like to have his feet picked out by you?

 

[VLDG]

Hi thanks for everyones comments. I have tried to find a female farrier but there isnt one within a 50mile radius of my area sadly

He is fine for anyone to pick his feet up apart from a farrier, he hates them all as soon as they come onto the yard hes snorting and goes to the back of his stable. It isnt pain related I have had this checked by a vet theres nothing wrong with him.

Currently I feed hifi lite chaff, feedmark joint supplement, top spec senior lite feed balancer and some garlic. Does anyone have any better suggestions for feed that would help his feet out then?

Thanks

 

[chestnut cob]

OK, I know this is going to be a really expensive option but I think I would try getting your farrier to maybe come by daily or a couple of times per week, maybe on his way home from work, something like that. Ask him to feed the horse, or just say hello to him and leave. Little by little. Get the horse to associate the farrier with something nice like food. When others on the yard have their farrier, ask them to feed him a carrot.

I'd also be inclined to get a natural horsemanship type person out. I really like some of the Kelly Marks RAs (I used Rosie Jones in the past who is brilliant), and someone else mentioned Micheal Peace. Also could think about Richard Maxwell. I guess you'd need to arrange for the farrier to be there when they visit, which will be expensive esp as you might need them there for quite a while.

I wouldn't feed him any of that stuff - go with maybe just Fast Fibre or Speedibeet, and some good hoof supplements.

 

[VLDG]

Does anyone know this Michael Peaces's details?

 

[Kat]

If his feet are really short and crumbly a good farrier won't put shoes on as nailong on will weaken the hoof the shoe will get pulled and take more hoof with it leaving the horse in a worse state.

If he is good to pick his feet up but bad for the farrier it is likely to be discomfort. I don't mean that he is lame but that he finds something about the process uncomfortable, probably nailing on (I bet that is when he really freaks). My farrier shy horse is much better now she is barefoot.

PM oberon for her feeding factsheet. Then use boots to keep him comfortable.

 

[amandap]

Us humans have to listen to the horse rather than make assumptions on what we see! How do vets etc. know the horse doesn't find shoeing/trimming painful? You can train a horse to put up with discomfort but is it fair? Hopefully it is dislike/fear of farriers due to past handling.

 

[maggiesmum]

I have a horse that is exactly like this but at 18hh there simply isn't an option of physically restraining her and neither did I want to sedate her as I really don't think thats the answer - i'm not sure i'd be happy about being in a situation i'm scared of but being unable to run away.
My other horses are barefoot so it was a no-brainer for me really but even so i've had to do a lot of work just to be able to trim her feet, slowly i've got her to a place where I can keep them tidy but I still (after 18months) can't hold her foot between my knees as she feels trapped and panics, neither can I tie her up or have someone hold her as again she feels trapped and panics, approaching her with chaps on (the type that farriers wear) is a huge trigger for her and that is enough to send her running around the stable in a panic.
Everytime I pick each foot up to pick it out she gets a reward (just an alfalfa pellet or something small) and this has helped, for a long time I had to trim 2 feet on one day and the other 2 the following day and even then it could take an hour just to do 2 as I had to give her plenty of time and lots of breaks as she'd get overwhelmed by the process and panic.

I'd definitly recommend finding a female trimmer (i'd get him completely comfortable with trimming first before even thinking about shoes) that is prepared to go at his pace, i'd also have a chiropractor or osteopath out to check him over, its possible the act of holding his legs up for the farrier has caused a problem for him and that is his reasoning for disliking it so much.

As for diet I'd ditch the Hi-Fi and the top spec and go with unmolassed sugar beet and a forage plus balancer along with controlled grazing (e.g. graze at night & stable during the day with hay) if he doesn't eat the minerals particularly well then I find Coolstance copra a great disguise and it won't do any harm either.
A trimmer should be able to advise you on boots and then work on building his feet up to a point that he no longer needs the boots.

Good luck, its a difficult one to tackle but if you go gently with lots of praise & reassurance i'm sure you'l get there.

 

[spottydottypony]

I have this same problem with my pony i bought last August. When i got him (hes 9 yrs) he was terrified of everything even stroking him.You could only touch his face. His feet were really long so i got a female barefoot trimmer to trim his feet. The first attempt he tried to stamp on her and was terrified . We managed to file his front feet while they were on the floor (it took and hour and loads of treats) Now she can pick up his front feet to trim only for a few seconds but its progress.

 

[mightymammoth]

Does anyone know this Michael Peaces's details?

if your in staffordshire sue palmer who is a physio and also a monty roberts trained person, she's very nice and lives in stafford.
http://www.holistichorsehelp.com/behaviour/behaviour.html
by the way I also have a horse that I was told "can't cope without shoes", we've been shoeless for about two years now.

 

[Fides]

I don't know if anyone has said this already but 6 weeks can be too much for barefoot. When shod they can't self trim so need trimming more regularly, but when barefoot they will naturally wear the hoof. I have mine done every 6-8 weeks - they take a small amount off my mare as she wears unevenly but my boy only ever needs a quick tidy up with the rasp. In winter I will go as long as 12 weeks as the hoof grows more slowly.

The other thing I have done with mine is got them used to all the actions a farrier would to - picking their legs up in weird angles, holding them for a longer period than a hoof pick out, tapping them on the hoof with something metal, simulating the rasp with a blunt rasp. This way when the farrier comes they are doing nothing new that they haven't already had done every day as a matter of course...