Horse is dangerous to ride. Pyhsical or pyschological?

[MeganMarie]

Hi, so this may be a long one, so please bear with.

So I have a 6 rising 7 (in April) warmblood gelding we've only had him since April last year. About 4 months ago, he started bucking undersaddle (which was totally out of character). It got progressively worse to the point he wouldn't even do a stride of canter without bucking. We had a vet out, nerve blocked his hind suspensories - which improved him a tiny bit. He came out a second time, where he nerve blocked his sacroiliac which made no improvement, he also x-rayed his spine and hocks, and nothing was found. He referred him to Newmarket Equine Hospital. The vet who saw him, thought he was bilaterally lame, when lunged on both soft and hard surfaces and a little lame when trotting in a straight line. Over this time, he was getting progressively worse with the bucking, he wouldn't even walk without attempting to buck, backing up, rearing etc and had actually become extremely dangerous. He would buck on the lunge, if he got spooked on excited, but not always and was better than being ridden. He's a very spooky horse and a bit of a stress-head.

He had a bone scan, which was inconclusive and didn't pick up anything serious. They decided to nerve block his hocks, which made him sound - he had injections in them. They also ultra-sounded his suspensories, which showed mild changes, but all vets said it was fine and there was no need to rehab it etc.
He has a sore lower back, which they think was caused by the hock pain, causing him to be tense. He has regular physio (before and after this started) which is improving his back.
He was told to lunge for 6 weeks, walk and trot, gradually increasing trot time, to help strengthen his back muscle. Vet came out after 6 weeks, watched him lunge, said he looked much better and sound. He then recommended starting ridden work. He's had the saddle fitter out multiple times, and had them out before I got back on and all was good. But when I did, he was exactly the same and worse. I find when on him, if you sit and don't do anything, he'll stand there. If you add the slightest leg pressure, it's when he starts acting up. (He has always been a very sensitive horse).
We're unsure whether this is psychological or something more. The vet is coming out in a couple weeks, to check up and we'll discuss what's happening then.

The only thing that has not been looked at is the possibility of ulcers. Not vet recommended looking into it. He doesn't have loss of appetite, weight loss, lack of stamina etc. but I know not all horses exhibit the symptoms and some can have severe ulcers with no symptoms. Would it be worth just speaking to the vet and attempting to treat it, and see if there is an improvement? All of these tests have eaten through our insurance.

We're kind of at a loss really. We're thinking of seeing if someone will ride him and see if he acts the same with a different rider, but I understand if people don't want to put themselves in danger. I'm not scared or nervous of him, but he is becoming extremely dangerous and one of these days, one of us is going to get hurt.

He's also had his teeth checked by a qualified dentist which all was fine.

Anyone had something similar?
Physical, psychological? Is he just testing the waters?

Sorry this is so long.
Thanks in advance.

 

[HeyMich]

Yes, ask for a scope. Ulcer pain can cause all sorts of 'behavioural' issues, and especially since there is a history of orthopedic pain, which can cause the onset of ulcers.

They remember pain too, so even if he scopes clear, doesn't mean he's not anticipating the remembered pain. For this, he needs to be taken right back to basics and taught that not all ridden work will hurt.

Poor boy, hope he feels better soon! Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

 

[be positive]

It definitely sounds as if he has a physical reason to be playing up and I would suspect ulcers may well be the reason, they could have been the main cause of the bucking initially because the pain from the hocks may have caused them, I would scope rather than just treat as it is the cheapest part and will help the vet give the most appropriate treatment depending on what is found.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would insist on testing for both gastric and hindgut ulcers.

 

[sportsmansB]

Replying as didn't want to read and run.. and also wanted to say he is lucky to have you to try and find out what is bothering him so much.
Ulcers can present in many different ways, so it probably is worth asking the vet to scope - it would be a shame to go through all that other stuff to find that the real root of the problem is one that can be treated (albeit more expense!)
A different (potentially stronger, as that might be all you can persuade to get on him!) rider may have a different experience, but you don't sound like a complete numpty and you have tried to ride him through it so its unlikely to be taking the p**s such as you would get with a real novice rider and an opinionated welshy who is testing the boundaries (If you know what I mean!). A very strong rider might be able to ride him through it but that doesn't mean he is OK, just that he gives in, so its not necessarily a reliable test anyway.
Hope this rambling makes sense!

 

[eggs]

I thought ulcers as well. I've had a couple go to Newmarket for lameness workups and they have always been very good so it does sound as though there is something else going on with your horse.

 

[SEL]

My mare was fat when her ulcers were diagnosed. Ultimately we tracked the source of pain down to PSSM / hocks and flare ups in either area still cause her to get tetchy around her stomach.

 

[Leo Walker]

I'd want him scoped for ulcers and a really good osteopathic vet out to look at him.

 

[paddy555]

in view of the age and his reactions PSSM 2 would be top of my list to check for. PSSM has a knock on effect to gut problems, ie horse in pain from muscles and holding himself badly knocks on to gut pain, maybe ulcers, maybe not. For mine it was hind gut.

type-2-polysaccharide-storage-myopathy points 4 and 6 of this link (which I hope works)

many of the symptoms you describe are pain eg spooky, stress,
there is little help from vets about PSSM. Mine knew nothing about it. You can go on endlessly trying to find a solution to horse's with these sort of problems but, if it is PSSM, unless you deal with it you never get anywhere.
PSSM cannot be cured and there is no medication. It is purely controlled by management.

 

[scats]

How mild were the suspensory changes? I only ask coz my mare showed very, very mild changes, but her behaviour was absolutely horrific. Nothing else was found so we have had to accept the fact that she is ridiculously sensitive to it.
I wouldn’t rule out that the PSD might be playing a part in this behaviour, despite it being mild.

It started with bucking and changing leads, then refusal to canter, then refusal to trot. Eventually if I put leg on she would reverse and rear.

 

[Goldenstar]

As above .
And you need to rule out ulcers .
And I would look for markers for both chronic and acute inflammation in the blood .

 

[Abi90]

Yes sounds like my mare when she had ulcers (also had a mild bilateral stifle issue as well). Started with bucking into canter, then trot, then walk then wouldn’t move at all.

She had ulcers. Once ulcers gone and stifles treated and she’s fine and hasn’t put a foot wrong since

 

[Pc2003]

I would def scope for ulcers then regardless of the outcome is there anywhere you can turn him out and away for a while?
2 years out with doctor green in a herd sorted my guy after a similar diagnosis and a similar build up to the diagnosis. Mine went on retirement livery for 2 years

 

[JanetGeorge]

When any young horse starts behaving out of character, I tend to think 'growth pain' first (the vet only agrees it's NOT suspensories when 1 is lame on the OTHER leg 6 weeks later and one is sound, lol. Ifhorse is also a bit bum high, that is also a sign. So I hcuck them in the field for 3 months if they're mine. Otherwise you warn owner about costs - and start with test for hind gut ulcers, particularly if there is also a bit of cribbing, and the horse is tetchy about being groomed on off side from girth area back and very girthy too. In fact if those symptoms went along with bucking, I wouldn't bother wasting money on testing (although it's not expensive - just a test on dung for blood.) I just buy a big tub of Acid Ease. After 2 weeks, horse happier is as good as a test - and already shows part healed. Lameness doesn't make a horse buck - or not IME anyway. Kissing Spines often will - and can be the first symptom you notice (painfully.) I am fortunate in having a VERY good physio - she has 'diagnosed' 2 cases of KS for me - confirmed on x-ray. A third she suspected but x-rays showed it was not KS but a calcified ligament across the saddle area.

 

[Melody Grey]

Has the possibility of sacroiliac problems/ KS been investigated? They can run hand in hand with hock problems in a chicken and egg type situation in my experience.

Good luck in getting it all sorted

 

[bubsqueaks]

I'd want him scoped for ulcers and a really good osteopathic vet out to look at him.

This - ours had glandular ulcers on the exit from the stomach - when you look at the location of where this is its where saddle sits - his reaction was extreme bronking