horse homeopathy? :)

[SarahRicoh]

Well i know a few people who use homeopathics (i think thats right word?)/herbal stuff.. My mum always gives me arnica for bruises & echinacea for colds..
When my mare got diagnosed with liver problems, vets said she had no hope but i refused to believe that and i researched about natural remedies.. I gave her milk thistle tablets (used on people aswell) & after a few months her liver was fine& she was back to normal-passed a 5* vetting!

Anyway,its well known that horses self medicate. But vets i know dont even consider natural remedies.

Just wondering if anyone uses homeopathy? Is it a job? (ie. Can you be a horse homeopathist)... Do people believe herbs/roots etc can help medical issues?

 

[cundlegreen]

Ive had a lot of success using homeopathy. I use Folklore practice in Suffolk, and if I have any problems, I send them a urine sample and they test for deficiencies. I always have tincture of arnica on the place, really useful for foaling mares, colic, sheep in shock etc.

 

[SarahRicoh]

I agree! A lot of people are sceptical and much prefer to use medicine...

 

[BlackRider]

Yes - I use a lot of natural remedies, for my horses, including homeopathy, aromatherapy (although not at the same time as homeopathy), herbs etc.

Find them really helpful.

 

[SarahRicoh]

Its interesting to see people do use them... How do you decide/know what to use? Do you research or ask someone who practices homeopathy?

 

[Oberon]

Homeopathy and acupunture are currently in this country, only to be performed by vets.

So unless you are lucky enough to have a local vet who also specialises in holistic stuff, neither treatment will be on offer routinely.

That's why it's not really part of the mainstream.

 

[Lacuna]

Not to offend anyone but herbal medicine is NOT homeopathy.

Homeopathy means you dilute a given substance in water until there is virtually no chance of there being a single molecule of it left. I can't see how it can have any effect on anything.

Herbal medicine on the other hand involves actual extract of plants with active ingredients. Although these can be variable depending on species/dosages used. Anyone using herbs should make sure there are no interactions with drugs they or their animals may be prescribed. For instance, I think St John;s Wort in people can reduce the effectiveness of the pill.

 

[SarahRicoh]

I didnt know you had to be a vet to provide homeopathy.. Wow!

 

[Oberon]

I didnt know you had to be a vet to provide homeopathy.. Wow!

I know - it's a bummer!

 

[SarahRicoh]

So can you provide herbal medicines not being a vet?

 

[trojanpony]

Ditto what lacuna said. The only way homeopathy can work is by the placebo effect. I don't think you get much of a placebo effect in animals so I would not personally spend my money on it.

 

[Oberon]

Well i know a few people who use homeopathics (i think thats right word?)/herbal stuff.. My mum always gives me arnica for bruises & echinacea for colds..
When my mare got diagnosed with liver problems, vets said she had no hope but i refused to believe that and i researched about natural remedies.. I gave her milk thistle tablets (used on people aswell) & after a few months her liver was fine& she was back to normal-passed a 5* vetting!

Anyway,its well known that horses self medicate. But vets i know dont even consider natural remedies.

Just wondering if anyone uses homeopathy? Is it a job? (ie. Can you be a horse homeopathist)... Do people believe herbs/roots etc can help medical issues?

I really don't know anything about homeopathy other than it is a very devisive subject.

Herbs on the other hand, I am a big believer in.

Feral horses forage for different plants and will actively seek out what they need.

Our horses don't get access to to anything other than the same fields year in, year out.
When my old boy refuses to go out in the bad weather, I take him for a walk up the road - it's amazing to watch him chose what to eat from the selection on the verges.
I know it's naughty but I don't begrudge them eating when out hacking

I feed herbs as part of their diet and they have the added advantage of providing flavouring to the unmolassed feeds I give

This is a good book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Horse-Herbal-Hilary-Page/dp/1872119816

and a good website (they copied from the book virtually word for word)
http://www.equinatural.co.uk/

I buy my herbs, fenugreek and turmeric from here
http://www.cotsherb.co.uk/

You can also make your own oils by leaving herbs in olive/sweet almond oil for six weeks.
I've made a good Comfrey oil and balm so far.

I haven't got into aromatherapy yet - too much to do
But look at this site
http://www.ingraham.co.uk/

 

[Booboos]

I didnt know you had to be a vet to provide homeopathy.. Wow!

You do NOT need to be a vet to provide homeopathy, vets are not trained in homeopathy nor is it in any way controlled...because it is water! Vets don't generally prescribe homeopathic water, because it is water.

As per Lacuna's post homeopathy is completely different from herbal medicine. Herbs and other natural substances are the basis of many drugs anyway and new herbal properties are found all the time. Herbs can be effective but that also means that they can have side-effects, counter-reactions, interactions with other drugs, etc. so they should be used with caution.

Homeopathy is a bizarre 18th century collection of claims namely that like heals like and that substances become more potent the more they are diluted. Neither claim has any scientific support whatsoever, otherwise we would give anyone who had pneumonia a bit of tuberculosis as treatment and people regularly swollowing ocean water would never get sick!

 

[lq22]

Before I was in hospital recently I was quite sceptical about homeopathy but the nurses and doctors do use 'natural' treatments ie peppermint oil for indigestion, arnica cream etc. If I were to use a homeopathic treatment I would research it thoroughly first and talk to my doctor - if that was all fine I would try it. Don't agree with the arguement that 'natural' things don't cause side effects. Many common drugs today derive from plants.

 

[Oberon]

You do NOT need to be a vet to provide homeopathy, vets are not trained in homeopathy nor is it in any way controlled...because it is water! Vets don't generally prescribe homeopathic water, because it is water.

As per Lacuna's post homeopathy is completely different from herbal medicine. Herbs and other natural substances are the basis of many drugs anyway and new herbal properties are found all the time. Herbs can be effective but that also means that they can have side-effects, counter-reactions, interactions with other drugs, etc. so they should be used with caution.

Homeopathy is a bizarre 18th century collection of claims namely that like heals like and that substances become more potent the more they are diluted. Neither claim has any scientific support whatsoever, otherwise we would give anyone who had pneumonia a bit of tuberculosis as treatment and people regularly swollowing ocean water would never get sick!

You can buy homeopathic remedies yourself.

The OP asked if people can be a horse homeopathist.
To diagnose, treat and prescribe medicines (whether you believe in homeopathy or not) for money - you have to be a vet in the UK. These vets do additional training in the subject.

It's the same as (officially) you cannot engage the services of a body worker or McTimoney to treat a condition without the attending vet's permission first.

Most people get around that as saying it's just for general comfort rather than treatment.

I don't know enough about homeopathy to form an opinion either way but I remember at uni they were very specific about it being vet only.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I give some homeopathic "remedies" to the hysterical & nervous welsh cob i have on full loan.

He has 2 different types of tablets, ignatius and agatatharus (sp?) and tarentula for general nervousness as well as a herbal mix (i call it his wine as it smells like wine! )

I also have (or did have until it appears to have gone walk abouts arnica for bruising/ pain relief for me and him as well as arnica gel. I also have an arnica spray from the chemist which was very effective when he jumped on my foot.

Edited to add: These are made up for him by a centre i dont make them up myself for him!

 

[M_G]

If you want to give homeopathy a try then please speak to someone trained. I like Helios as they are reputable for humans and animals.

Www.helios.co.uk

 

[Ali2]

Homeopathy's codswallop unless you can get the horse to believe in it's effects and benefit from the placebo effect !

Natural remedies are quite different to homeopathy! I have used herbs to good effect. Many modern drugs are originally derived from plants

 

[SarahRicoh]

I thought i may have used the wrong words... I more meant like arnica for bruising/echinacea for colds/basket willow for pain relief?

Is that just herbal medicine? Are their courses to learn about which herbs etc?

Oberon- you are right that you should get vets permission first before physios etc but noone does :/

 

[Booboos]

You can buy homeopathic remedies yourself.

The OP asked if people can be a horse homeopathist.
To diagnose, treat and prescribe medicines (whether you believe in homeopathy or not) for money - you have to be a vet in the UK. These vets do additional training in the subject.

It's the same as (officially) you cannot engage the services of a body worker or McTimoney to treat a condition without the attending vet's permission first.

Most people get around that as saying it's just for general comfort rather than treatment.

I don't know enough about homeopathy to form an opinion either way but I remember at uni they were very specific about it being vet only.

Apologies if I am misunderstanding your post but of course you need to be trained to prescibe drugs, but homeopathic remedies are not drugs so anyone can hand them out - they are water and treated as such by the law, medical councils, and veterinary governing bodies. No disrespect but whoever said at your uni that only vets can give out homeopathic treatments was wrong. To confirm this just walk into any pharmacy and buy homeopathic remedies, you will find you do not need any type of prescription for either human or animal use.

Herbal treatments on the other hand are about to be much more closely regulated because of their medicinal claims. They will need to go through at least some of the research trials and regulations drugs are subject to before they can be given out as 'medical treatments'.

The reason you need a vet's permission for getting someone else to see your horse is because your horse is under the vet's care who is ultimately responsible for the animal's welfare. This covers other veterinary professionals such as physiotherapists, but not quacks such as aura readers or mind readers because what they do has no effect!

 

[Ali2]

Oberon- you are right that you should get vets permission first before physios etc but noone does :/

my physio does!

 

[Oberon]

Apologies if I am misunderstanding your post but of course you need to be trained to prescibe drugs, but homeopathic remedies are not drugs so anyone can hand them out - they are water and treated as such by the law, medical councils, and veterinary governing bodies. No disrespect but whoever said at your uni that only vets can give out homeopathic treatments was wrong. To confirm this just walk into any pharmacy and buy homeopathic remedies, you will find you do not need any type of prescription for either human or animal use.

Herbal treatments on the other hand are about to be much more closely regulated because of their medicinal claims. They will need to go through at least some of the research trials and regulations drugs are subject to before they can be given out as 'medical treatments'.

The reason you need a vet's permission for getting someone else to see your horse is because your horse is under the vet's care who is ultimately responsible for the animal's welfare. This covers other veterinary professionals such as physiotherapists, but not quacks such as aura readers or mind readers because what they do has no effect!

The Veterinary Surgeons Act 1968

The Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 was put in place to regulate the treatment of animals. Under its provisions, it is basically only veterinary surgeons who may legally diagnose, prescribe, advise on the basis of a diagnosis and perform surgery on animals.

There are exceptions to this. Osteopathy, chiropractic, physiotherapy and, by implication, shiatsu, acupressure, massage, tellington touch and lymphatic drainage, may be performed by non-vets. These are 'manipulative therapies' and are allowed, but only with proper referral by and under the supervision of a vet. This does not imply a quick ‘phone call to the vet, to obtain permission but implies that the form of treatment and the practitioner have been actively recommended by and are to be overseen by the vet. This provision is clearly widely infringed, at present, which may invalidate insurance in the event of a claim.

Aromatherapy, homeopathy, acupuncture, bach flowers, tissue salts and herbal medicine are not allowed to be performed on animals by a non-vet, whether or not under the supervision of a vet. This holds true, whether or not fees are charged. Chiropractors and other therapists are not allowed to prescribe or to recommend such medicines for animal patients. Strictly speaking, herbal and other remedies should not be peddled by herbal and other suppliers, in the way that currently happens. Insurance claims may be jeopardised thereby.

The law is being broken every day, by the prescription of natural medicines by non-vets. There is no protection in indemnity insurance or in law for animals or owners, if anything goes wrong. Furthermore, there is scope for prosecution of owner and prescriber, under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, if the condition fails to improve under such circumstances.
http://www.alternativevet.org/veterinary_surgeons_act.htm

 

[SarahRicoh]

This is interesting reading! Iv never had a back person talk to a vet :s

 

[Oberon]

This is interesting reading! Iv never had a back person talk to a vet :s

Me neither

 

[Booboos]

The Veterinary Surgeons Act 1968

The Veterinary Surgeons Act 1966 was put in place to regulate the treatment of animals. Under its provisions, it is basically only veterinary surgeons who may legally diagnose, prescribe, advise on the basis of a diagnosis and perform surgery on animals.

There are exceptions to this. Osteopathy, chiropractic, physiotherapy and, by implication, shiatsu, acupressure, massage, tellington touch and lymphatic drainage, may be performed by non-vets. These are 'manipulative therapies' and are allowed, but only with proper referral by and under the supervision of a vet. This does not imply a quick ‘phone call to the vet, to obtain permission but implies that the form of treatment and the practitioner have been actively recommended by and are to be overseen by the vet. This provision is clearly widely infringed, at present, which may invalidate insurance in the event of a claim.

Aromatherapy, homeopathy, acupuncture, bach flowers, tissue salts and herbal medicine are not allowed to be performed on animals by a non-vet, whether or not under the supervision of a vet. This holds true, whether or not fees are charged. Chiropractors and other therapists are not allowed to prescribe or to recommend such medicines for animal patients. Strictly speaking, herbal and other remedies should not be peddled by herbal and other suppliers, in the way that currently happens. Insurance claims may be jeopardised thereby.

The law is being broken every day, by the prescription of natural medicines by non-vets. There is no protection in indemnity insurance or in law for animals or owners, if anything goes wrong. Furthermore, there is scope for prosecution of owner and prescriber, under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, if the condition fails to improve under such circumstances.
http://www.alternativevet.org/veterinary_surgeons_act.htm

Sorry to be blunt but this website claims total rubbish on behalf of this Act. If you look this government document on the 2007/8 consultation to revise the 1966 law it is fairly clear that para-professionals are self-regulated which is a cause for concern and possible calls for the revision of the law.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmenvfru/348/348.pdf

 

[Booboos]

My physios have always talked to my vets (except for France where you can't even find physios!)

 

[suzied]

I have a homeopathic vet who has successfully treated my horses and cats. For example, my mare suffered very badly every summer from reacton to fly bites which completely stopped as soon as she started homeopathic treatment. Animals don't know what they're being given, so it can't be a placebo effect. Plus it's much cheaper than prescribed drugs.

 

[Oberon]

Sorry to be blunt but this website claims total rubbish on behalf of this Act. If you look this government document on the 2007/8 consultation to revise the 1966 law it is fairly clear that para-professionals are self-regulated which is a cause for concern and possible calls for the revision of the law.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmenvfru/348/348.pdf

What about this one?
http://www.bahvs.com/vsact.htm

I just wonder if it is rubbish and it's perfectly legal to be a 'horse homeopathist' - why there aren't any around?

 

[JFTDWS]

Homeopathy means you dilute a given substance in water until there is virtually no chance of there being a single molecule of it left. I can't see how it can have any effect on anything.

Oh but the presence of an ultra diluted substance makes the water molecules take on properties of that substance, obviously

Homeopathy is pretty insane. Herbal treatments can be effective - certainly many pharmaceuticals are analogs of natural compounds. The major concern with herbal medicines is that in many cases there is little evidence to support their efficacy in treating what they are sold to treat. More concerningly, in many cases they haven't been subjected to the rigorous safety and toxicity testing which pharmaceuticals have to pass before they are available. Sometimes people forget that natural does not mean safe!

 

[Jesstickle]

My physio requires a vet referral or at least an ok from the vet. My physio also doesn't believe in 'wonky' pelvises and other such nonsense though so that could explain it!

And I won't even go there with my views on homeopathy!