Horse Killed on Roads and Complaint about Surrey Police...

jrp204 said:
As an owner we are liable for our animals even if they have been let loose so although this is a rubbish situation it seems unlikely you will be held responsible for any damage. I'm not sure what the police were expected to do, there is a dead animal on the road, getting the vet out isn't going to change the fact it is dead. Leaving it on the road is not an option and I'm not sure how else they could have moved it. I agree there is miscommunication between who the theft was reported to and the attending officers.
Click to expand...

agree with this, whilst it is awful to lose a horse in this way i do think people have very unrealistic ideas about police and how they deal with things. my son went missing last year, he decided to get on a train with a girl he'd met from Kent, we reported him missing as soon as we worked out what was going on, they took all the details by phone but it took over an hour for someone to come round and talk to us , and because he was 14 he was not considered to be high risk so although we thought they should be out there looking from one end of the country to the other for him, it just doesn't happen that way. Although to us our horses may be precious, to the police they are not high priority, they are overstretched as it is due to cost cuts by our 'wonderful' govt!
 
The big problem is that the knacker destroyed the carcass before reasonable attempts had been made to identify the owner.

A phone call to horsewatch is not too much to ask.

There are several reasons this is a problem. The driver will not be able to claim compensation, the car insurer will not be able to recover their outlay (so no claims will be lost), the owner will not be able to claim on their horse insurance and if a theft was committed then evidence haa been destroyed.
 
The horse was the owners property no matter what its condition. Surely the owner should have the final decision as to what happens to it, whether it is dead or alive.
I'm sure if it was a bicycle they had found every attempt would have been made to reunite it with its owner.
 
But a bicycle won't rot at the side of the road while the owners are found. TBH a bike may well end up in a lost property auction.

Its a really sad one this, but its really hard to say what the alternatives are. There is obviously a lack of communication and respect to the horse's owner, and the points Kat brings up above are food for thought too.
 
If a bicycle has been run over by a car I am pretty sure they would just have taken it to the tip/reported to the council to collect as it won't a) cause distress to passers by or b) encourage other animals onto the road to eat it. My one thought is that (having seen pictures) if the horse had been of a different type whether they might have been more inclined to check for a chip as they perhaps presumed he was traveller owned/wouldnt have one. I presume that they/the knackerman will be able to confirm to the owner whether it was her horse having seen it. I am a bit confused why the story seems to have changed from horse being stolen and reported as such then recovered by the police to being reported the day after it was recovered?
 
I feel desperately sorry for the horses owner, it would have been simple to ensure a full 'audit' behind the accident with the use of photos.

A horrible sight i'm sure, but documented proof of the horse, its markings, size etc.

should the slaughter house be equipped to deal with all kinds of micro chips, yes absolutely - and this is where the whole micro-chip/passport side of things becomes a joke in this country...
 
Polos Mum said:
This is actually a very good point, but perhaps it was too late by then. The police have to clear the road as quickly as possible, what were they supposed to do - leave the poor thing by the side of the road (can you imagine the thread about that !!) It isn't the police's job to help the insurance company.

In the fullness of time I'm sure the insurance company will track down the owner -any sensible owner (as this was) would report the horse missing to the police, any non sensible owner probably wouldn't have third party insurance anyway!!
Click to expand...

Some years back I came across an unhandled youngster running about in the rush-hour traffic (150 yards from the local traveller site, draw your own conclusions) and managed to get it safely off the road. A week later it escaped again (fly grazing a grassless field owned by a local industrial body) and sadly this time it was hit by a car. A local vet destroyed it on the side of the road and a week later the body was still there! Someone from a nearby stables at least came out with a tarpaulin to cover it. The police didn't want to know, and oh what a surprise, neither did the owner. Poor baby.
 
surrey police have put a notice up on their FB page,
Surrey Police are carrying out enquiries to determine whether a horse killed after being struck by several vehicles on the A331 at Tongham on Wednesday (February 5) just after 9pm, belonged to a woman who reported her horse stolen the following day.
The road was partially closed until just before 11pm, when the horse’s body was removed and taken away to be incinerated.
A call was received on Friday (February 7), from a woman who had reported her horse stolen the previous day and believed that her horse was the one involved in the collision.

so horse wasn't reported stolen until after the accident, and according to her posts, horse had been seen being loaded into a lorry, not really much of a shock that the police didn't instantly match the 2 incidents together really, especially with the amount of dumped horses at the moment, probably also the reason it wasn't scanned ! Also why is she so sure the horse that was killed is hers if she thought hers had been loaded onto a lorry?
 
Police priority is to clear the road, waiting for & paying for a vet to attend on the vague chance the horse had a microchip would have just added delay, the vet could not remove the carcass, so knacker man would still have had to attend. It does seem horse should have been scanned before cremation, but it is not that common yet for horses to be chipped. It became compulsory only a few years ago. Checked at my yard this morning, 15 horses there & only the 2 year old is chipped.
 
Micro-chipping is a total waste of time at present as there are at least seven different systems in the U.K. (let alone Europe) and most of them do not have a data base on which to record contact details of the horse and owner. The manufacturers of Mirco-chipps do not compel vets to provide them with details of the horse and owner for each chip used so there is no traceability of the chip what-so-ever.

I believe that each horse should be both micro-chipped with a European standardised Micro-Chip and also freezemarked on their shoulder and that there should be one single national data base which contains all their details.. This would make it very much easier to identify the horse and owner in an emergency situation

What is actually required is a national data base for each and every horse in the country so that when an incident of this nature occurs the owner of the horse can be identified and immediately contacted.

All slaughter houses should be compelled to check the horses details and inform the national data base that the horse has been destroyed.
 
lagartijamick said:
The horse was the owners property no matter what its condition. Surely the owner should have the final decision as to what happens to it, whether it is dead or alive.
I'm sure if it was a bicycle they had found every attempt would have been made to reunite it with its owner.
Click to expand...

If it was a motorcycle lying on the side of the road after an RTA the police would call out the local scrapyard / recovery to come and remove it to a place of safety (scrap yard), where it would have stayed waiting for the owner to come and get it. The owner would then be liable for the call out charge by the recoverer and storage charges. The police SHOULD know who they called out to get it and therefore where it was taken. In practice they may not know and the owner's representative has to call round to find out.

Motorcycles of course are easily identifiable by their registration numbers. Horses are not.

And as for the owner having final decision over what happens whether it is dead or alive, surely no-one in their right mind would insist that a critically injured horse is left suffering whilst the owner is found - especially if the owner hasn't yet reported it missing.
 
Devastating for poor Fonz and the owner.

I asked my vet what he would do regarding dead pets/animals being brought into their vet surgery.
He said that there were no rules but the death of a pet would be recorded (so that reception staff could help if there were phone enquiries).
He would keep the body frozen for a week for the owner to collect should an owner is found...this is what he thinks is the morally correct thing to do so that the grieving person/family have a chance to collect or cremate.

The police would not be in a position to easily store a horse but whoever recovers the body should be made to keep it for a week I would say.


So, if a horse is scanned and no microchip is found.... I would assume that the police would be investigating a crime?
If nobody bothers to scan for a chip I would have thought this was very poor practise on behalf of the police?
Whoever came to collect the horse should be scanning (on behalf of the police) so that the police can make certain that there is a passport.

Horse owners are also tax payers and pay for their police force. They are not getting the service they deserve.
 
Richie said:
Devastating for poor Fonz and the owner.

I asked my vet what he would do regarding dead pets/animals being brought into their vet surgery.
He said that there were no rules but the death of a pet would be recorded (so that reception staff could help if there were phone enquiries).
He would keep the body frozen for a week for the owner to collect should an owner is found...this is what he thinks is the morally correct thing to do so that the grieving person/family have a chance to collect or cremate.

The police would not be in a position to easily store a horse but whoever recovers the body should be made to keep it for a week I would say.


So, if a horse is scanned and no microchip is found.... I would assume that the police would be investigating a crime?
If nobody bothers to scan for a chip I would have thought this was very poor practise on behalf of the police?
Whoever came to collect the horse should be scanning (on behalf of the police) so that the police can make certain that there is a passport.

Horse owners are also tax payers and pay for their police force. They are not getting the service they deserve.
Click to expand...

Whilst I have every sympathy for the owner/possible owner and I do think the horse should have been scanned for a chip by some one, are you seriously saying that whoever recovers the body of a horse should have to keep it for a week?

Have you any idea what state the body would be in after a week!

Its common practice for vets to freeze small animals, but seriously where do you think is going to be able to freeze a horse?
 
Richie said:
Devastating for poor Fonz and the owner.

I asked my vet what he would do regarding dead pets/animals being brought into their vet surgery.
He said that there were no rules but the death of a pet would be recorded (so that reception staff could help if there were phone enquiries).
He would keep the body frozen for a week for the owner to collect should an owner is found...this is what he thinks is the morally correct thing to do so that the grieving person/family have a chance to collect or cremate.

The police would not be in a position to easily store a horse but whoever recovers the body should be made to keep it for a week I would say.


So, if a horse is scanned and no microchip is found.... I would assume that the police would be investigating a crime?
If nobody bothers to scan for a chip I would have thought this was very poor practise on behalf of the police?
Whoever came to collect the horse should be scanning (on behalf of the police) so that the police can make certain that there is a passport.

Horse owners are also tax payers and pay for their police force. They are not getting the service they deserve.
Click to expand...

Microchips have only been a requirement in horses born (or first passported) since 2009 so it wouldn't be a breach of the law if it was an older horse. Neither of mine (both 18) have microchips.
 
Richie said:
Devastating for poor Fonz and the owner.

I asked my vet what he would do regarding dead pets/animals being brought into their vet surgery.
He said that there were no rules but the death of a pet would be recorded (so that reception staff could help if there were phone enquiries).
He would keep the body frozen for a week for the owner to collect should an owner is found...this is what he thinks is the morally correct thing to do so that the grieving person/family have a chance to collect or cremate.

The police would not be in a position to easily store a horse but whoever recovers the body should be made to keep it for a week I would say.

it would have to be in a deep freeze, who has those kind of facilities and at whose cost is this going to be?

So, if a horse is scanned and no microchip is found.... I would assume that the police would be investigating a crime?
what crime? only horses born since 2009 have to have a chip, they could report the matter to defra but it is not a police matter

If nobody bothers to scan for a chip I would have thought this was very poor practise on behalf of the police?
police do not carry scanners, there are more than 1 type of chip requiring more than 1 type of scanner.

Whoever came to collect the horse should be scanning (on behalf of the police) so that the police can make certain that there is a passport.
why do the police need to check passport, most wouldn't know one end of a horse from the other let alone be able to check if the passport matched! yes the knackerman should have scanned, that has been a failing on their part.

Horse owners are also tax payers and pay for their police force. They are not getting the service they deserve.
Click to expand...

car drivers and other road users would also have cause to complain if a road was left closed for hours on end while the police ran around checking microchips, passports and trying to find a slaughterman with a large freezer!
 
Firstly, my thoughts go out to Fonz and his owner.

I know these details have been posted here already, but here they are again:

This petition has been set up by Fonz's owner:

Change.org

'Change the law to make it a legal requirement that all lost or found horses are scanned for a microchip, it is the law to have them but not to check them!'

http://www.change.org/petitions/ann...is-the-law-to-have-them-but-not-to-check-them


Ibblebibble - you have taken Richie's suggestions far too literally and re your 4th point - I'm sure if it became a legal requirement then part of the police's procedure would be to ask a recommended vet '(on behalf of the police}' to check a horse's passport against a horse (together with checking for a microchip) and of course not the police themselves. Obviously there are even more problems if the horse does not/has never had a passport, which is of course a legal requirement for all equines in the UK. Surely these checks could be done initially once the animal is moved/taken away and placed in a side area/room at the yard of the slaughterhouse.

What can also be seen is that there are still many failings and loopholes in the passport system (and lack of a central database) and the lack of checks not being made at slaughterhouses regarding passports and microchips when disposing of a horse - surely there should now be far more stringent checks and requirements made by the Government at this end point?
 
w1bbler said:
Horse killed in accident - police can't box it up & drive it in a police car to the vets like they would a dog, knacker man is only logical option.
Police deal with lots of stray horses - can't spend hours checking miles of fencing.
Who would pay for vet to attend & scan the horse - could have just been another abandoned horse.
Stolen report should have been matched with accident report though.
There should be an accident report for the lady to follow up with driver & possible insurance claim (although I appreciate that's unlikely to be much consolation)
Click to expand...

anyone can scan an animal for a chip, vet nurse, rescue, joe blogs-anyone who has a scanner, many people (including myself) would be able to borrow a scanner and attend a call like this to scan an animal for no charge. the police should have scanners and the body should not of gone to slaughter without being scanned first. I do agree checking fields a nd fencing is too much though
 
Ibblebibble wrote:
there are more than 1 type of chip requiring more than 1 type of scanner.

I make a product for a company in Haywards Heath who make micro chips and scanners, they told me 2 years ago that all scanners will pick up all microchips and read them, no matter who made them, they are all made to a certain specification to allow this, it has been like this for years.
 
we use one type of scanner at work and it picks up all the chips, we phone a data base and if it is not theirs they tell us which company the chip was made by and gives us a contact number, we phone them and get owners details
 
twiggy2 said:
we use one type of scanner at work and it picks up all the chips, we phone a data base and if it is not theirs they tell us which company the chip was made by and gives us a contact number, we phone them and get owners details
Click to expand...

yes, the scanners pick up all the chips of any make and I don't know where this myth of one make of chip will only respond to a certain make of scanner comes from ,it is wrong.
 
I can assure you that this is no urban myth. It is a fact that there is not a single type of scanner that will detect all micro-chips.
In addition to this many vets do not provide the manufacturers of the micro-chip with the details of the horse and owner.
In addition some manufacturers do not operate a data base for their micro-chips.
 
OrangePepper said:
I can assure you that this is no urban myth. It is a fact that there is not a single type of scanner that will detect all micro-chips.
In addition to this many vets do not provide the manufacturers of the micro-chip with the details of the horse and owner.
In addition some manufacturers do not operate a data base for their micro-chips.
Click to expand...

Most vets leave the responsibility or registering the owners details with the chip company to the owner, this is because they don't receive ant correspondence to say the registration is complete and therefore cannot check it is all done-some vets do register the chips on line and that way get to print a copy to keep in case there is an issue in the future.
 
OrangePepper said:
In addition to this many vets do not provide the manufacturers of the micro-chip with the details of the horse and owner.
Click to expand...

This is not true, it is up to the owner to send the paperwork, not the vet. I had to send mine, the vet wouldn't take responsibility.
 
By the sounds of it there was no attempt made to scan the horse so stop wining on about different chips and scanners. The system has dropped a ball in the case of this horse and owner, the sooner people admit this the better, I would hate for any horse owner to have gone through this.
The police WILL check fields and fencing as to where the horse could have come from because we are not talking cats and dogs here these are horses and if there is more horses in an unsecured field then it is a human and horse death waiting to happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top