Horse jumps better in draw reins than without

GSLS

GSLS

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A horse I know jumps better in draw reins than without

Both in a bitless bridle (dr cook) and bitted

What does this mean?

And what does it mean the horse is lacking without the draw reins?
 
Security. Had an event horse who had always been jumped in draw reins and when he came to us he had to go without but he was just never brave- he had to be held really tight in the contact to take off. Urghhh!!
 
The horse is always brave and never refuses it's just more careful in draw reins. Sorry for not specifying that xx
TheMule said:
Security. Had an event horse who had always been jumped in draw reins and when he came to us he had to go without but he was just never brave- he had to be held really tight in the contact to take off. Urghhh!!
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It is not advisable to jump in draw reigns ! To wean it off draw reigns try a Market Harborough ,jump on the tightest peg ,then go down a peg, then another ,until you are on the slackest then put it away at the back of the tackroom.
 
neddy man said:
It is not advisable to jump in draw reigns ! To wean it off draw reigns try a Market Harborough ,jump on the tightest peg ,then go down a peg, then another ,until you are on the slackest then put it away at the back of the tackroom.
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Why you an market harborough which is fixed and can't be let out by the rider would be better than a draw rein I just can't imagine .
 
Better yet, just leave the draw reins alone and train the horse properly? Why fanny around with MHs...
 
You don't get my point Neddy man , personally I never jump in draw reins but if I did I would control of how long they where I could lengthen and shorten them when I chose so I could have them completely out of action on the approach to the fence and over it and bring it back into action if it was 'needed'
You can't do that with a Market Harborough .
 
OP, you haven't had many helpful answers so I will give it a bash!
Draw reins used when jumping 'help' the horse make a rounder shape over the back and prevent him going inverted.
I assume without the guidance of draw reins your horse jumps more hollow and therefore get a bit 'trailey legged' and gets a pole.
To help his technique try grid work, bounces etc. Also sometimes it helps to have something a bit 'looky' under ther fence which helps the horse to drop his head and bring his shoulders up.
 
Goldenstar said:
You don't get my point Neddy man , personally I never jump in draw reins but if I did I would control of how long they where I could lengthen and shorten them when I chose so I could have them completely out of action on the approach to the fence and over it and bring it back into action if it was 'needed'
You can't do that with a Market Harborough .
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Sorry, but mine are very long ,so can be used in the same style .Yes i get your point .
 
You want to know why the horse goes and jumps better in draw reins?

Balance.

That's the crux of it. There are some very rare times where draw reins can be beneficial to a horse, but they are very few and far between and the draw reins shouldn't be needed for more than a week (at most) and not to put the horses head on the vertical.

Basically though, what draw reins can do for a horse when they are used all of the time, is offer a support against which the horse can balance. They don't need to lean on the reins, but they become only able to balance themselves when they are carried by the reins. It's basically what I call riding only the head and neck of the horse. I say this because, I personally find (through many years of rehabbing draw reined horses) that they learn to give at the 3rd vertebra and just bend the neck. This actually encourages a hollowing of the back, which restricts the movement of the hind legs under the horse, so a horse eventually builds muscle to support it in this way of (incorrect) going. Then, when you take the draw reins off, the horse will struggle to find that place for itself and remain in balance. Correct balance is created by a correct movement and build up of strength, but when muscles have developed to support a hollow back, the horse will not find it easy to balance without the neck being put in the place that allows it to support that way of going (the muscles built from draw rein use).

When that come to jumping, the same applies. With the draw reins, the stronger muscles are engaged and the horse has the balance to cope with the jumping. Without them, the horse struggles to find that same (incorrect) balance and so will struggle with confidence.

Much the same as walking a tight rope with a hand rail, then suddenly having the hand rail taken away. You'd be a lot more hesitant to do it!

So, what the horse needs, is to have the draw reins taken away, to be allowed to lengthen the neck out wherever it naturally goes and just do road work for a few weeks, then gradually build up basic schooling, not with ANY thought to where the head is, but work ONLY towards the goal of lifting the back under the saddle. When that is achieved, the hinds can move further under the horse, the back will be round and the neck and head will follow suit and come down into independent balance.

Only when I a horse was working consistently (not necessarily consistent in frame as that takes much more time and strength) in the balance of not hollowing the back...would I begin to bring back jumping and I would start with poles, then poles to a single, then bounce, then start grid work. But I would do that over a period of months, not weeks.

Hope that all makes sense.
 
_GG_ said:
You want to know why the horse goes and jumps better in draw reins?

Balance.

That's the crux of it. There are some very rare times where draw reins can be beneficial to a horse, but they are very few and far between and the draw reins shouldn't be needed for more than a week (at most) and not to put the horses head on the vertical.

Basically though, what draw reins can do for a horse when they are used all of the time, is offer a support against which the horse can balance. They don't need to lean on the reins, but they become only able to balance themselves when they are carried by the reins. It's basically what I call riding only the head and neck of the horse. I say this because, I personally find (through many years of rehabbing draw reined horses) that they learn to give at the 3rd vertebra and just bend the neck. This actually encourages a hollowing of the back, which restricts the movement of the hind legs under the horse, so a horse eventually builds muscle to support it in this way of (incorrect) going. Then, when you take the draw reins off, the horse will struggle to find that place for itself and remain in balance. Correct balance is created by a correct movement and build up of strength, but when muscles have developed to support a hollow back, the horse will not find it easy to balance without the neck being put in the place that allows it to support that way of going (the muscles built from draw rein use).

When that come to jumping, the same applies. With the draw reins, the stronger muscles are engaged and the horse has the balance to cope with the jumping. Without them, the horse struggles to find that same (incorrect) balance and so will struggle with confidence.

Much the same as walking a tight rope with a hand rail, then suddenly having the hand rail taken away. You'd be a lot more hesitant to do it!

So, what the horse needs, is to have the draw reins taken away, to be allowed to lengthen the neck out wherever it naturally goes and just do road work for a few weeks, then gradually build up basic schooling, not with ANY thought to where the head is, but work ONLY towards the goal of lifting the back under the saddle. When that is achieved, the hinds can move further under the horse, the back will be round and the neck and head will follow suit and come down into independent balance.

Only when I a horse was working consistently (not necessarily consistent in frame as that takes much more time and strength) in the balance of not hollowing the back...would I begin to bring back jumping and I would start with poles, then poles to a single, then bounce, then start grid work. But I would do that over a period of months, not weeks.

Hope that all makes sense.
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That makes a LOT of sense to me especially after having bought a reasonably successful showjumper (previously ridden in draw reins) and discovering a complete imbalance of the muscles required to work "properly" through her back. Finally after a LOT of physio, hacking, road work and general strength building and a year later we have got her working through her back and building the correct muscle without any "gaps" along her topline. Still a long way to go though.
 
almostthere said:
That makes a LOT of sense to me especially after having bought a reasonably successful showjumper (previously ridden in draw reins) and discovering a complete imbalance of the muscles required to work "properly" through her back. Finally after a LOT of physio, hacking, road work and general strength building and a year later we have got her working through her back and building the correct muscle without any "gaps" along her topline. Still a long way to go though.
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I've seen it so often I could cry...and that's not an exaggeration. The draw reins themselves aren't the enemy, but the way they can be used honestly breaks my heart. It's not like beating a horse black and blue on the surface, but actually...it breaks horses. It does usually take 12-18 months for a horse to build the correct muscling to the point of being able to give consistency and be truly balanced. It's worse than achieving it in a newly backed horse because there is a lot more work to be done.

Your post makes me so happy though. Well done you xx
 
_GG_ said:
I've seen it so often I could cry...and that's not an exaggeration. The draw reins themselves aren't the enemy, but the way they can be used honestly breaks my heart. It's not like beating a horse black and blue on the surface, but actually...it breaks horses. It does usually take 12-18 months for a horse to build the correct muscling to the point of being able to give consistency and be truly balanced. It's worse than achieving it in a newly backed horse because there is a lot more work to be done.

Your post makes me so happy though. Well done you xx
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Ahh that's kind but I won't lie I was naïve and had no idea how much re-training would actually be involved. However, I have learned so much along the way and she is totally worth it. And yes - like you said above the physio thought that if I hadn't bought her she was prob v close to breaking :(. Physio/vet/trainers have all commented on how much harder it is to re-train muscles on an older horse than to train for the first time the muscles of a newly backed horse. What struck me is how a horse like her can be so "athletic" in that she was jumping well but not athletic at all in terms of using herself. They really do put up with a lot...
 
The reason it is safer to jump in a market harborough is that it can't accidentally be let out too loose by the rider so the horse catches a leg (I've seen this happen) nor can it be pulled in too tight if the rider is left behind causing the horse to lose balance and possibly fall on landing. Of course a good rider will do neither of those things, but what good rider* would jump in draw reins? It used to be the case, certainly unaffiliated, that market harboroughs were allowed tack for show jumping. I don't know if it still is.


*OP I don't mean you, you are retraining a horse some other fool has spoiled.
 
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cptrayes said:
The reason it is safer to jump in a market harborough is that it can't accidentally be let out too loose by the rider so the horse catches a leg (I've seen this happen) nor can it be pulled in too tight if the rider is left behind causing the horse to lose balance and possibly fall on landing. Of course a good rider will do neither of those things, but what good rider* would jump in draw reins? It used to be the case, certainly unaffiliated, that market harboroughs were allowed tack for show jumping. I don't know if it still is.


*OP I don't mean you, you are retraining a horse some other fool has spoiled.
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You would be surprised at the amount of professional SJ'ers that jump in draw reins. It's BS legal to jump in a market harborough (only with a snaffle), but not draw reins.

I hate both to be honest and can't see either of them ever being needed. All they do is provide a false outline.
 
/\/\
i've been guilty of doing the above in a walk trot test, but my reasoning behind it was it was a very spooky sharp horse who can spin instantly and was nappy. i had used draw reins at the start to teach it to hack safely and avoid the death spins. When i took it to its first dressage test i kept them on temporarily in the warm up to give a bit more control over the spins. Once horse relaxed in the warm up with everyone cantering round it etc, they came off and will hopefully never appear again in its training. I wouldn't normally warm up horses with draw reins! but i made an exception for this one purely because he would have caused carnage in the warmup spinning into everyone!
 
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