Horse Laying down when panicking

Ginger Bear

Ginger Bear

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Hi all, originally posted something similar about this last year but have further questions. I have a tb gelding, he has a severely scarred mouth, on one side of his mouth (where the bit goes) you can see the tear & scar the rest is inside his mouth (dentist showed me). Dentist & vet reckon a rope has been put in his mouth at some point!!! A year ago when I first moved yard i tacked him up in stable, he went to run out when I opened the door & he tried to barge out, grabbed his reins to pull him back, he panicked, ran backwards, his legs went & he fell on the floor, layed down, ate for a bit & got back up..was fine afterwards.. same thing happened a bit later on when my mum tacked him up so tend to tack him up outside or lead him out with his head collar over his bridle so not to pull on his mouth.. been fine since until tonight..same thing happened except it was outside. I didn't see it but the girls on the yard say its literally like he faints (but without going unconcious..) Is this just a deep seated issue like my dentist & vet have said in the past?? I don't know whether to push for a blood test incase something else is wrong..?? He's so allert, playful, vocal, full of life & in great condition.. I just can't make it out.. am really worried so will be speaking top the vet again tomorrow.. thanks
 
Horses dont do things without a reason and it's more likely to be because of a physical issue he has. You would be doing the right thing by having a vet check him over.
 
Is see your horse a TB. Maybe it is the same with TB as it is with WB's but WB's are prone to collapsing when they get stressed and it is quite common.

I had a WB that got his foot caught in a fence post at chest height with very real danger of imminently breaking his leg. He started to collapse on his back end. Fortunately after five minutes of frantically struggling to get him free he gave a huge pull and pulled the fencing down. Luckily he was alright but had blown his tendon with the exertion of trying to free his foot.

Years later my current horse (WB) badly twisted a shoe in the paddock and was practically none weight bearing as the shoe and nails were pressing into the sole of his foot. It took five of us to try and prise his shoe off and after a while he started staggering backwards and looked like he was going to collapse. Again he came right in the end and my friends managed to pull the shoe off.

Again I had to get the vet out to him as a nail had penetrated his foot. I mentioned to the vet his staggering backwards as if he was going to collapse and the vet said that WB's are prone to collapsing when they get stressed. It is quite a common phenonema with them and their back end always goes.
 
Thanks for your reply.. I googled it late last night & it seems to be the same thing that some horses do in a trailer..I also read about another lady's horse who does exactly the same thing when tied up & panics when she can't get away..it was another tb & her vet found nothing wrong with her...i'm going to call the vet at 9, & apparently he's on our yard today anyway.. it happens literally once in a blue moon but when it does it's scary!
 
I'd guess at a stress responce.

Imagine it was you, you've had something done at some point that caused you huge pain and no one every told you why it was happening. Sometimes something will spark that memory off and the terror at going through that pain again must be tremendous! Thus, same as a person, he collapses. TB's can be so prone to worrying over things at the best of times!
 
sounds like a stress response too. i used to have a welsh sec d ,when anxious her legs would buclkle and wed be on the floor. sounds like your horse has had a traumatic incident and any reminder he associates with it a bit like ptsd.
 
Or some weird trapped-nerve-in-his-neck thing occuring after a sudden sharp movement? Maybe even the 'full tap' as used by Endospink being inadvertently 'engaged'?

Doesn't sound like classic narcolepsy anyway.
 
Poor you, I can imagine it’s quite traumatic to witness that. I used to have a very delicate and very highly strung little show pony, who when he got older developed quite bad arthritis in his knees which pretty much fused. He found having his feet picked out quite uncomfortable but he progressively found the farrier more and more stressful as he got older, until eventually he used to throw himself on the floor practically as soon as he saw the farrier coming even if we stuffed him with bute before hand. To tackle this the farrier started doing him in the stable on a deep bed, so at least when he went down it was nice and comfy and he wasn’t at risk of hurting himself, poor farrier (he was a saint) then used to have to do the pony whilst it was on the floor. We’d then leave him and he’d get up in his own time and he was fine and not stressed at all afterwards. He never got that bad about picking out feet but then we were very swift about it, if he had we’d have had to have him pts as it would not have been fair, as it was we did worry about the falling over for the farrier but the vet seemed happy that his quality of life was otherwise good, as he was fine and perky and happy and even managed the odd skip round the field. This went on for a good couple of years before the pony was eventually pts, as he was a retired companion to another of mine, and aside from this problem he was in good shape and seemed perfectly happy. I think it just hurt to have his feet held up and he couldn’t cope with the discomfort or the stress it caused so he just collapsed, which actually solved the problem anyway cos it meant we could get to his feet and trim them without it hurting him.
 
The vet was at my yard this morning so got my boy checked over anyway just to be sure.. when i explained what happens to the vet, he said that he wanted to check for any trauma to his head & his neck etc.. no issues found.. He then looked in his mouth for any damage in his jaw where the bit sits..again nothing found..no bad reactions when prodding his mouth around. He said he could x-ray to check but said he doubts he'll find anything so it would just be a waste of time & money. He just said to keep an eye on him but it is probably a bad memory trigger. Thanks for all your great replied..helped to put my mind at rest, woke up at 4am worrying!!
 
i wonder if it is an endorphine response? I have known horses that are twitched to occasionally collapse, and as endorphines are released when the horse is in pain or stressed, which seems to be a common denominator in these cases, could that be the answer ?
 
Yeh it would well be the release of endorphines.. either way I'm so chuffed there's nothing seriously wrong.. i can cope with fainting horse!! lol
 
Evelyn said:
I recently watched a program about NArcolepsy - there was a dog on it that when he got excited - like at dinner time he would fall over - maybe you have a narcoleptic horse. There are also goats that when panicked fall over.

Interesting condition.
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Narcolepsy would have been my theory too, we have a narcoleptic horse, it "leaves the room" when stressed/excited amongst other triggers
 
emmyc said:
Narcolepsy would have been my theory too, we have a narcoleptic horse, it "leaves the room" when stressed/excited amongst other triggers
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It is really unusual for a narcoleptic horse to collapse when exited, it is normally only seen when the horse is very relaxed i.e asleep standing. Horses are fitted with a' stay apparatus' which allows them to dose while standing, and for some reason this doesn't work when a horse has narcolepsy which is why they collapse.
 
sizz said:
It is really unusual for a narcoleptic horse to collapse when exited, it is normally only seen when the horse is very relaxed i.e asleep standing. Horses are fitted with a' stay apparatus' which allows them to dose while standing, and for some reason this doesn't work when a horse has narcolepsy which is why they collapse.
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as shown perfectly in the previous reply to mine, just seen the footage !
 
a narcoleptic horse falls a sleep when resting

Horses when stressed can loss Magnesium so you could try a calmer. I would recommend Nupafeed calmer it does nothing to their performance but just balances things out.

Talk to the people at "Nupafeed" they were very helpful when my mare panicked when traveling. She loaded fine and came out of the trailer fine, but just was fretful when traveling.

Nupadeed use a different form of magnesium than other calmers (Others use Mag oxide which horses do not utilize well)
 
OMG..i've just watched the videos on narcolepsy and my boy is nothing like that!! I've never seen anything like that before! He is fully alert & then panics, staggers to stay on his feet & then he layd down..

Also wouldn't a narcoleptic horse struggle to stand while sedated?? He had an operation on his leg a year ago so was sedated quite regularly during this time & has always kept balance.
 
I believe it is a state call 'learned helplessness' by a horse that has usually been so very stressed at some point in its' life that it's nervous system overloads, goes into total submission & collapses to the floor. Subsequent triggers don't need to be as strong. Horses are not the only mammal that can react this way. Could be wrong of course, Vet check would be useful on any animal it occurs with.
 
Does it happen in a headcollar only? If not it seems there is some association with being bridled and tied up together... does he accept contact or allow the bit in his mouth easily?

Could you take it back to riding in a headcollar or similar?

Its very much like a phobia in people - I pass out if someone is sick :giggle:
 
popularfurball said:
Does it happen in a headcollar only? If not it seems there is some association with being bridled and tied up together... does he accept contact or allow the bit in his mouth easily?

Could you take it back to riding in a headcollar or similar?

Its very much like a phobia in people - I pass out if someone is sick :giggle:
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both times it has happened in a bridle only..no problem when being ridden though or in a head collar. And yes he will work easily in an outline, (is in dressage lessons twice per week) on the bit & allows the bit in his mouth easily. It has only happened twice in 2 years & he is ridden 6 days per week so it isn't like he does it everytime he is tacked up.

And thanks for the info on 'learned helplessness' will be researching that one.
 
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