Horse injured by new horse being turned out.

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mbsports

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Just want to get peoples views on this. New horse put in field with my two.didnt bother to ask .He turned out to be a bully and pinned my 15hh mare against a gate. She was found trotting down the road where she had jumped gate. The gate is badly dented.. She has several cuts and worst of all has 2 very swollen hocks..She is going on bute for 3 days and hoping like hell she has not fractured them..
I am so angry with yard owner and owner of the new horse...
What would you do?
 
How maddening. How stupid of the YO. Don't know how you get any money out of either the owner or the YO. Suggest to YO that in future there is a "new horse turnout policy."
 
Been there had this, got nothing! Oh accept a £300 vet bill

Nothing can probably be done now, but echo above having a policy for introductions in future.
 
I would take issue with the YO for putting a new horse in with yours without telling you first - that way you could have at least been there.

As for where you stand for getting money it's a real grey area - horses will be horses and it would be very very difficult to prove any 'fault'. Whether the YO has been negligent is a different matter.
 
I would be very very angry, you just dont put strange horses out with other peoples horses without asking, I would infact be asking for the yo to pay the vets bill what a stupid thing to do.
 
I would have hit the roof to be honest. How totally unacceptable. I think you have been lucky she didnt break her neck!!

If it were me I think it would be a deal breaker on weather i stayed at yard or not to be honest.
 
AdorableAlice said:
If you have any fears there is serious damage to the hocks I don't think 3 days of bute is the right way to go.
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Me too, I am assuming a vet has seen her I would not self medicate something like that .
I would be having a strong word with the YOer she should have a better system in place for introductions but in legal terms I think it would be coming under the stuff happens category .
Hope it's nothing serious .
 
Hmmmm. Unfortunate and I do feel your pain, but, it is a risk you take, and accept, when you have your horse at livery and in communal turnout. I hope the injuries are just superficial and she recovers fast.

Introductions can be made carefully, horses can spend days/weeks being friendly over a fence, yet when they are put in the herd they automatically intrude on herd territory, and hooves can fly, despite a YO's best efforts. Horse owners themselves are not always honest, they may know their horse can be troublesome but they may not say so.

I certainly do not specifically inform my livery owners when I am putting a new horse out with the herd, it is in the contract that I, as the Yard Owner, have the right to move horses around as, and when, I see fit, if they don't like it we can try to arrange a compromise (individual turnout) or they can go somewhere that suits them better.
If an owner asks I will tell them my intentions but I don't go about emailing everyone "Rocky will be turned out at 10am, please give me your blessing and be here to watch the fun"

I always turn new horses out in the morning and I stay around to referee - with a long stick close at hand.
 
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Although I can understand how you feel, I don't think that you can rightfully be angry with the owner of the new horse, they have turned up on a yard and been instructed by the YO to put the horse out with yours. That is unless they knew their horse was aggressive in the field and didn't inform the YO. Then I would be angry with them both.
 
It is a difficult one. Unless you have sole exclusive use of the field, YO will have the right to put something else in the field. Obviously a nice YO would mention it to you and try and do some introductions gradually. However horses are horses and will squabble when introduced. It doesn't make him a bully. Unless he has form and was known for this before..

I would also be consulting the vet re your horse (you don't say if you have) and see what they say re her hocks.
 
twiggy2 said:
Why are you angry with the owner of the new horse?

Did anyone see what happened?
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This, you can't blame the owner - she was doing what she was told I assume. Unless she knew her horse was particularily aggressive and didnt tell the YO. YO is at fault so have it out with her, but you'll probably struggle to find proof unless you have witnesses?
 
What a horrible thing to happen, hope your mare will make a full recovery.

Who introduced the new horse into the field? Just wondering if it was the owner or the YO, and did anyone stay around to supervise, if so, who and for how long? Is there an official yard policy on introducing new horses or does it happen on an ad hoc basis? If there is nothing in writing, then I suspect that it will probably unfortunately be difficult to get any comeback, even if things were handled badly by the yard. Hope I'm wrong on that.

I would not stay on any yard that moved horses around without bothering to tell me first. Luckily I keep mine at home so that doesn't happen. I supervise any new turnout introductions very carefully, everything is turned out wearing head collars (which I normally never do) so anything can be grabbed quickly. Also they are introduced through talk grilles and adjacent grazing for at least a week before being turned out together.
 
I too would be angry with owner and yo ... As an owner of a horse I would never rock up a new yard and pop my boy out with other people's horses without talking to them first .. My horse simply would stay in for a day till I saw them .. It's very wrong IMO to just put the horse out .. And I would be very angry rightly or wrongly at both parties .. Was this horse new to the yard ? Just bought ? Or already on the yard just moved fields ?
 
Lambkins said:
I too would be angry with owner and yo ... As an owner of a horse I would never rock up a new yard and pop my boy out with other people's horses without talking to them first .. My horse simply would stay in for a day till I saw them .. It's very wrong IMO to just put the horse out .. And I would be very angry rightly or wrongly at both parties .. Was this horse new to the yard ? Just bought ? Or already on the yard just moved fields ?
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You often don't have a choice, and most people would 'trust' what the YO tells them regarding turning out etc.

The blame here lies fairly and squarely with the YO.
 
I'd leave the yard!! I need to trust that my horses are ok while I am not around, not have idiots like this around them. I hope your mare is ok.
 
I think it's just bad luck. As someone already said - you can introduce them gently gently over the fence and it can still all go wrong once they can actually make physical contact. Our turnout is in herds and generally a new horse just gets put in. The YO knows which of the existing horses are likely to bully the new one and will keep an eye or move that horse out to give new one a chance to settle in and build allegiances with the others first. If any of the existing horses are recovering from illness or anything then they'll be brought in to avoid undue stress but otherwise the horses are left to be horses and just get on with it. And since i've been there I've not had any problems with this (my mare is very demure and won't get involved but my boy is quite playful but not aggressive). In fact, we hardly ever get any injuries anyway and more often than not they just run around a bit and then settle down. I think the only injuries I've seen since being there have been from spats between established residents who already knew each other.

I would be angry if someone came with a horse which they knew was aggressive and didn't tell YO though.
 
mbsports said:
She has several cuts and worst of all has 2 very swollen hocks..She is going on bute for 3 days and hoping like hell she has not fractured them..
I am so angry with yard owner and owner of the new horse...
What would you do?
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What would I do? I'd get the vet out NOW!
 
... and this is why, if I were at livery, which I have no intention of ever doing so again, that I would insist on my horses having a private paddock. All my clients are completely welcome to take up my offer of individual/pair turnout. Most do not, in which case, in my eyes they accept the risk of a horse they don't own kicking seven sorts of stuffing out of their horse.

Most YO's do their best for peaceful herds, but whatever they do they can't please everyone all the time (as illustrated by most of the comments here ;) ) and basically, it is a case of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't'
 
Had this happen to me. YO would just add horses when ever she decided to. Asked for it not to happen but was told it was her yard her rules. Interestingly, my horses are natives and are out all the time while the other fields had herds of "supa dupa" horses in. So new horses would go in with my guys until such times as the horses behaviour could be assessed. In the end I left ......I found the YO to be irresponsible and unthinking. Horses were not put in quarantine either.
 
The first thing I would do is to get the vet out and have your horse thoroughly checked out including x rays.

Your yard owner has under law a 'duty of care' for you horse and anyone on the premises. I would simply instruct a specialist equine solicitor to take action against the yard owner and recover your full costs, expenses and non-use of horse from their insurers or in the event of them not being insured from them.

I have seen too many serious accidents caused by a new horse in a field kicking one of the others in a field and have always been very carefull about introding a horse to an existing heard.

Horses are very valuable commodities and can cost a lot to put right after an injury. Yard owners need to be very much more carefull.
 
Wow there are some fair drama queens on this thread, leaving a livery yard because horses are doing what horses do? Really?? Must be lots of affordable and great livery yards around you then. Horses are horses they kick, bite and bully each other, natural state of things, we add the added issues of being shod bit metal shoes. My older horse can be a ****** in the field, he hasnt been shod behind in years especially in with other peoples horses as hes savvy and quick with the legs.

Ive seen this sort of thing in established herds and im talking years of being together and been the one to break it up and having it be their horse getting the kicking. Nothing I could have done other than break it up and call the vet to put the legs and her flower back together and get it all to heal, trust me took nearly a year before all the injuries were healed as due to proud flesh and flower infections :(

OP Really you have no cause to be angry with the owner of the horse, yes you now have a sore mare and a vets bill but you need to accept this with horses. If anything Id speak with your YP and ask what happened and why, dont go in all guns blazing as you could end up with a lame horse and no livery to box rest it on if you go in the wrong way and yes your angry about the injury and the bills but your priority is getting her sorted not your emotional response to this, sort all that out later once things have cooled down, anger and upset are not the best table companions at a YO talk.

Hope your mare is ok and comes good with little damage.
 
Lambkins said:
I too would be angry with owner and yo ... As an owner of a horse I would never rock up a new yard and pop my boy out with other people's horses without talking to them first .. My horse simply would stay in for a day till I saw them .. It's very wrong IMO to just put the horse out .. And I would be very angry rightly or wrongly at both parties .. Was this horse new to the yard ? Just bought ? Or already on the yard just moved fields ?
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I've been at my yard for two years & never seen some of the owners of the horses that P is out with.

I put P out on first joining the yard on my YM's approval, who I would assume has told other owners (she does). If I waited to speak to each owner, P would still be waiting to be turned out.

The buck stops with the yard owner or yard manager. But I ditto whoever said to talk about it rationally & politely.
 
I sit on the fence here.

If you choose to go to a yard whereby it is group turnout then to some extent and purpose you have to accept the risk that goes with that. Horses will be horses. If you aren't prepared to take that risk then you find a yard that offers individual turnout, and pay accordingly.

Introducing horses over the fence is always a good option if possible but it doesn't completely take away the risk. I introduced my horse to a new field buddy this way once, they were fine over the fence. A few days later when they went in together the horse ran mine into the ground, resulting in a torn ligament and a year off work. That's horses for you, I didn't blame either the YO or the horse owner (although will admit to negative thoughts regarding the damn horse)

OP in your shoes I'd get a vet check and then evaluate the set up at your current yard to see if it meets your needs in the future.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Agreed, Black Beastie, horses will always be horses which is precisely why the people entrusted with their care need to take every reasonable precaution when dealing with them, which does not seem to have happened here.
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TBF we don't know what happened or how the horses where monitored when put together .
I had one break another's leg in an established herd it's a risk you take with turnout .
But I think yards need established policy's so people understand how it's done.
 
Are you all on teeny yards with only a handful of horses in small turnout paddocks? I have large fields, plenty big enough for any new horses to get away if they need to. I meet the horses, having listened to their owners description of them, and almost immediately I know which herd the horse will fit in with. I have lots of herds so am able to match horses easily into suitable herds. Horses go straight in with their new herd and we always make sure we have a job to do in close proximity to the field so that we can intervene immediately if there were to be anything go wrong. I have about 50 horses here and we've never had any injuries with horses coming into new herds. I do know all the horses very well though and I know how they will react to a newbie. I also do not inform owners that a new horse is going in their field unless they happen to come up and I mention it to them. I have way too many owners to be phoning them all up every time I do a herd change around but then why would I need to, as it's a non-event here when I do this every once in a while.

I'm sorry OP that your horse was injured. I hope the horse recovers and there's no lasting damage done. Perhaps you could ask for an individual field for your horse?
 
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