horse injured in vetting

T

the little ausie

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I had my horse vetted on Wednesday (just a cheap all rounder). He passed everything (flexion /trot up)until the vet used HUGE hoof testers on all four feet - including pressing on the frogs! He then was 2/10 lame on both front feet and 1/10 on both back feet and was failed by the vet.

My vet came to see him on Friday as still not 100% and decided he has deep bruises in his soles and suggested rest for 7 to 10 days. She said it could have been caused by over pressure with hoof testers especially as its all 4 feet.

I can now not show him to any prospective buyers until he is sound - does anyone know if there is any recourse to the vet that did the vetting. I had a sound horse - now I don't!
 
I hate hoof testers. Implements of torture if you ask me! Poor horse.

Although I don't think there is any recourse for you, there is no reason not to get a report from your vet. From your post I gather it was a different vet that did the vetting.

So, let me get this straight. The horse was sound before the hoof testers. Immediately afterwards, was lame and failed. I would seriously write a letter of complaint to the practice and say that the vet used excessive pressure to the point of bruising (incude report from your vet).

Awful.
 
I would suggest you contact RCVS to make a complaint about the vet in question - I'm sure they have disciplinary procedures, and if they find him/her guilty of misdemeanor that strengthens a compensation case.
 
Horrible for you, but I'm not sure much can be done, hopefully he'll be sound again soon. Often people don't let vets do flexions at vettings and recent debate around BOGOF's looks like lots of mare owners wouldn't let a vet to a physical pregnancy check either so I can only assume that watching the vet and not saying anything means you are implicitally giving your concent.

A strongly worded letter to the vet practice and RCVS may well help someone else in the future not be put through this - and make you feel better.
 
Oh dear, how horrible.It reads like you are almost sure the initial vet has caused the lameness, so you should write a (polite) letter to that practice outlining why you think this, including how it was caused. Sometimes you get newly qualified and/or inexperienced person doing vetting, did you know first vet?, so at least you have the satisfaction of knowing you flagged it up. If you had to pay call out for second vet and examination charges, then really that should be waived if same practice, or met by first practice I would think if it is as clearcut as you think.

Hope it all clears up and sound horse returns in a week or so.
 
Thanks for your replies.
It was the purchasers vet not mine who did the hoof testing/vetting.
I did mention to my Vet about making a complaint, she said I could but without another vet as a witness to the horse being sound and then not being sound, it would be difficult to prove that the hoof testers were not used correctly! So it would be my word against his.
Interested in Polo Mum's point about not allowing flexion tests at a vetting. This is the first horse I have ever sold and just assumed that all vets followed a set out procedure for a 5 stage vetting, is this not the case?
And can I as the seller refuse certain parts of the test?
 
Trouble is although you can technically decline procedures like flexion tests, it looks as though you suspect the horse won't pass them! So I suppose you would have to tellthe vendor beforehand and they could choose to not go ahead.
I am sorry for your horse, poor thing.
 
Clodagh said:
Trouble is although you can technically decline procedures like flexion tests, it looks as though you suspect the horse won't pass them! So I suppose you would have to tellthe vendor beforehand and they could choose to not go ahead.
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This

As far as I;m aware there are no set proceedures (but I;m not a vet!) If you explain to a potential buyer why you don't a certain test then suggest they discuss with their vets whether your concerns are founded and whether there is an alternative - hopefully their vet will calm them down - if they are sensible!!
 
I've never heard of a vet using hoof testers during a vetting. I could imagine a situation where a horse was mildly lame, the vet suspected a hoof problem and used the testers to confirm his/her suspisions thus making the horse more lame, but not as a standard part of the 5 * vetting. I would write to the practice that carried out the vetting and ask them to explain themselves. Does the vetting certificate note when the horse became lame, i.e if it says 'sound at x, y and z but lame after hoof testers' you may have the proof you need.
 
The directive in North America now is that flexion tests should be avoided in horses under two because of the significant risk of injury. I have actually seen this happen - and, more horrifyingly, heard the awful crunch - in a long yearling. :(
 
I'm really sorry but I suspect the vet was doing the right thing for his clients, the purchaser. Hoof testing isn't routine in a 5 star vetting and the only one of mine that has ever been tested was a declared laminitic.

My suspicion would be that the buyer's vet thought that the horse had thin/weak soles that might cause issues in the future for the buyers, and has deliberately used the testers quite hard for that reason. The fact that it has actually lamed the horse in all four feet straight away does seem to suggest that there could be an issue. The horse should, after all, be able to place his weight onto a stone when out on a hack without immediately coming up lame and staying lame (though I accept that it's far from uncommon for that to happen).

I doubt you will get anywhere with complaining about the vet even if you could prove that the horse was sound to start with. All he needs to say is that the fact that your horse went lame proves that he was right in his suspicions on the day.

I hope he's better soon and that you find him a nice home. If you have a stream handy, you should find it will help if you can stand him in it for as long as you can.
 
Clodagh said:
Trouble is although you can technically decline procedures like flexion tests, it looks as though you suspect the horse won't pass them! So I suppose you would have to tellthe vendor beforehand and they could choose to not go ahead.
I am sorry for your horse, poor thing.
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THis absolutely. I would not buy a horse where the vendor refused flexion tests. I've never seen a horse which didn't have a problem lamed by them, and I've seen several with latent problems exposed by them.
 
Booboos said:
I've never heard of a vet using hoof testers during a vetting. I could imagine a situation where a horse was mildly lame, the vet suspected a hoof problem and used the testers to confirm his/her suspisions thus making the horse more lame, but not as a standard part of the 5 * vetting. I would write to the practice that carried out the vetting and ask them to explain themselves. Does the vetting certificate note when the horse became lame, i.e if it says 'sound at x, y and z but lame after hoof testers' you may have the proof you need.
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I've never heard of it either, or seen it done.
 
I have seen hoof testers used during vetting, it seems to be one of the tests used by some vets and not others, as cptrayes says sometimes they may be suspicious of something and use a test to prove or disprove the suspicion.
As the seller there is little opportunity to stop a procedure once the vetting is underway, you will not know the effect until it is too late especially in the case of hoof testing, I have never felt the need to ask for any part to be omitted, it is the risk you take when selling a horse, they may be sound as far as you know but still fail on the day.
 
TarrSteps said:
The directive in North America now is that flexion tests should be avoided in horses under two because of the significant risk of injury. I have actually seen this happen - and, more horrifyingly, heard the awful crunch - in a long yearling. :(
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That is awful, my vet does flexions, but he always states theyre mild, that a problem will show even on a mild flexion and doesnt feel the need for them to be harsh and long
 
I paid for a vetting, vet (not my usual but highly recommended local guy) heard a very slight inspiratory noise and then scoped the horse as part of the vetting. Slightly surprised to have it added to my bill but saved me £5500 plus the cost of a later tie back when he found a problem with the largnx. If they have cause for concern they do sometimes do further tests to confirm.
 
My horse had completed all the stages of the vetting - including the horrendous trotting on a concrete circle and had shown no signs of any lameness. The only indication the vet gave for further investigation was that he has smallish feet! then out came the hoof testers.

It is becoming apparent with the range of replies, that what is or is not included in a 5 stage vetting seems to vary significantly.
 
Interesting thread! I have never seen a vet use hoof testers in a 5 stage... but - and I'm not saying it is applicable here but just to say it has been heard of - I have known in the past of a vet deliberately attempt to fail a horse, knowing that it would then have to be sold at a deflated price and passed this little bit of info onto a friend/client so they could "pick up a bargain" :-(

The vet in this instance didn't use hoof testers, like I say I've never seen them used? It was in the situation I know of the lunging in 3metre circle on sharp jagged rocky hardcore stone, behind a barn not even in an accessible part of the farm. (And even worse vet took over and lunged horse themself, funny it went HOPPING and "failed" outright - vets friend was on the phone within hours with a ridiculously low offer!)
 
Polos Mum said:
This

As far as I;m aware there are no set proceedures (but I;m not a vet!) If you explain to a potential buyer why you don't a certain test then suggest they discuss with their vets whether your concerns are founded and whether there is an alternative - hopefully their vet will calm them down - if they are sensible!!
Click to expand...

I would never buy a horse without flexion tests and lunging on the hard on a ten metre circle.
I simply would walk away being pretty pissed off that I had not been told a the first phone call so I could avoid wasting time viewing.
 
If a vet does not use hoof testers how on earth can they assess if the horse has bilateral heel pain or not?
All the times I have present when my horses are are vetted hoof testers have been used.
 
Interesting - yet again more conflicting information.

"BEVA Guidelines for Pre Purchase Examinations

BEVA/RCVS Guidance Notes on the Examination of a Horse on Behalf of a Prospective Purchaser (amended 2012)

This document has been produced jointly by the British Equine Veterinary Association and the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.

Flexion tests and trotting in a circle on a firm surface are not mandatory parts of the standard procedure, but they can sometimes provide useful additional information about a horse. There may be circumstances when the examining veterinary surgeon concludes that it is unsafe or inappropriate to perform such tests."

And just to add another thread to this mix - Insurance. A horse valued under £4000 (for most insurance companies) does not need any vetting to have full health insurance cover. HOWEVER if a horse of this value has been vetting anything that was noted (even if not a failure) must be declared to the insurance company and they are then likely to put an exclusion on that!
 
Have to admit, I don't remember hoof testers at either of my horses vettings, and on Nugz, the Vet didn't even do the flexion test despite being a 5* as he said it in his experience it is not foolproof, especially in younger horses (horse was 3 1/2yrs old at time). He just checked the horse can pick up all 4 feet in a way the farrier would, and if there was stiffness, or reluctance (if there was no manners/training issues) he would do further tests.

If you don't have a copy of the vet report (not sure how it works in terms of being able to have a copy) might be worth asking for one, if only for your records. I don't think there is recourse though, and while your vet might think there might be a chance of the hoof testers causing the issue, they will still be un-likely to put that in writing as there are too many variables.
 
Vets can be asked by clients to test for all kinds of things in a vetting.

I remember when I was buying over 5 years now the vets asked me if there was anything I was concerned about or specificially wanted them to test for as well as the standard vetting.

It could be if the potential purchasers had had a horse with lots of hoof problems before that they asked the vet to make sure the hooves were very strong to try to avoid having a horse with similar problems.
 
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