horse living out advice

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SarahRicoh

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Hi guys.

Well i have a 16.2hh italian sports horse gelding. Before i got him he was stabled 24/7 apart from being ridden mon-fri and turned out during day and he hated it. Turned him into a monster :( now iv got him he lives out 24/7 with company and a shelter that can double as a stable.

The grass is pretty sparse atm so hes having about half a bale a day/every other day and hes on happy hoof so he gets vitamins etc.

However hes dropped a little bit of weight(i want him a little bit fat for winter) and every time it rains he covers himself in mud (cold?)

so should i get him onto a more weight gaining food and rug. Rug or feed or anything else or all?

Never had to worry before because had chubby ponies :) if i do start to rug now please can you all give me some advice on roughly how to rug for winter ss ideally i dont want him in like a heavyweight with a duvet and fleece underneath by winter like some people i know :(but then againi want him to be healthy :)

Thankyou *cookies*
 
Firstly i'd rug him, especially if he's not used to being out 24/7 in the winter. If you don't want him being rugged up to the eyeballs at the moment, although he may need it when it gets really cold, just put him in a lw. I'd give him some hard feed, maybe add some high fibre nuts and some corn oil with his happy hoof. Even up his hay a bit, if he's getting through it quickly. Plenty of fibre to warm his belly! I'd try this first before going down the conditioning feeds.

I can generally tell what rugs to use as I know my boys well and can generally guage the weather when I'm out but I think I tend to put a lw on if it's around 15 and windy and wet, if it's under 11, then its a mw and under 5 generally a hw. Although if it's very windy and wet and just feels cold then I do go for the warmer rug! This is for my tb though, the other one's a fattie so only gets a rug when weathers awful!
 
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How often are you riding?
I would up his hay before anything else, if as you say there isnt much grass and hes loosing some weight.
He may well be rolling when it is wet because, it is great fun and he was'nt able to do it before.
Does he apear to be cold? you could put a no fill rug on or a light weight one at night if you are worried or want to keep him clean.
 
When i check him he never seems cold but the temp does drop at night and as he lived in italy til a couple years ago his coat is very fine...

If i do put a lw on him should i leave it on night and day if its wet/windy then take it off when weather improves or only rug at night?

Sorry i get overly worried about rugging as i dont want him to cold but i dont want him too warm either and i have poor common sense to gauge with lol
 
Using my phone now so if doesn't make sense, sorry! If he's not conditioned to our great British weather, I'd put a lw on in day when like this and at night, if he feels to warm take it off. He may even need a mw at night. Has he got much shelter in field?
 
I would rug at night and leave it on during the day if it is wet and cold, if it is a warm day then take rug off.
You will soon get the hang of what your horse is like, dont panic, he wont melt if he gets wet, honest. :D
I onley rug one of mine in the winter at the moment, the Arab, but he onley has one rug, and it either off, or it's on, but then i am a mean person. :D
 
When I said shelter I meant protection, natural shelter, hedges etc or is the field quite open to the elements, also does he use his shelter? Another thing you have to watch is if he gets hid hay or is his field companion dominant and scoffs the lot?!
 
As the others said re his rugging, get a LW on him for now and just play it by ear, if he's cold up it to a MW, maybe with a neck. There is little point feeding the weather.

As for hay, does he eat up? Does he seem hungry? I would certainly be offering a 16.2 a bale a day if he were on my yard if he would eat it. So hard to say, you know him best. I take every day as it comes with horses, and nothing is set in stone, if they are hungry I feed more, if they are fat I feed less. It is awkward when you are feeding two at either end of the scale, the thinner one obviously needs food most and shouldn't be restricted by a fatty, so, as I see it, you have a couple of options:

*muzzle the 'fatty'
*separate them, at least for a few hours so that 'skinny' can tuck in - this would be my choice.


I may feed too much perhaps - we have no grass at all in winter and it is quite cold for months on end so it is all mine get. They live out (some are rugged, some not) and the ones that get small bales get at least one bale a day each (60lb bales) grass or no grass, and they are only 15.2 max.
 
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Thanks guys the field is pretty sheltered as theres big hedges around two sides and i watch them eat dinners etc and there fine.

Theyre brilliant together as they rarely fight and my skinny one is definitely dominant-if anything he chases fatty off hay.

So do you think i should up his feed or up hay and continue on with him on happy hoof or up both?
 
I'd be rugging him - just a l/w, preferably with a neck - you don't want him burning calories just to keep warm. I'd also see if I could get some hard feed in him - Baileys No 1 is good for building up/conditioning without hotting horses up. If he's skinny/losing condition now, he'll need to pile on some pounds (slowly) before winter. Also, if he'll continue to be out all winter, invest in some heavier weight rugs so you can layer later and keep him warm and dry in the worst of the weather.

Lastly, can you give him haylage rather than hay? It's higher in calories.

P
 
I would agree with the other posters and go for ad lib hay.
My horses live out unrugged. When I got my warmblood as a 4 year old he had been rugged,but not stabled(MONSTER!) so the transition to living unrugged was a bit like your transition to living out.
I found the 1st winter quite stressful. He did lose weight. I was sharing a field with a skinflint who thought a slab each of hay was enough,so I ended up feeding someone elses horse,and of course I got loads of negative comments because I was not rugging my horse.
I used to feed warm kwik beet, copra, soya oil, linseed+ balancer,but once they lose weight in winter its really hard to put it back. So as the other posters have said get a light rug on him now......unless you want to join us really barmy 'natural as possible' peeps .

My horses now glow through the winter,in fact this year I need the warmblood to loose more weight through the winter months to stop him getting too fat in summer!
 
SarahRicoh said:
Thats what id like to do is not rug at all but i really dont think he'd cope.... Thanks for all the advice guys. Keep it coming :)
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I think having him out over winter without a rug perhaps needs to be a long-term goal (i.e., next winter when he's acclimated to our fabulous British weather). Reading between the lines, you've got two issues here: your wish to get some condition on him and keep it on over winter; and your desire for him to be either unrugged or as lightly rugged as possible. I personally think you need to be flexible on the latter (at least for this winter) if you want to achieve the former.

The only way I can see of getting condition on him while keeping rugging to a minimum and still having him live out is to get more calories into him, which is why I suggested Baileys No 1. Once he's more accustomed to our horrible climate and has more of a covering on him (and grown more of a coat) you can maybe think about roughing him off (i.e., not rugging him at all) . . . but for this winter, I'd be wanting to a) get more calories down him (hence the Baileys No 4 and possibly haylage) AND keep him warm so that he uses those calories to bulk up rather than keep warm (hence my recco that you stick a lightweight on him, at least at night and when it's particularly wet and windy).

Phew. Hope that made sense.

P
 
Can I recommend the Fal 40g turnout rugs? I think at the moment it's sometimes been a bit too cold for a LW (which will flatten the hair so not help his natural heat retention) but not cold enough for a MW. My Arab was a bit shivery in his LW, although he was nice and dry, but in the 40g rug he was just perfect. They are very useful rugs, breathable so you can put them on a wet horse, and seem to be very weatherproof, so keep my boys warm much further into the winter than you might expect.
 
I would suggest you rug. I have two native and a TB, and the TB does not like the cold and wet and will drop weight like you wouldn't believe if left unrugged. He is currently in a rain sheet overnight and some days depending on weather. He will soon go into a 100g fill full neck overnight. If he is not adequately rugged, the amount he will eat is HUGE!

Your horse will be burnign calories tryign to keep warm and if he has already lost weight, you will be fighting a loosing battle trying to get weight on through the winter.

Also, if you plan to ride 3 or 4 times a week, the rug will at least keep him clean and dry.

I put my TB in his own small paddock with stable/shelter at night so he can have ad lib hay and large feed, away from the fat ponies who would mug him for the food.

I would also give him something other than happy hoof, which is after all designed for fatties.
 
Thanks guys. I agree that unrugged should be a long term goal. I just want him to be healthy and happy :)

just checked his rugs thst he came with and only has one outdoor rug which is prob mw with neck. Il defo be buying a lw asap and il start rugging him and upping his hay/changing feed. For him to live out happily what other rugs/how many should i get?
 
I wouldnt go spending money on lots of different rugs. (see my last post:D)
I know some people change rugs when one gets wet, but i cant see the point in this, after all they are water proof, and if they arent, theres no point in horse wearing it!
My arab wears a mw rug all winter watever the weather, as long as he is dry, he seems warm, plus they have a large round bale between three horses.
 
Sarah, in my opinion the LW rug is the least useful one I have. I normally only use it to have a clean horse to ride. But then, I manage to ride the pony and she's never rugged, so it's hardly essential. I try to only rug when it's needed for warmth, and a LW rug can actually make a horse colder because it flattens the hair.
I agree with Fii that you don't need to keep changing rugs, I can only visit mine once a day so the rug goes on and stays there until I go back. (There are people about, but not really in a situation to have time to do stuff with my horses).
The only thing I'm wary of is over-rugging, because any vet will tell you that it is generally worse for the horse to be too hot than too cold. Which is why I brought the 40g Fals, and in fact they did the job right up until when we started to get the freezing rain and then the snow at the end of last year. Then the MW rugs went on and I never get as far as HW rugs! My rugged horses are a fine Arab and a veteran WelshxArab and they are fine.
I'm sure a lot of people relate how their horse might feel too closely to how we feel the cold. You see the horses stood with their heads down in the field, rugged up to their ears and down to their knees. I'm sure it's too much for many. You put your hand between their legs, or under their "armpits" and if they are warm then they're fine.
 
Have a look at the Robinsons catalogue, even if you dont buy from them, it will give you an idea on whats out there to buy, and it also shows you how to measure for the right fit.
haveing thought about it, i am not even sure wether mine is a lw or mw, as when i buy, i just give the rug a feel to gage wether i think it is suitable or not.
 
It all really depends on your horse. If he's losing condition it's probably because he's cold. At the end if the day he's from Italy so I'm presuming he's used to the heat and not our cold weather (unless he's from the north?). No one can really tell you what to do as we don't know your horse. Some people don't rug and some people do. I have an id x wb who wears a mw max in mid winter, otherwise he's unrugged and he maintains condition. I also have a tb who wears a decent heavyweight all winter and literally would be like a hat rack with anything less!! You need to get a feel for your horse and see what's best for him.
 
Sarah, a Fal rug with 40g fill. I've had a search and they still do them, but sadly I can't find any quite as cheap as the ones I got last year. Ebay can be your friend, but nothing good on there at the moment. Everyone I know who uses them says they seem "warm" for the fill, but they aren't as heavy as a MW rug. They are also breathable and wickable, which means that if you have to rug a wet horse the moisture wicks out and he dries out underneath. (A great feature of many modern rugs of course).
 
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