Horse Insurance Stress! Help, First timer!

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AgarTheWarmblood

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We own a 9yr old Warmblood who I'm looking to insure.

We've had him exactly a year now, uninsured and have had to have the vet out twice in total, firstly for an abscess in his front left (all ok now), and again on Monday as he was limping after a hack- diagnosed by the vet as shoes that are pinching his frog as it is very wide (remedial farrier coming out tonight to assess).

We did have him vetted when we first bought him, but he was quite underweight and not in a good condition so not keen on divulging all the info in that to a potential insurer as they said he would probably never be 100% sound on his front left and would only be suitable for low level competitions, nothing more strenuous. Now a year on he is fully sound in his front left and much stronger all round, so i'm sure a new vetting would say a very different thing (although I don't fancy forking out another £500 to prove it if I don't have to).

Having had others look at him in the meantime (not vets), it has become apparent that he is likely to have suffered a sacroiliac injury in his pelvis/hip as his back end is weak and he has more muscle on one side than the other. However, this being said, we have no proof or record of the injury and the previous owner does not know of any injury that might be the cause of this. I should also say that he doesn't show any signs of pain, not being sound, etc.

I want to get him insured, and I want to be honest- or as honest as I can be without excluding half the horse, but what would I have to tell them? Would they exclude his front left just because of the abscess, would I absolutely have to declare that he was vetted a year ago? Would I need to mention his hip even though there is no record of an injury

Eventually, if I insured him, I would like to get his hip/pelvis fully investigated to see if there are any traces of this injury and what effect this would have on his health, but would this even be possible if it was seen as an 'old injury'?

Sorry for all the questions, just a first time horse insurer trying to find the best way to go about this.

TIA

Sarah x
 
If you are insuring him, without disclosing a known problem, in order to investigate a known/suspected problem then this is actually fraud.

In the event of a claim all insurance companies will pull a full clinical history, and if they then find out you have wilfully withheld information then they would be well within their rights not to pay.

If you are reasonably confident the bulk of your horses issues have resolved I would be inclined to do another vetting. If you box to local practice you should be able to get it done for about £250.

If your horse has a very obvious asymmetry then it will likely be picked up and noted (and excluded anyway)
 
ihatework said:
If you are insuring him, without disclosing a known problem, in order to investigate a known/suspected problem then this is actually fraud.

In the event of a claim all insurance companies will pull a full clinical history, and if they then find out you have wilfully withheld information then they would be well within their rights not to pay.

If you are reasonably confident the bulk of your horses issues have resolved I would be inclined to do another vetting. If you box to local practice you should be able to get it done for about £250.

If your horse has a very obvious asymmetry then it will likely be picked up and noted (and excluded anyway)
Click to expand...

^^^^ This.
 
Would his suspected hip problem be something I need to disclose if I haven't had anyone professional diagnose it? It's just been speculation from friends etc so far.

Would they exclude his front left due to the abscess? Or do they only exclude if something more serious/ ongoing?

Thanks
 
Most likely the front left would be excluded, not just because of the abscess but because of that diagnosis way back that he would never be 100% sound on that one. There obviously is something ongoing or he would have made a recovery and not be restricted to low level competition. As to the hip problem, even though not diagnosed officially yet, if you had the investigation done after insuring and the diagnosis was that the problem existed at the time the insurance was taken out it could be taken to be a pre-existing condition and therefore not covered and you would end up footing the bill anyway.

To be totally honest, whichever way I look at this, you are going to end up with exclusions and possibly in hot water if you don't disclose the full facts about his previous history.
 
Why do you want him insured?

From the sounds of things, the problems that you want the insurance to pay out for won't be covered anyway.
 
You will have an exclusion on the front left due to the original vetting. Only if the horse was completely sound at revetting could you assume that wouldn't be applied.

As for the abcess - I'd expect any complications arising from that abcess to be excluded but wouldn't expect a blanket exclusion on the limb for a straightforward abcess

The pelvis - no it wouldn't be excluded if you didn't mention it, unless it was noted on the original vetting? But if it isn't causing a problem why would you open up a can of worms?
 
Sorry to jump in on this but if you buy a new horse don't have it vetted for whatever reason how does it work with insurance as normally you won't know an issue which the horse has had in the past unless very honest sellers??
Can insurance find out stuff that I cant?
 
When I insured (after a year of not being insured) the new insurance company asked for a vetting and the medical history, luckily the vet had the medical history from day one (8 years ago) when we first had our mare. They did exclude a couple of things but when I queried one of the exclusions the insurance company agreed to insure it on condition that the vet agreed it was a one off.
 
Front leg will be excluded unless you can get a vet to say there are no longer any issues with it. As for the pelvis, reading between the lines, it sounds as though you realise there MAY be an issue that will need expensive investigations and this is why you are getting him insured. Apologies if this is incorrect. To answer your question, as he has no medical records which mention the asymmetry, it would not be excluded. However, if you later decide to investigate and your insurers find that it was a pre-existing condition, regardless of whether or not you knew about it, they would refuse to pay out. When you take out the insurance, you will complete a questionnaire which will ask you the question whether your horse has any pre-existing conditions. Strictly speaking, he has not because you only have non vets tell you there may be a problem. But if the insurers got wind of this you could be done for fraud, because in fact you DO suspect there may be a pre existing condition. I hope this helps.
 
Dizzydancer said:
Sorry to jump in on this but if you buy a new horse don't have it vetted for whatever reason how does it work with insurance as normally you won't know an issue which the horse has had in the past unless very honest sellers??
Can insurance find out stuff that I cant?
Click to expand...

there will be limits on your policy and you leave it open for your insurance company to claim something was pre-existing even if it was not but there is a chance it could have been
 
AgarTheWarmblood said:
Eventually, if I insured him, I would like to get his hip/pelvis fully investigated to see if there are any traces of this injury and what effect this would have on his health, but would this even be possible if it was seen as an 'old injury'?
Click to expand...

This is absolutely not what insurance is for. No-one should insure a horse so that they can investigate something they cannot afford to pay for themselves. It is a known problem and if you want to investigate, why should an insurer pay out?

Insurance is for unforeseen accidents and illnesses that happen to a previously healthy horse. You don't expect to buy a car and then claim on insurance if it fails its MOT? Car insurance is for unseen accidents, fire and theft and horse insurance should be seen in the same light.

Unfortunately, it is the assumption that insurance is a big pot of money to spend on veterinary investigations that puts everyone's insurance premiums up.

More people should insure their horses for third party only and then put £50 or £100 per month in a savings account so that you are prepared for veterinary expenses - in effect, self-insuring.

Sorry if that's a little blunt, but insurance exclusions are getting silly because claims are getting silly . . .
 
Dizzydancer said:
Sorry to jump in on this but if you buy a new horse don't have it vetted for whatever reason how does it work with insurance as normally you won't know an issue which the horse has had in the past unless very honest sellers??
Can insurance find out stuff that I cant?
Click to expand...

I bought a horse some years ago and didn't get it vetted. The reason being that I had been riding it for over a year, and bought it from the breeders who I knew and trusted and had a complete history. 5 years later she became lame with arthritis and the insurance refused to pay out as I couldn't actually "prove" she wasn't arthritic when I bought her. IMO no point insuring a horse if you don't get a vetting, unless it is just to cover accidental injury.
 
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