Horse is home. More lami advice please?!!!

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poiuytrewq

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After my last thread about my retired boy suddenly getting his first bout of laminitis, I've just got him home. He's done 3 weeks box rest and is sound, off Bute and was bouncing off the walls. The stable was borrowed short term until he was moveable.
I'm not quite sure where I go from here.
I have a stable, a woodchip pen and fields. One which has been grazed off but is more of a walk away and one with longer grass.
My rough plan is to have him in at night, in the pen by day, both with soaked hay and to re-Introduce Turnout slowly in the afternoons.
Thought process being that by afternoon any frost will be gone and I'm around so it's easier to give him a shorter period of time.
Which field would be better? He hates muzzles and breaks them quickly.
This is the horse who only has two options, he's happy or pts. I'm not interested in any more box rest for him, nor am I interested in keeping him in this pen long term as it's no life for him. I'm not being a bitch but he's ok or not, I'm not watching him battle this for years. Also want to give him every chance so advice as to how others have or would do this transition with the best chance of a successful outcome would be fab please. :)
 
Yep thanks, the vet Is due to come out and take bloods. We are a little out of the way so I leave non-emergencies as "when your in the area" visits.
Ok, so just stick with stable-pen until tested?
 
I'd get the laminitis app on your phone if possible it may help you with starting to introduce turnout. bloods usually a few days no idea on dosage, depends on blood result to some extent.
 
poiuytrewq said:
Does anyone know how long test results take and a rough doseage of prascend for a 16.2?!! (I suspect a lot!)
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Probably a week for results. Dosage will depend on his count. My 17.2 was high 80's and went onto 1 pill per day at least 4 years ago now. In the summer of 2016 he had LV and his dosage went up to 1 1/2. He has been back on 1 throughout 2017, looks fab and had a count of 27 on the last test.
 
Next day for cushings tests when I've had them done. And I use the laminitis app even with my non lamintic pony. It is definitely worth having. It was off the chart yesterday morning when it was frosty and sunny.
 
poiuytrewq said:
I've been looking at the ap. Is it very accurate?
Ah ok, I thought it was just weight/size related.
Thanks :)
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accuracy depends how close you are to your local weather station, and it's never going to be amazing but is a helpful tool to add to the box. (and if it were in the red, and I had a horse recovering from lami I wouldn't risk it).
 
AdorableAlice said:
Probably a week for results. Dosage will depend on his count. My 17.2 was high 80's and went onto 1 pill per day at least 4 years ago now. In the summer of 2016 he had LV and his dosage went up to 1 1/2. He has been back on 1 throughout 2017, looks fab and had a count of 27 on the last test.
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AA excuse my ignorance but by LV, you mean Vasculitis? Is there some kind of link here? This is my vasculitis sufferer. He was clear this summer though which was wonderful.

I will try the ap then, any help is good!

So so happy he's home.
 
I'd be getting the testing done before allowing him any more than a few minutes hand grazing. The results would be turned around in a few days. So I'd plan for up to 6-8 weeks further micromanagement before considering full time turnout.

FWIW my 16.2hh was controlled on 1 tablet a day for 4 years then was on 2 a day for his final year
 
I'm feeling more hopeful about the tablets not costing me a fortune now! Our tiny companion pony at work is on one a day so I was worried he'd be needing loads and affording it.
 
poiuytrewq said:
AA excuse my ignorance but by LV, you mean Vasculitis? Is there some kind of link here? This is my vasculitis sufferer. He was clear this summer though which was wonderful.

I will try the ap then, any help is good!

So so happy he's home.
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No ignorance ! and yes, my lad just couldn't start the healing process and by increasing the dose it just helped him, along with filtabac. Cushings dampens the immune system, hence struggling with healing process for minor scrapes, skin problems etc.
 
Definitely get tested. Mine is better on short grass. I think it’s purely because they can’t eat it as quickly. I’d never be able to turn out onto a field with long grass unrestricted, I know they’d get laminitis.

My Cushings pony lives out on a couple of acres. They have a track in the summer and then all of it in the winter.
 
poiuytrewq said:
Does anyone know how long test results take and a rough doseage of prascend for a 16.2?!! (I suspect a lot!)
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My 16hh Draft horse, whose barrel is about as wide as her legs are long, is only on one tablet of Prascend. The results should be back in a few days but your vet might want to wait until the laminitis has subsided a bit more so as not to skew the results. Although mine had a recurrent abscess which we couldn't clear up until the Prascend kicked in.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
My 16hh Draft horse, whose barrel is about as wide as her legs are long, is only on one tablet of Prascend. The results should be back in a few days but your vet might want to wait until the laminitis has subsided a bit more so as not to skew the results. Although mine had a recurrent abscess which we couldn't clear up until the Prascend kicked in.
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That’s the trouble, if they have acute laminitis it doesn’t always subside on its own. My experience is healing is much much quicker once you medicate. OP has said her horse is now sound so I can’t see any reason to wait (apart from the geography of the vet getting there).
 
What did the last set of x rays show? If there is still some chance of movement in P3 you need boots and pads to turn him out, to avoid the pedal bone moving irrevocably. If the x rays indicate he is safe to turn out without you need to establish the underlying cause and eliminate it so it doesn't happen again. Until you have, bare paddock, boots with pads and soaked hay are the safest thing
And PLEASE read The Laminitis Site, all the answers you will need are on there, based on good evidence and many many cases
 
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My vet said they only really X-ray if the horse is in work. She said it was up to me but she didn't think it really necessary.
I might be inclined to get it done if he go's down with it again but right now Im leaving it as I need to get a bit more sorted financially after a crazy rough horse year.
She also said I had to wait until late this week/early next week really for the best test results. I can't do this week (work and family funeral) so next it has to be.
I'm sure he will be fine in the woodchip pen til the results are back.
 
poiuytrewq said:
My vet said they only really X-ray if the horse is in work. She said it was up to me but she didn't think it really necessary.
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That is total rubbish, read what they say on TLS, the first question they asked me was about x rays and how important they were, And they are. For one thing your farrier/trimmer can't rehabilitate unless they know what is going on inside. Up to you but you are taking a huge risk

From TLS "Support your horse's feet immediately to minimise damage, restrict movement and encourage him/her to lie down. Have digital radiographs (x-rays) taken, and get the feet trimmed to correct/realign rotation/distal descent as soon as possible to prevent further damage.
Failure to realign the hoof to P3 quickly can cause circulation compromise leading to infection, bone loss and eventually euthanasia.
"Too many horses fail to recover from laminitis due to incorrect trimming." ECIR Group & Dr Eleanor Kellon www.ecirhorse.com"
 
JillA said:
That is total rubbish, read what they say on TLS, the first question they asked me was about x rays and how important they were, And they are. For one thing your farrier/trimmer can't rehabilitate unless they know what is going on inside. Up to you but you are taking a huge risk

From TLS "Support your horse's feet immediately to minimise damage, restrict movement and encourage him/her to lie down. Have digital radiographs (x-rays) taken, and get the feet trimmed to correct/realign rotation/distal descent as soon as possible to prevent further damage.
Failure to realign the hoof to P3 quickly can cause circulation compromise leading to infection, bone loss and eventually euthanasia.
"Too many horses fail to recover from laminitis due to incorrect trimming." ECIR Group & Dr Eleanor Kellon www.ecirhorse.com"
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I agree with this. You need xrays to see if there's rotation.
If you wait til he comes down with it again you will most likely lose him.
 
poiuytrewq said:
Ok. :( comes to something when you can't even trust your bloody vet for the best advice.
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My farrier insists that my vet (at the time) lost me my 6 yr old Shire to laminitis because of his incorrect advice. I now think that she had PPID but was never tested for it and vet didn't seem to recognise laminitis either. The vet was from a specialist equine practice which has been mentioned on here more than once.
 
poiuytrewq said:
Ok. :( comes to something when you can't even trust your bloody vet for the best advice.
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This is exactly what happened to me. Thanks to Auslander I got an amazing vet in for a second opinion, but I lost him anyway. I think the couple of weeks where my vets werent on the ball started the damage that eventually meant he was PTS
 
My gelding had all four X-rayed, five of us, one horse and a £30k machine all in one stable :-0 the farrier then trimmed accordingly. Horse recovered (yes it cost a fortune no he isn't insured) and is doing well. In hindsight it was almost certainly AM which then caused toxic laminitis, not tested at the time because by then it was definitely laminitis and we just had to do our best.
 
Annoying aye?!
I actually even phoned the vet and said " pretty sure he has laminitis" so she didn't even diagnose really.
Sorry about you guys horses. My farrier did say I should have just called him first.
She (vet) also said to soak his hay for 12 plus hours. Having a dust allergy sufferer I'm fairly clued up on hay soaking and the fact it would be rancid and pretty unpalatable by then.
 
One useful thing that I think should be in many First Aid kits now is a set of frog wedges from Formula 4feet. Tear drop shaped they were bandaged on and instantly gave support and he moved more easily. From there we moved on to hideous,y expensive glue on shoes - we had two full sets at £400 per set... They made him instantly sound and so happy. From there is was metal heart bars for two or three sets and now it's normal shoes.
 
I'm assuming that although my horse was terribly sore at first he very quickly was ok again (within days) so he had a mild case and cases such as spot the risk and others above are bad cases?

I've read some interesting bits on the Laminitis site. It ties in with info my farrier has given me so that's a huge relief!
 
This is a big horse yes?

IMO even more important to get xrays to check for rotation/trim to xrays if appropriate because they have an awful lot more weight going through those hooves to support.

Re. the vet saying that I've recently had the dichotomy of well we wouldn't bother doing that with such an old essentially retired pony, and other people that would throw everything at it. They should at least give you both options to discuss. Any horse with lami is immediately not working by definition.
 
She did, in all fairness say I can have X-rays if I really wanted but absolutely made out it was a waste of time and only done in horses who were in work and to rehab back to a ridden career.
 
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