Horse in pain - ulcers? Or is there more to it?

[stilltrying]

Hi all – thought I’d sound out the wealth of experience on here to see if anyone can shed any light as to what might be wrong with my friends horse. BTW this is not a money saving short cut, he is being seen by a vet.

He has recently become less and less happy about being saddled/girthed, to the point of being quite nasty. Saddle was checked, girth was changed, physio checked his back (tight behind saddle), but his behaviour worsened.

He is 5 yrs old and 7/8ths thoroughbred (17 hands). He is very lean, verging on poor, so because of this coupled with the grumpiness the feeling was it could be ulcers.

I don’t have any experience of ulcers myself and whilst his management wouldn’t necessarily point to them (plenty of turnout in company, adlib hay when in, light work and a stress free lifestyle, and low sugar diet as is barefoot), I gather these things can sometimes just happen.

Physio came back out and said he was extremely sore behind the girth on his left hand side, and again she felt it could be ulcers.

He was scoped 10 days ago and was found to have grade 2 ulcers. The vet felt that whilst the ulcers weren’t particularly bad, they could well be the cause of his unhappiness and he has been given 2 weeks gastroguard.

However, what concerns me is the way he moves. He comes out of his stable stiff as a board, and when I ask him to turn back around, his tail kinks up to one side. He does this when walking uphill, the tail lifts and curls. He looks to me like he is in pain.

This could of course be typical of a horse with ulcers, as I say I have no experience of them. So I guess I’m asking if this is standard behaviour for a horse with ulcers, or if it is a case of – actually a lot of horses will have low grade ulcers if they are scoped and therefore there could be something else troubling the poor chap.

I really feel for my friend – she’s tried so hard with this one to get him right (he damaged his DDFT as a 3 year old and it was a long slow recovery).

Any thoughts / suggestions welcomed!

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

Hi, I would really recommend looking up the paper on ulcers written by Dr Ridgeway as it's very informative.

Dr Ridgeway also notes re right hand hind also being an issue with a horse that has gut issues. Thus leading to other hind muscular pattern issues.

Apart from the Gastrogard , Your friend needs a good gut supplement to help sort things out. Gastrogard can exacerbate hind gut issues as well and in my own personal experience with Ulcers I treated both post gg with RiteTrac from Saracen which returned my horse to being normal behaviour in 48 hours. My vet recommended this supplement as was in his exp the only one he knew worked.

I also changed diet permanently to high fibre, lots of hay in nibble nets) good balancer plus MagOx micronised linseed, yea saac.

Obviously once things have settled and healing u can then look at what else could b causing it if there are still issues and have further investigations. Not addressing gut problems promptly can in my experience end in colic.

 

[Lucky Lady]

Hi all – thought I’d sound out the wealth of experience on here to see if anyone can shed any light as to what might be wrong with my friends horse. BTW this is not a money saving short cut, he is being seen by a vet.

He has recently become less and less happy about being saddled/girthed, to the point of being quite nasty. Saddle was checked, girth was changed, physio checked his back (tight behind saddle), but his behaviour worsened.

He is 5 yrs old and 7/8ths thoroughbred (17 hands). He is very lean, verging on poor, so because of this coupled with the grumpiness the feeling was it could be ulcers.

I don’t have any experience of ulcers myself and whilst his management wouldn’t necessarily point to them (plenty of turnout in company, adlib hay when in, light work and a stress free lifestyle, and low sugar diet as is barefoot), I gather these things can sometimes just happen.

Physio came back out and said he was extremely sore behind the girth on his left hand side, and again she felt it could be ulcers.

He was scoped 10 days ago and was found to have grade 2 ulcers. The vet felt that whilst the ulcers weren’t particularly bad, they could well be the cause of his unhappiness and he has been given 2 weeks gastroguard.

However, what concerns me is the way he moves. He comes out of his stable stiff as a board, and when I ask him to turn back around, his tail kinks up to one side. He does this when walking uphill, the tail lifts and curls. He looks to me like he is in pain.

This could of course be typical of a horse with ulcers, as I say I have no experience of them. So I guess I’m asking if this is standard behaviour for a horse with ulcers, or if it is a case of – actually a lot of horses will have low grade ulcers if they are scoped and therefore there could be something else troubling the poor chap.

I really feel for my friend – she’s tried so hard with this one to get him right (he damaged his DDFT as a 3 year old and it was a long slow recovery).

Any thoughts / suggestions welcomed!

I strongly recommend that you try Gastoplus as this deals with the entire gastric system, so if they have spread to the hind gut or beyond, this will deal with it all. Check it out. My partners race horse battled with ulcers for 3yrs and was on GG on and off but he was deteriorating and was a skeleton until we came across GP. Unbelievable how it turned him around and gave him back his racing career.

Poor owner, she must be at her wits end!

 

[stilltrying]

Thank you both for your advice - I will refer back. I turned him out this morning and he just isn't right - sort of scuttles about with his tail in the air. Fingers crossed can get to the bottom of it.

Such a shame, what with this and her prev old boy's issues, I dont think she's had a sound horse for about 4 years!

 

[HD15]

However, what concerns me is the way he moves. He comes out of his stable stiff as a board, and when I ask him to turn back around, his tail kinks up to one side. He does this when walking uphill, the tail lifts and curls. He looks to me like he is in pain.

From talking to the vet when mine was diagnosed, they said that the way every horse reacts is different. So you could have a horse with only a few rather low grade ulcers who might act like they were in unbelievable pain and a horse with a severe problem with few signs. And I thought mine did move differently when he had them and there was some tail holding. Having said that he did also have lameness issues and tail scrunching can be a sign of back/SI pain. And as you say there isn't an immediate management reason why this horse has developed ulcers so it could worth considering if it is pain related. That's not to say it "is", just that it's worth considering.

If he were mine I'd probably put him on something to make sure his hind gut is happy (I used KER's Ritrac, though can't say for sure if it worked), make sure he is weaned very slowly off of the GG (we did 6wks full dose 2-3weeks of slowly stepping down the dose) and I'd keep an eye on the symptoms you are mentioning, if they don't go then I'd get the vet back out to have a look.

Fingers cross the ulcer treatment sorts it though!

 

[Wagtail]

Many horses have gastric ulcers, probably more than half of them. Whilst they can cause some of the symptoms you describe, I don't think that they are responsible for all of them. They can accompany other conditions such as kissing spine. I would suspect your friend's horse may well have this condition from the symptoms you describe. The only way to know is by xray.

 

[Goldenstar]

The thing with ulcers is that they are often the secondary issue and the primary issue causeing pain triggers the ulcers .
I hope your friend can get to the bottom of this horses issues .

 

[stilltrying]

Many horses have gastric ulcers, probably more than half of them. Whilst they can cause some of the symptoms you describe, I don't think that they are responsible for all of them. They can accompany other conditions such as kissing spine. I would suspect your friend's horse may well have this condition from the symptoms you describe. The only way to know is by xray.

This is what I was thinking - if you look, then the chances are you will find! God, no one has mentioned kissing spine yet, think that will send my friend spiraling into depression! Thanks though, all food for thought.

 

[stilltrying]

A quick update on this poor chap. He was scoped and found to have grade 2 ulcers, given course of GG. No real improvement in behaviour was seen. Vet came back and re-scoped, happy that ulcers were healed, he was then also started on a supplement for hind gut ulcers (apologies, not sure what it is) which he is still on. His behaviour has if anything worsened and will make a little cry / lash out if you touch his girth area (very similar horse on the youtube link re: ulcer pressure points). Vet now booked to come back out to do a thorough investigation.

I still wonder if the pain is coming from elsewhere and the ulcers were a result of the pain, not the cause. Fingers crossed the vet will find something.

Also - and probs should ask this in another thread - anyone found any dietary supplements to have actually caused ulcers? Horse is on all manner of supplements for his feet as is barefoot. Expect this is unlikely, but if vet finds nothing and horse continues to display extreme pain, I'd be inclined to strip his diet right back.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I would agree with you that the ulcers are very likely a secondary issue to pain elsewhere. My WB had grade 2 ulcers - his behaviour was very dangerous on the ground and then also finally ridden - he was eventually diagnosed by Newmarket with Sacro illiac dysfunction - so this chronic pain was the cause of his ulcers. Since treatment he has become a different horse. Good luck OP - your friend needs a good vet - I used a holistic vet in my WB's rehab - they get to the root cause of any problem rather than treating the problems they find in isolation. Horses like to please and all my vets are of the opinion that 99% of behavioural problems are pain related.