Horse jumps better in draw reins than without

ArcticFox said:
I was at a dressage test recently with my 5yo baby horse - it was a walk/trot test where we came 3rd.

a horse in the class (yep the walk trot test) was warmed up in draw reins!!
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Having frequented unaffiliated dressage in the past with my old mare, I found that sadly, unaff dressage judges would score overbent horses that had had their head clearly pulled in via draw reins higher than they would score a horse with a head in front of the verticle. Sad and wrong, but IME very much the case.
 
I know a pro SJ-er who starts her youngsters in headgear (draw reins, sidereins, chambones, it depends on the horse, but always something), rides them in it all the time, even schools them over fences in it. I am always slightly horrified by it all. She has some lovely horses, but no way would I ever buy one from her -- even if i could afford it -- as the retraining would be immense. It is a bit of a shame, as the horses are lovely movers, but while their heads are down, they are never through their backs, and their movement would be that much better if they were.

I am a little of mystified by it all. Do people -- and I am talking about pros here -- just not know how to train a horse to come through and maintain a correct outline? Are they not bothered because it takes too much time to do it correctly?
 
Caol Ila said:
I know a pro SJ-er who starts her youngsters in headgear (draw reins, sidereins, chambones, it depends on the horse, but always something), rides them in it all the time, even schools them over fences in it. I am always slightly horrified by it all. She has some lovely horses, but no way would I ever buy one from her -- even if i could afford it -- as the retraining would be immense. It is a bit of a shame, as the horses are lovely movers, but while their heads are down, they are never through their backs, and their movement would be that much better if they were.

I am a little of mystified by it all. Do people -- and I am talking about pros here -- just not know how to train a horse to come through and maintain a correct outline? Are they not bothered because it takes too much time to do it correctly?
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Time I would say. They supplement their income hugely by bringing young horses on quickly and selling, usually for some commission. The less time they have the horse, the less it costs them, so all the gadgets produce a horse that can go out and do stuff sooner. That's my educated guess anyway. It's just not cost effective to take your time.
 
montanna said:
You would be surprised at the amount of professional SJ'ers that jump in draw reins. It's BS legal to jump in a market harborough (only with a snaffle), but not draw reins.
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True but draw reins are legal in the warmup and it is here they are commonly used by the pro's.
Horse will normally warm up with draw reins which are used to really compact the horse and its canter allowing the rider to drop it deep in to the warm up fences. Net affect is the horse has to really spring off the ground to leave the fence up. Once achieved the draw reins are removed for rest of warmup.
 
yes draw reins are very good for this :)
paddi22 said:
/\/\
i've been guilty of doing the above in a walk trot test, but my reasoning behind it was it was a very spooky sharp horse who can spin instantly and was nappy. i had used draw reins at the start to teach it to hack safely and avoid the death spins. When i took it to its first dressage test i kept them on temporarily in the warm up to give a bit more control over the spins. Once horse relaxed in the warm up with everyone cantering round it etc, they came off and will hopefully never appear again in its training. I wouldn't normally warm up horses with draw reins! but i made an exception for this one purely because he would have caused carnage in the warmup spinning into everyone!
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Yeah I've worked for some "professional" people and it's the same at every yard.
Caol Ila said:
I know a pro SJ-er who starts her youngsters in headgear (draw reins, sidereins, chambones, it depends on the horse, but always something), rides them in it all the time, even schools them over fences in it. I am always slightly horrified by it all. She has some lovely horses, but no way would I ever buy one from her -- even if i could afford it -- as the retraining would be immense. It is a bit of a shame, as the horses are lovely movers, but while their heads are down, they are never through their backs, and their movement would be that much better if they were.

I am a little of mystified by it all. Do people -- and I am talking about pros here -- just not know how to train a horse to come through and maintain a correct outline? Are they not bothered because it takes too much time to do it correctly?
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_GG_ said:
I say this because, I personally find (through many years of rehabbing draw reined horses) that they learn to give at the 3rd vertebra and just bend the neck. This actually encourages a hollowing of the back, which restricts the movement of the hind legs under the horse, so a horse eventually builds muscle to support it in this way of (incorrect) going. Then, when you take the draw reins off, the horse will struggle to find that place for itself and remain in balance. Correct balance is created by a correct movement and build up of strength, but when muscles have developed to support a hollow back, the horse will not find it easy to balance without the neck being put in the place that allows it to support that way of going (the muscles built from draw rein use).
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Very interesting, and something that took most of last year working on a long rein and using a lot of flexion exercises to encourage self carriage with Cam. I don't know for certain he was ridden in draw reins, but he was in a very fixed outline (which rolled over a few inches behind the poll) and struggled with balance and engagement unless he was held exactly in place. He now sometimes has a bit of a head waggle when we both get a bit tense (eg in tests), but I have to be so careful not to lock my hands too still and remember to ride him forwards from behind as he will just go rigid again.
 
Well I'm not going to state it on a public forum even if I did!! You can go to lots of livery yards and show grounds and see horses be ridden / turned out / lunged etc and not even know the horse's name let alone ownership details!! And they could be in for a client anyway !!!!... I just saw and asked a friend who merely said "apparently it jumps better in draw reins than without"... And seemed like she didn't know either so asked on here !!! Not going to just bowl up to people I don't know and start questioning them on what they do with their horses!!! On a yard where I don't even keep my own horses!!!
ester said:
you know the horse and have seen it jump in a variety of get ups but not who owns it??
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I wasn't asking who owned it, just whether it was the same person - given that you presumably know who the other person is and whether they own said horse or not. Obviously not.

Steady on the ! button you might wear it out :p

Anyhow I agree with _GG_ she is very wise on her stuff :).
 
GSLS said:
Well I'm not going to state it on a public forum even if I did!! You can go to lots of livery yards and show grounds and see horses be ridden / turned out / lunged etc and not even know the horse's name let alone ownership details!! And they could be in for a client anyway !!!!... I just saw and asked a friend who merely said "apparently it jumps better in draw reins than without"... And seemed like she didn't know either so asked on here !!! Not going to just bowl up to people I don't know and start questioning them on what they do with their horses!!! On a yard where I don't even keep my own horses!!!
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Wowsers calm down on the !'s. Bearing in mind you complained on your 'one time/two time changes' thread about people's attitudes on here, you are doing a superb job of jumping down people's throats...
 
I work as an SJ groom and I'm frequently astounded by the way in which draw reins are used. If a horse is having an off day or not listening then it apparently needs its head "strapping" down or it will never learn. It's beyond belief!
I worked for a pro for a while who never used gadgets, apart from occasionally side reins or the pessoa when lunging. The pessoa was always used as loose as possible (normally all the ropes were extended as much as the pessoa allowed) as a means of gently encouraging the horse to round over its back when being lunged. Once this was established, the horse would usually be lunged without the pessoa, only every now and then as a "refresher". I never saw this guy use any gadget more than a running martingale, even on his more difficult horses. And he did have some very tricky ones!
 
ester said:
I wasn't asking who owned it, just whether it was the same person - given that you presumably know who the other person is and whether they own said horse or not. Obviously not.

Steady on the ! button you might wear it out :p

Anyhow I agree with _GG_ she is very wise on her stuff :).
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I'm taking that as a compliment and it may go in my signature....especially coming from you :) xx
 
nikicb said:
Very interesting, and something that took most of last year working on a long rein and using a lot of flexion exercises to encourage self carriage with Cam. I don't know for certain he was ridden in draw reins, but he was in a very fixed outline (which rolled over a few inches behind the poll) and struggled with balance and engagement unless he was held exactly in place. He now sometimes has a bit of a head waggle when we both get a bit tense (eg in tests), but I have to be so careful not to lock my hands too still and remember to ride him forwards from behind as he will just go rigid again.
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Sounds pretty text book draw rein or gadget use to me :)
 
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