Horse looks so sad, I think she may trip over her bottom lip! :(

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Jenny Wrenny

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So after living out 24/7 with our cattle, yesterday we eventually got our crew yard finished and fetched the cattle in for the winter at about 4pm. Rather than put Annie in her stable where she can't really see anything, we decided to give her a corner of her own in the crew yard (about 15ft square) so she is next to her beloved cows and has plenty to see and occupy her. In she came into her pen, very happy, ate up and laid down last night and bright and cheery this morning. Rode her this morning, she was a bit unsettled from the change in routine but no problems and then turned her out ON HER OWN!!! Where have her lovely cow friends gone?? Why is she grazing alone?? Typical Annie, never one to cause a fuss, she is stood in the sunshine looking sad and moody with a droopy bottom lip! Took her some hay which she ate for a little while but back to looking sad again. Roll on 4pm when she will get to come back in to her pen next to the cows for the night. Feeling a little sorry for her but she will have to get over it and adjust to the new routine of grazing on her own for the winter! :(
 
I will try and get some photos!

I did wonder about getting a little pony to graze with her over the winter but I don't really want to be doing two (one is soooo easy) and if the pony lives out 24/7 then it could well be the lonely one when Annie is brought in for the night! Also, the great thing about having the cattle as company, I don't have any silly behaviour with another equine kicking off when we go out for exercise/hunting etc. I think she will just have to accept that this is how it is going to be until the spring. Just had a quick peep at her from the kitchen window, she is grazing again but not venturing very far from the house or gate!
 
Jenny Wrenny said:
I will try and get some photos!

I did wonder about getting a little pony to graze with her over the winter but I don't really want to be doing two (one is soooo easy) and if the pony lives out 24/7 then it could well be the lonely one when Annie is brought in for the night! Also, the great thing about having the cattle as company, I don't have any silly behaviour with another equine kicking off when we go out for exercise/hunting etc. I think she will just have to accept that this is how it is going to be until the spring. Just had a quick peep at her from the kitchen window, she is grazing again but not venturing very far from the house or gate!
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To be honest, I think that it is a little selfish to keep a horse alone because it's easy. Sorry to be blunt and I know you obviously love her, but cattle are not a good substitute for equine companionship. If you have a companion, they would need to be in the same routine, so either both out 24/7 or both come in at night. When you buy a horse and are going to keep it at home, then really, you should always factor in for two as they are herd animals. I think it is cruel to keep them on their own. Obviously, many people cannot afford two horses and so other arrangements should be made such as keeping them at livery or getting a livery in for company.
 
I thought a droopy bottom lip was a sign of relaxation. My chaps do it when they've got one back foot at rest, and are having a bit of a doze (or a cuddle from mum!)
 
Jenny Wrenny said:
I will try and get some photos!

I did wonder about getting a little pony to graze with her over the winter but I don't really want to be doing two (one is soooo easy) and if the pony lives out 24/7 then it could well be the lonely one when Annie is brought in for the night! Also, the great thing about having the cattle as company, I don't have any silly behaviour with another equine kicking off when we go out for exercise/hunting etc. I think she will just have to accept that this is how it is going to be until the spring. Just had a quick peep at her from the kitchen window, she is grazing again but not venturing very far from the house or gate!
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I'm sure you could find a charity with two little ones who could live out 24/7. A pair of Shetlands maybe? Charities are really overflowing at the moment and would jump at the chance to give their ponies a good home especially one with all-year turnout. I believe they allow you to return them as soon as your circumstances change, so you wouldn't be taking on such a huge responsibility as if you were buying them.
 
Wagtail said:
To be honest, I think that it is a little selfish to keep a horse alone because it's easy. Sorry to be blunt and I know you obviously love her, but cattle are not a good substitute for equine companionship. If you have a companion, they would need to be in the same routine, so either both out 24/7 or both come in at night. When you buy a horse and are going to keep it at home, then really, you should always factor in for two as they are herd animals. I think it is cruel to keep them on their own. Obviously, many people cannot afford two horses and so other arrangements should be made such as keeping them at livery or getting a livery in for company.
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I agree with Wagtail. When I first got H he was kept on individual turnout and spent the year he was there being flighty and nappy. I assumed that was just his way until we moved to a yard that only did same sex grazing. Suddenly his behaviour changed, I could hack alone without dramas and whilst he'll always be the spooky sort he was a lot less flighty. If I were to keep him at home I would always make sure he had a fellow horse or pony for company as whilst I know some people are happy to keeps theirs alone I really don't think it's fair to expect a herd animal to just accept it's being kept in isolation.
 
Wagtail said:
To be honest, I think that it is a little selfish to keep a horse alone because it's easy. Sorry to be blunt and I know you obviously love her, but cattle are not a good substitute for equine companionship. If you have a companion, they would need to be in the same routine, so either both out 24/7 or both come in at night. When you buy a horse and are going to keep it at home, then really, you should always factor in for two as they are herd animals. I think it is cruel to keep them on their own. Obviously, many people cannot afford two horses and so other arrangements should be made such as keeping them at livery or getting a livery in for company.
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I strongly disagree that cattle are not good companions. Many many horses have individual turnout which, in essence, is what she will have until the spring. She is not alone and nor would I ever expect her to be on our holding alone. For 6-7 hours a day, she will have individual turnout, for the remaining 17/18 hours she will have company. Company is company whether that is equine, cattle, sheep etc. My family have always had horses which have had other livestock as company and all have been perfectly happy without any problems. I think it is generally the people which complicate horses, not horses themselves. If she really does not settle with the individual turnout then a couple of old poines from a charity, as shadeofshyness suggests, to live out for the winter may be the answer but she is an easy straightforward horse (and I don't want to change that) and I'm sure that she will settle in a few days.
 
Jenny Wrenny said:
I strongly disagree that cattle are not good companions. Many many horses have individual turnout which, in essence, is what she will have until the spring. She is not alone and nor would I ever expect her to be on our holding alone. For 6-7 hours a day, she will have individual turnout, for the remaining 17/18 hours she will have company. Company is company whether that is equine, cattle, sheep etc. My family have always had horses which have had other livestock as company and all have been perfectly happy without any problems. I think it is generally the people which complicate horses, not horses themselves. If she really does not settle with the individual turnout then a couple of old poines from a charity, as shadeofshyness suggests, to live out for the winter may be the answer but she is an easy straightforward horse (and I don't want to change that) and I'm sure that she will settle in a few days.
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Yes but with individual turnout they are usually within touching distance or at least within sight of other horses.
 
I agree that some horses will cope with individual turnout and some would even live alone, but horses are herd animals and always prefer to have other equine company, so I do tend to agree with Wagtail as in sheep and cattle are not good replacements for company for horses sorry.
 
My Mum's mare seems quite happy living alone when I took her boyfriend away :p. She rather likes being the centre of attention. We had a number of options lined up if she wasn't happy (all equine and could source one at short notice) but it hasn't been necessary and by having the place to herself she can wander in/out of stable as she likes. It was certainly much easier having her on box rest as the only horse as she didn't see another going out etc. She did quite like the sheep in summer though :D.
 
I have always had my horses on their own although with other horses in sight. However, the opportunity came up for me to have a mini 8.5hh pony for my daughter which I snapped up. She has a muzzle on at all times in the field so can go out with my mare, is good company both in the stable and out and costs nothing bar being wormed all year round. Farrier looks at her feet every 5 weeks along with my mare and does them when required. Pony stays in whilst I ride etc and everyone is happy.

Def. worth thinking about!! And pony goes in stable with horse at various times and it is fine. They love being together.
 
Wagtail said:
To be honest, I think that it is a little selfish to keep a horse alone because it's easy. Sorry to be blunt and I know you obviously love her, but cattle are not a good substitute for equine companionship. If you have a companion, they would need to be in the same routine, so either both out 24/7 or both come in at night. When you buy a horse and are going to keep it at home, then really, you should always factor in for two as they are herd animals. I think it is cruel to keep them on their own. Obviously, many people cannot afford two horses and so other arrangements should be made such as keeping them at livery or getting a livery in for company.
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Not selfish at all, i've had horses/ponies and donkeys on their own, and grazing alongside cattle with no other equine in sight! And they were perfectly happy!
So no, not at all selfish. Not everybody has the grazing or can afford two or more horses!!
 
JamOnToast said:
Not selfish at all, i've had horses/ponies and donkeys on their own, and grazing alongside cattle with no other equine in sight! And they were perfectly happy!
So no, not at all selfish. Not everybody has the grazing or can afford two or more horses!!
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Wagtail's point was those that don't have the grazing/can't afford more than one horse have the option of keeping their horses at livery. There should be no reason to keep a horse on it's own out of the sight of others. Grazing alongside cattle is not ideal but at least they have company, the OP's scenario sounded like now the cattle are in the horse is out on her own with nothing in sight.
 
Jenny Wrenny said:
I strongly disagree that cattle are not good companions. Many many horses have individual turnout which, in essence, is what she will have until the spring. She is not alone and nor would I ever expect her to be on our holding alone. For 6-7 hours a day, she will have individual turnout, for the remaining 17/18 hours she will have company. Company is company whether that is equine, cattle, sheep etc. My family have always had horses which have had other livestock as company and all have been perfectly happy without any problems. I think it is generally the people which complicate horses, not horses themselves. If she really does not settle with the individual turnout then a couple of old poines from a charity, as shadeofshyness suggests, to live out for the winter may be the answer but she is an easy straightforward horse (and I don't want to change that) and I'm sure that she will settle in a few days.
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Sorry but you completely misunderstand what individual turnout is. Individual tutnout is where horses have their own seoarate paddock next to other horses.
 
I don't think I am being selfish either! Annie is in the field by herself although she can see part of the crew yard from the field. I'm going to get her in shortly but she is now pressing on with the grazing as normal, hay has all gone and she is at the far end of the field so I think that speaks for itself. I may leave her out for a bit longer. I suppose all horses are different, some needy, some not and if they are happy to be on their own completely or have other livestock for company then all well and good. I would not put her into livery or another yard just for equine company, she has a far better life and lovely surroundings at home with me and I can keep an eye on her at any time of day or night.
 
i know cattle and goats are technically 'company', but i'd never keep a horse on its own with companions like that anymore. there is no substitute for proper horse friends who groom, communicate and play the same way. I had a mini i kept at home with goats for company and it was fine, but now its out with a weanling and its lovely watching them play and groom together. We only got the foal as a temporary rescue but, after seeing how much she enjoys its company, I'd never keep her alone again. I don't notice any difference between 1 and 2 really, especially with a mini, they are very low maintenance.
 
FestiveFuzz said:
Wagtail's point was those that don't have the grazing/can't afford more than one horse have the option of keeping their horses at livery. There should be no reason to keep a horse on it's own out of the sight of others. Grazing alongside cattle is not ideal but at least they have company, the OP's scenario sounded like now the cattle are in the horse is out on her own with nothing in sight.
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Not the case in our case - we have plenty of grazing for more than one, can afford more than one but have a horse that is perfectly happy on her own, nothing in sight apart from the houses that surround her field, in particular for her the one that throws her carrots when he feeds the birds every morning. If a horse is showing absolutely no signs of stress and believe me she has been a stressy mare at times in the past! How can you say it isn't happy.

Fwiw I don't think she would be happy if she hadn't already lived in said field for 10+ years as she has previously tended to look to others to deal with anything scary/take charge for her but she is so settled I think a yard move would wind her up more than being on her own for the last year has.

She also never let him near enough to groom her - just squeal at him!
 
ester said:
Not the case in our case - we have plenty of grazing for more than one, can afford more than one but have a horse that is perfectly happy on her own, nothing in sight apart from the houses that surround her field, in particular for her the one that throws her carrots when he feeds the birds every morning. If a horse is showing absolutely no signs of stress and believe me she has been a stressy mare at times in the past! How can you say it isn't happy.

Fwiw I don't think she would be happy if she hadn't already lived in said field for 10+ years as she has previously tended to look to others to deal with anything scary/take charge for her but she is so settled I think a yard move would wind her up more than being on her own for the last year has.

She also never let him near enough to groom her - just squeal at him!
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And that's absolutely fine, but you haven't started a thread suggesting your horse looks sad now you've taken its company away. Like I said in my original post, for some it will work but my personal preference would be to always keep my horses out with others as nature intended.
 
I think once horses become accustomed to living alone, they often have problems when being reintroduced to other equines. Either being exceptionally clingy or appearing to hate the other horses. This is really a result of psychological damage caused by enforced solitude. You will never see a wild horse willingly shunning the herd. It has been shown that lone horses sleep less than normal horses and their stress levels are generally higher. What we view as being happy and content (because they don't stress) is an animal that has learned that it has no control over its situation and it will either close down and become quietly depressed, or learn to make the most of what it has. When the owner sees the horse it is happy because it is pleased to see the owner and is relaxed and content in their company.

Yes there are worse forms of cruelty than keeping a horse alone, but I stand by my view that it is a selfish thing to do and not in the best interests of the horse. I know that this will offend some, but it is something I feel very strongly about.
 
I think you are rather giving this horse human emotions!!! 'standing in the sun drooping her bottom lip'..... probably resting a hind leg as well?? This is the sign of a happy, relaxed unstressed horse enjoying the warmth on her back!! Unhappy horses don't have droopy bottom lips- they have tight, tense muzzles, and tight wrinkled lips. Learn to recognise horses expressions and don't try to equate them with human ones.
 
She sounds like she's relaxed in her own home. A droopy bottom lip is not a sign of being miserable, like in a human. She's obviously relaxed if she's eating too and she's not pacing the fence or anything. I believe introducing another pony could in fact upset her and make things worse.
 
FestiveFuzz said:
And that's absolutely fine, but you haven't started a thread suggesting your horse looks sad now you've taken its company away. Like I said in my original post, for some it will work but my personal preference would be to always keep my horses out with others as nature intended.
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I read it as the horse looking 'sad' not really meaning that - just asleep and chilling.

I prefer to keep mine with others too, Frank is - and we were quite surprised how well she took to it and have been surprised at how content others seem at being on their own. If she were to give any cause for concern she would have company asap as it is our own land, there is a second stable etc etc. Sleeping definitely never been an issue for her - even less so with free access to her stable (out 24/7 which suits her) to curl up and snooze! She also doesn't appear to hate or cling to other horses when out and about so I don't see a closed down or quietly depressed horse she has always been a bit of a full of life gal! She sticks to her favourite/safe places of the field a bit more without her wingman so I suspect her stress level might be slightly higher than previously but not to a level that would concern and she can roll in peace without Frank telling her to get up it's his turn.

hiho, how can anyone tell that their horse is happy? We can only go off their cues and if they all tell you the horse is content what other conclusion can you come to?
 
A few people being very OTT here! Amazing that people think they can judge the unhappiness of an animal without knowing or seeing it! I have not asked for opinions on whether my horse is happy or not or if cattle are appropriate companions. I do not think I am selfish and I certainly do not think I am cruel. Thank goodness some of you have actually bothered to read the facts of my thread - horse is turned out by herself but able to see her companions, she was stood in the sunshine, a droopy lip, yes she was resting a leg, grazed, ate all of her hay, ventured round the whole field, no mantling up and down, no calling, no galloping about and was not waiting at the gate to come in. Not a stressed horse by any stretch of the imagination and when I check on her from a window of my house, she is unaware that I am doing so! About 6 weeks ago, her previous owner (he also foaled her too) was in the area so popped by and saw Annie, he commented on how well she looked and what a happy character she is and always has been. I would consider that he, more than anyone, knows my mare best and I took his comment as a compliment.
 
I have two that are kept with cattle. One of them would be perfectly happy without her equine friend and just the cows. The other wouldn't. It depends on the individual animal. I've seen them playing with the cattle in the field and grooming between cow/horse too.
 
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