Horse leaning back/ thinking ulcers - 3rd post

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Horsekaren

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Sooo i have finally got blood results, nothing too alarming.
White blood cells slightly high and higher level of alkaline fostfetase. These suggest there is inflammation somewhere.

Options
1- trail steroids and a probiotic balancer
2- scan his abdomen/ colon wall
3- referral and abdomen camera


I asked about ulcers again and was advised if he has them they arnt horrific as they didn't show in the succeed test, so basically means if he has them they are grade 1 -3 i asked about scoping again as this wasn't one of the options provided and was told it depends on how i feel about his behavior.

I was so sure she was going to say scope him as the next step.
i'm not quiet sure how to proceed. Has anyone had similar results?

would you trial steroids and probiotics for a month to see if there is any improvement?
 
Horsekaren said:
Sooo i have finally got blood results, nothing too alarming.
White blood cells slightly high and higher level of alkaline fostfetase. These suggest there is inflammation somewhere.

Options
1- trail steroids and a probiotic balancer
2- scan his abdomen/ colon wall
3- referral and abdomen camera


I asked about ulcers again and was advised if he has them they arnt horrific as they didn't show in the succeed test, so basically means if he has them they are grade 1 -3 i asked about scoping again as this wasn't one of the options provided and was told it depends on how i feel about his behavior.

I was so sure she was going to say scope him as the next step.
i'm not quiet sure how to proceed. Has anyone had similar results?

would you trial steroids and probiotics for a month to see if there is any improvement?
Click to expand...

So why did you think that there was blood present in the Succeed test?

3-Succeed test positive for hind gut bleeding, negative for stomach bleeding waiting for blood results to see if anything shows up. The vet was surprised by the result but from a lot of reading i was convinced! Has any one ever had this issue? and how was it treated? i understand Gastro guard wouldn't be appropriate for the hind gut. - answer - there wasn't one just yet :/

I am confused!
 
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Pearlsacarolsinger said:
So why did you think that there was blood present in the Succeed test?

3-Succeed test positive for hind gut bleeding, negative for stomach bleeding waiting for blood results to see if anything shows up. The vet was surprised by the result but from a lot of reading i was convinced! Has any one ever had this issue? and how was it treated? i understand Gastro guard wouldn't be appropriate for the hind gut. - answer - there wasn't one just yet :/

I am confused!
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I'm confused myself!

I was convinced that he had hind gut ulcers and the succeed test supported this.
i guess this could still be the case and is the reason for the inflammation? in which steroids and Probiotics would be appropriate or do we just go strait for the scan to see if there is something more sinister going on?

What can cause a horses hind gut to be inflamed besides ulcers and the C word?
 
while you are waiting for the next steps / scans etc, why not try protexin. Its a gut balancer, and has worked wonders with two of mine.

Both a bit grumpy, resistant toleg. One very gassy and loose poo. Since being on protexin, no gas / loose poo. Both visibly happier, off the leg forward, jumping /moving better. in short a transformation.

I saw results after a couple of days
 
Are you insured? I would just get him scoped, It really isn't that time consuming and then you will definitely know for sure and then you can start treatment, ulcers get worse very quickly and the worse they get, the more expensive they are to get rid of! Regardless of the grade, some horses do not cope well at all with ulcers or stomach issues and hind gut, a pony on my yard was really struggling and only had couple of grade 1 ulcers and some inflammation, Toby had grade 4 bleeding and was still out competing every other weekend and his only symptom was tail swishing in canter (I do feel terrible for not scoping earlier but he really didn't show any symptoms at all, I just felt he wasn't right coming into winter!)

I would push for a scope - if they push back then change vets, it's your money and your horse at the end of the day! As i said on a previous post, spent the last year and a lot of money learning this the hard way!
 
I think you need to discuss this in detail with your vet.

I have no experience of hindgut ulcers and, in fact, out of all the horses I have had, only one has had suspected gastric ulcers, which I countered with Aloe Vera juice and a diet change, when she came to us. But I do have experience of vets not explaining themselves properly - and that never ends well! Hence I have learned to be very choosy about which vet I use. I understand that your vet is part of an equine practice, so in your place,I would ask to speak to the senior vet.

How old is your horse? Have you had a Cushings test?
 
I'd go with option 2. its the least invasive and steroids can cause laminitis so not to be undertaken lightly. talk to your vet.
 
I think you need to have him scoped - more for your own peace of mind than anything else. I also think you need to have a proper conversation with your vet as she isn't explaining herself very well or you're so stressed when you're talking to her you're not taking it in. I've had this happen to me - half an hour after seeing the vet I'm phoning back with a load of questions I forgot to ask or to clarify things I think I've heard but aren't sure about! Could you make an appointment just to see her - not with the horse so you can talk about things without distractions? Write a list of the questions and if possible, take someone with you who may be able to listen more objectively and maybe jump in with a question that you've not thought of etc. Unfortunately sometimes it's just a case of keeping plugging away until you find the answer.
 
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The Succeed test isn't 100% accurate; it can return false positives and negatives. It is however cheap and not invasive like scoping so is popular and a good starting point.

My horse tested positive for colonic, negative for gastric. However, I had him scoped regardless and he was only grade 1; vet said of no clinical significance and didn't warrant treatment. Again I insisted and he had a course of injectable omneprazole.....within days I could see a change in his behaviour for the better. Not all horses are as stoic as others and whilst some may continue on with a much higher incidence of ulcers, for others grade 1 ulceration will result in behavioural change.
 
called again the vet has recommended the balancer mentioned (thanks Asha)above and steroids for a month.
I am going to go with it and see what happens. if not improvement or nay deterioration in the next month then scans and scoping will be the next move
i know there is a risk with steroids but he had them a little while ago for his cough and was OK so i'm hoping lamintis wont rears its ugly head on top of all of this.

He is 8yo
 
I'm sorry but really you have to find a vet you can trust and have all this discussion with them. None of the people on here have seen the horse, palpated it or checked for various indicators. As helpful as they are all trying to be, they might suggest something that is contra indicated and make matters worse - this is not a matter for a forum of unqualified people, however experienced. For your horse's sake get proper qualified advice - if you don't trust your current vet, find one who you can, ideally an equine practice with specialists
 
I don't understand why your vet wouldn't recommend a scope or treatment if they think there might be grade 1-3 ulcers. A grade 1 ulcer can be painful for a horse and still needs treating. Mine had grade 1 and 3, she nearly flipped us over backwards rearing up so high in moment of pain reaction so a grade 1 ulcer could still make your horse behave the way he does. Ulcers can stop them from wanting to lie down and sleep, graze or eat which could all be the reason for your boy's behaviour. I wouldn't bother spending money on trying other things when you don't know if your horse actually needs it. Supplements etc can take a month or so to kick in, if at all which means continuing to buy them to keep going to see if anything changes. Even then, it's still 1 month + that you'll be blindly treating something that may not be there and your horse will continue to suffer. Trust me, I wish I had done it sooner and I continued to buy different things to help. I wish I had just got the vet to scope to start with and if she didn't have ulcers, I would have continued tests. I'd rather spend the money on the tests than throwing money away with things that may be pointless.
 
Op, it really is time to abandon the forum regardless of how much valid and useful info that people have offered you.

Call your vet practice ask to speak to a senior partner and explain that you are confused, worried and not understanding what is happening with your horse and also explain that you are not fully understanding what your treating vet is doing and saying.

Explain fully, take notes and make decisions with the senior partner. They are professional people who will help you. I have been an owner for 40 years plus, I still do not always understand what the vets say and I am never ashamed or backwards in asking them to explain again.
 
Horsekaren said:
Sooo i have finally got blood results, nothing too alarming.
White blood cells slightly high and higher level of alkaline fostfetase. These suggest there is inflammation somewhere.

Options
1- trail steroids and a probiotic balancer
2- scan his abdomen/ colon wall
3- referral and abdomen camera


I asked about ulcers again and was advised if he has them they arnt horrific as they didn't show in the succeed test, so basically means if he has them they are grade 1 -3 i asked about scoping again as this wasn't one of the options provided and was told it depends on how i feel about his behavior.

I was so sure she was going to say scope him as the next step.
i'm not quiet sure how to proceed. Has anyone had similar results?

would you trial steroids and probiotics for a month to see if there is any improvement?
Click to expand...


If you decide on steroids please discuss with your vet about the Succeed you are giving him, otherwise you will be giving Succeed, steroids and probiotics all in one go. She can then see if this cocktail has any problems associated with it or if the dose should be adjusted

I may have the wrong horse but wasn't he on AB's recently? Wasn't he given a probiotic when prescribed AB's?
 
AdorableAlice said:
Op, it really is time to abandon the forum regardless of how much valid and useful info that people have offered you.

Call your vet practice ask to speak to a senior partner and explain that you are confused, worried and not understanding what is happening with your horse and also explain that you are not fully understanding what your treating vet is doing and saying.

Explain fully, take notes and make decisions with the senior partner. They are professional people who will help you. I have been an owner for 40 years plus, I still do not always understand what the vets say and I am never ashamed or backwards in asking them to explain again.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^
 
he was on AB's and steroids (prescribed by the same vet). i am going to scrap the Succeed and follow the vets advice for now.
i just wish they would be clear about which method is best to proceed, i dont like options i just want to be told.

vet isn't concerned about ulcer in stomach, i dont mean ignoring them but his symptoms and results are leaning more toward inflammation in the hind gut. i suppose i jumped to ulcers as there is soooo much information about it online, i might be banging the wrong drum with the ulcer situation.
Going to follow advise and see how he goes.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Op, it really is time to abandon the forum regardless of how much valid and useful info that people have offered you.

Call your vet practice ask to speak to a senior partner and explain that you are confused, worried and not understanding what is happening with your horse and also explain that you are not fully understanding what your treating vet is doing and saying.

Explain fully, take notes and make decisions with the senior partner. They are professional people who will help you. I have been an owner for 40 years plus, I still do not always understand what the vets say and I am never ashamed or backwards in asking them to explain again.
Click to expand...

I agree with all of this.

And while from your many posts I have some doubts about the veterinary advice you are getting, I have to say that a vet's worst nightmare is a client who posts daily on a horse forum looking for alternative views (of which there have been rather a lot) and then starts self medicating the horse ahead of getting the bloods back.

Seriously OP, if you are not happy with your vet, get another one. I applaud people who ask for advice but not so much at this point when the horse still isn't getting the treatment he probably needs.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but this is becoming a daily slog.
 
Rowreach said:
I agree with all of this.

And while from your many posts I have some doubts about the veterinary advice you are getting, I have to say that a vet's worst nightmare is a client who posts daily on a horse forum looking for alternative views (of which there have been rather a lot) and then starts self medicating the horse ahead of getting the bloods back.

Seriously OP, if you are not happy with your vet, get another one. I applaud people who ask for advice but not so much at this point when the horse still isn't getting the treatment he probably needs.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but this is becoming a daily slog.
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it doesnt sound harsh, i understand, wish i could delete this one.
i have made my decision with the vet and will stop posting about treatment, to my fail i have wasted £100 on a supplement i am not going to use for the moment.

no further comments needed, i know you cant diagnose and fix my horse, im just getting everything in a muddle at the moment. I Trust the vet, they will be back next week and treatment has now begun :)
 
If you aren't going to use the supplement then you could pop it on a local Horsey facebook page, knock a tenner off and you maybe able to sell it.
 
I do agree with AA that it's time to listen to the vet and not the forum but please do let us know the outcome OP, as it will be useful learning for myself and probably some others who have read your threads.
 
LaurenBay said:
If you aren't going to use the supplement then you could pop it on a local Horsey facebook page, knock a tenner off and you maybe able to sell it.
Click to expand...

Or if it is sealed and unopened would the company take it back and refund you, £100 will be so useful for vet bills and the supplement will only become an ornament <I have many useless ornaments in my tack room> :)
 
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