Horse ignores bit pressure

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Cassy

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I am really struggling with my horse. He is 10 so not a youngster. He was very nervous of being ridden when I bought him nearly a year ago, so I had him re-backed this summer using natural horse techniques and when he came home he would walk and trot on a very loose rein and stop when you put weight into your seat. I have continued with the ground work and he is very responsive from the ground but still very over reactive to the leg when ridden and I have lost the confidence to ride him as he does not respond to bit pressure. He open his mouth and keeps walking and the only way to get him to halt is either turn him on a decreasing circle or aim him at the fence! I have a new instructor who is teaching me more techniques from the ground but is advising me not to ride him at the moment. Any advice would be gratefully accepted particularly with regard to the resistance to the bit. He is the same when walking beside him and using the reins to try and achieve halt, he just keeps going| I have spent a lot of money on him over the last year and think he is a kind horse but I am not sure what to do next. Friends say, get an experienced rider to school him. What shall I do?
 
What was he like when you viewed him?

What exactly do you mean by 'natural horse techniques'.

You say he is responsive on the ground but also that he won't stop in-hand so I am not sure what you mean by responsive. Also that he stopped with seat aids but now needs circling or riding into a wall - so is he now ignoring seat aids or are you no longer using them?

He sounds very confused to me! Does he even understand what bit pressure means?
 
His re-backing consisted of a lot of in hand work (rope circling, backing up and a lot of standing around chilling) and after 7 weeks the trainer rode him at walk and trot on the buckle end. To be honest I havent ridden him more than a handful of times and I am not confident with riding on the buckle end so have started to ask with the reins, which I suppose is where the problem has started. By responsive on the ground, I mean to the things he was taught when he was away. My new instructor is teaching me to walk alongside him applying pressure to the rope halter which seems to work but when I try with the bridle on we seem to be back to square one. ie he opens his mouth and keeps going.
 
Find a proper trainer who will work in a way that suits you, 7 weeks faffing about on the ground may have been useful but you sent him to be backed and it sounds as if the riding was an add on, you want to ride in a bridle, be able to use your legs without fear so get on and find someone who rides the horse in the way you will in the future, you may have to adapt a little but unless the horse has a real issue that prevents him being ridden you should be on by now or at least the instructor should be.
 
I think if he was backed using NH cues and only ridden on the buckle he will just not understand normal ones like bit pressure. Whatever cues are taught in the backing process need to be the ones you use afterwards, or it's like teaching a horse German and only speaking English to him when he gets home!

A horse just ignoring bit pressure even on the ground does not sound like 'resistance' to me but just a horse who has no clue what the pressure means.

Also he was literally just 'backed' by the trainer in the summer. He was not educated in the way that he needed to be educated - ie have all the basic cues in place for you to then carry on with his education.

I guess you need to choose a style and stick with it. Personally I want my horses to understand bit pressure. I would send the horse to be re-trained (trained!) to understand basic cues and then have some lessons with the trainer before you come home again.
 
It does sound like the horse has no idea what you want from him. It is possible to train a horse to work on the buckle but also respond to pressure appropriately, but clearly this hasn't been done. Accepting the leg (and, indeed, some leg movement congruent with the rider's level of training) is one of the fundamentals of getting a horse backed. Clearly the NH person hasn't done a great job - or something has gone very wrong since.

You need really good professional help to sort this out - from the ground, the poor horse should understand pressure and release properly before anyone sits on him again.
 
Amber Echo. Just to clarify I sent him away to be re-backed in the summer. He was 10 when I bought him so had been ridden and when I tried him, he was in poor condition and fairly quiet to ride. ( I know, kept thin so that he was quiet!)

Thanks for the advice. I think I am at the end of hoping that he will become my riding horse by training from the ground and I will have to agree with those "knowledgeable friends" who 6 months ago said I had not got the horse back from the trainer that I should have. He is a sensitive soul and I was warned at one point in the summer not to send him to an "ordinary trainer" as they would undo all the work which had been done with him. I think I now need to find a sympathetic person who will get on with the job. I know nothing about his past, apart from he came from Ireland, as I bought him from a dealer back in February as a "confidence giver". The said dealer refused to answer the phone or reply to messages when I began to realise he was not the horse I thought he was. I am an older rider who was looking for my last horse to enjoy doing a bit of local dressage and pleasure rides on. I have stuck with him but am beginning to think all my money and good intentions have been a waste of time.
 
It is entirely possible if he is irish that he's had very few things explained to him and the groundwork isn't making things any clearer for him when it comes to being ridden. You do absolutely need to find the right person to help but so long as there are no physical issues someone ought to be able to get him going better and he doesn't sound currently saleable anyway. At least then you might know what you actually have.
If you give a rough idea of location people might have some suggestions.
 
There are good trainers and bad trainers in all styles/traditions. I am a big fan of western horsemanship approaches eg Buck Brannaman, Mark Rashid. Amber responds to weight and rein aids and is fine on the buckle. She also knows what a bit is and what pressure through it means. And to accept my leg.

If by 'ordinary' trainer, he means non NH trainer then you are limiting yourself very unnecessarily in my view.
 
Ambers Echo said:
There are good trainers and bad trainers in all styles/traditions. I am a big fan of western horsemanship approaches eg Buck Brannaman, Mark Rashid. Amber responds to weight and rein aids and is fine on the buckle. She also knows what a bit is and what pressure through it means. And to accept my leg.

If by 'ordinary' trainer, he means non NH trainer then you are limiting yourself very unnecessarily in my view.
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That's kind of what I meant too - rather clumsily. My mare is very sensitive on the buckle - you can ride her off her neck and your seat and not touch her mouth. She does, however, accept the leg, and understand the nuances of bit pressure. It's about working out who's good and who's not - whether they're NH or not. I'm wary of people who market themselves as NH over here - too many of them are Parelli-ists, but many of the western trainers (MR especially), I do like. Some non-NH people are traditional and competent, others are of a fixed mindset which places too much pressure on the horse and too little release (in my opinion).

Hopefully someone can come up with a good recommendation!
 
JFTD said:
You need really good professional help to sort this out - from the ground, the poor horse should understand pressure and release properly before anyone sits on him again.
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This totally. If you like NH approaches have a look at The Fearless Horse by Roger & Joanna Day. Lesson 2: Cultivating the Stop and Rein Back buttons - on his head (halter) mouth (bit) and chest (liberty work). The book is very straightforward and you can work through the exercises in-hand and ridden. Not to replace a trainer but to give you tools yourself.

It is easy to assume a horse knows what different cues mean but they don't. They need to be taught to yield to pressure not lean into it. It sounds like he is leaning into bit pressure, not understanding he can release it by slowing his feet down/stopping.
 
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