Horse meat and the passport system

[indie999]

Now no passport expert(I just got one when they first came out) but I always believed that the passport was to stop ie medicated horses etc entering the food chain?

Nothing is mentioned in the media or am I wrong in thinking this? The guy on TV was just saying how strict abbatoirs and the LIVESTOCK paperwork etc is?? However I didnt think horses were classed as livestock either?

 

[pinklilly]

It doesn't really work though does it? Mine have had loads of drugs and never had passport checked apart from when he went into vets I had to sign a form saying he was not for human consumption, same as when I sent one for a bone scan.

 

[indie999]

It doesn't really work though does it? Mine have had loads of drugs and never had passport checked apart from when he went into vets I had to sign a form saying he was not for human consumption, same as when I sent one for a bone scan.

Exactly I dont know if the BBC researchers or whoever is publicising this realises the drug implication and the matter of horse passport(or rather the shambles of horse passport system). Be interesting to see how many horses for food chain have a passport and if they are drug tested or not?

 

[Ellemoo]

Im interested in this, having sold a pony whom (as much as i dont want to except it) there is a good chance may have been sold on for meat- i had stated on her passport she was not for human consumption.. nothing stopping new 'owner' from 'losing' original passport and sending them off to meat man

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

Indie this has been on my mind too. According to tonight's TV news, the processing plant in the Republic of Ireland that Tesco's use say they get their burger meat from somewhere in Poland.

Although Poland is notorious for the horse meat trade I'm not convinced this is an entirely correct source.. And this is why....

I can't tell you the whole story in great detail as my friend is still in hiding, but briefly, she lived in the Republic of Ireland and had her horses stolen. Through a tip off she discovered where they were. It was an abbatoir in the Republic, fortunately they were still alive and through a lot of quick thinking she managed to get them back. Before the owner of the abbatoir worked out she was the owner of the horses he showed her his whole set up, apart from the 50 or so horses on the actual premises he has about 300 more being kept on a remote hidden location. He's got everything from shets to TB's. And there is a dodgy vet involved re the passports. To cut a long story short, at the last moment the abbatoir owner worked out she isn't who she said she was and was threatened with guns and followed, she's now had to move herself and her family and change her name as she was scared for her life. There is something very sinister going on over there. My friend reported the whole thing to the Guarda but nothing has been done about it yet.

 

[pinklilly]

I think a replacement passport is automatically 'not for human consumption', but a completely new one wouldn't be.

 

[Queenbee]

Now no passport expert(I just got one when they first came out) but I always believed that the passport was to stop ie medicated horses etc entering the food chain?

Nothing is mentioned in the media or am I wrong in thinking this? The guy on TV was just saying how strict abbatoirs and the LIVESTOCK paperwork etc is?? However I didnt think horses were classed as livestock either?

When it is already stated that one of the abbatiors in question over this whole burger-horse meat fiasco, claimed it didn't even handle horses at that site... just how strict do you think they are going to be checking passports?

If they are smuggling horses in and killing them, they wont be bothering to check on their medication history!

 

[Ditchjumper2]

I am sure that no one who self mediacates their horses would put it on their passport either!

 

[foraday]

The Amersham case was just the tip of the iceberg!

With the triparte agreement in place all that is needed is any passport and technically an export licence to move a horse from Ireland and get to France.

Now what DEFRA refuse to believe and still do is that everyone plays by the rules!

There are many Italian lorries on the Dublin to Holyhead ferries with artics FULL of horses often 2 to a stall. Yes the WADT 2006 states 1 to a stall etc.

Once docked in France there is NOTHING to stop the illegal transporter from carrying on either to the Factory in Belgium or futher a field. No questions asked.

Until the UK actually have the brass ones between their legs and have ALL PORTS with a DEFRA presence so that not only paperwork is checked the lorries etc, certificates etc, and then book on a ferry.

At the moment anyone can book a ferry and say its got horses on-the ferry company does not care if it is legal or not.

Until the system changes and this not only goes for exports but imports too, we are just on the tip of the iceberg before a huge epidemic of a disease from the EU due to again lack of paper work and DEFRA living in fairy land!

One thing if anyone has eaten those wonderful burgers they probably won't need to visit a doctor for a while and have any asprin or paracetamol as they would fail a dope test for bute!

 

[Cortez]

When it is already stated that one of the abbatiors in question over this whole burger-horse meat fiasco, claimed it didn't even handle horses at that site... just how strict do you think they are going to be checking passports?

If they are smuggling horses in and killing them, they wont be bothering to check on their medication history!

Oh for goodness sake! ALL meat slaughtered at a licensed abbatoir has to be inspected by a government vet; if they're smuggling in horses don't you think the vets would notice? (Horses can only be slaughtered at designated slaughter houses; there are two in Ireland.)

 

[glenruby]

Actually there are 5 slaughterhouses licenced to slaughter horses.
Queen bee - what a ridicous statement! Scaremongering at its best. There is no "smuggling" of horses into factories. Only approved factories slighter horses and for the most part tests have been shown that for one if the factories in the spotlight - they'd I not process equids and the DNa was found in the imported binding substance. The other factory in question has not stated whether they sluaghter horses or not.

 

[Irishbabygirl]

I just assumed the horse meat was coming from Europe - that's after all where the cheap meat used in burgers comes from so surely that's where the contamination has taken place, not in Ireland? I'm probably wrong, but that's what I would assume has happened...

 

[PandorasJar]

To answer your last question indie... It's not cut and dry. Horses like most of us keep are not livestock. Horses bred for meat are livestock and fall under same defra rulings. Same I recall with fish. Only two animals I can think of that have this and aren't simply livestock (regardless of pet or not).

 

[Queenbee]

Oh for goodness sake! ALL meat slaughtered at a licensed abbatoir has to be inspected by a government vet; if they're smuggling in horses don't you think the vets would notice? (Horses can only be slaughtered at designated slaughter houses; there are two in Ireland.)

Actually there are 5 slaughterhouses licenced to slaughter horses.
Queen bee - what a ridicous statement! Scaremongering at its best. There is no "smuggling" of horses into factories. Only approved factories slighter horses and for the most part tests have been shown that for one if the factories in the spotlight - they'd I not process equids and the DNa was found in the imported binding substance. The other factory in question has not stated whether they sluaghter horses or not.

Not ridiculous not scaremongoring, it was written on one of the reports that one of the abbatoirs in question that is now being investigated did not slaughter horses, although horse meat is believed to have come from there. If it was an abbatoir that claimed it did not slaughter horses, but did infact slaughter horses would you therefore assume that the slaughtering of those horses was legit? I would seriously doubt that!

I will try and find where I read it and post the quote on here.

 

[Queenbee]

Here it is:

The link: http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0115/horse-meat-beef-burgers.html

The quote:

Mr Coveney said the factory concerned was in Monaghan.
He said he wanted to find out "how on earth" a test result of 29% horsemeat in a beef burger could come from a factory that does not slaughter horses or buy horsemeat.

 

[gadetra]

The horsemeat dod not come from an Irish abbatoir, it came from binders imported to bulk up the meat.

From the article you quoted Queenbee:

"Mr Coveney said it looked like the source of the horsemeat came from additives that had been mostly imported from abroad, and added to beef to bulk up cheaper burgers at the low end of the market."

also:
"He [Mr. Coveney] said the mixed meat products certainly did not come from Irish farmers, adding that whatever had happened did not take place at farm level."


It would be nigh on impossible to 'smuggle' meat into an Irish meat factory. As Cortez said, there is a Dept. ot Agriculture vet present at all times (I know one who does this job), and traceability is very very important and stringently adhered too.

Again, the horse meat came from imported fillers and was not an Irish product!

 

[Queenbee]

The horsemeat dod not come from an Irish abbatoir, it came from binders imported to bulk up the meat.

From the article you quoted Queenbee:

"Mr Coveney said it looked like the source of the horsemeat came from additives that had been mostly imported from abroad, and added to beef to bulk up cheaper burgers at the low end of the market."

also:
"He [Mr. Coveney] said the mixed meat products certainly did not come from Irish farmers, adding that whatever had happened did not take place at farm level."


It would be nigh on impossible to 'smuggle' meat into an Irish meat factory. As Cortez said, there is a Dept. ot Agriculture vet present at all times (I know one who does this job), and traceability is very very important and stringently adhered too.

Again, the horse meat came from imported fillers and was not an Irish product!

At NO POINT did I specify IRISH abbatoirs were 'smuggling in and killing horses' I did say that what every is going on is shady (for want of a better word). Clearly the credibility of the Monaghan abbatoir is in question, if only because it specifies specifically that they don't kill horses there or deal in horse meat, regardless of this there was 29% horse meat found in burgers from there. Now, if an Abbatoir specifies that they do not do horse meat, surely they would have performed the relevant checks with the source company they use... what I am saying is that if that abbatoir did not deal in horse meat or at the very least did deal in horse meat and was passing it off to its clients ie: Monaghan abbatoir as something other than horse meat... well, one can assume that the checks on the animals killed at that site are not what they should be. Who knows, perhaps MA were doing dodgy deals and knew what they were buying in... I have no idea on whether they did or did not know what was in the 'bulk'

The bottom line is, something has gone very wrong here. Horse meat/DNA and Pig were found were they shouldnt be. That is beyond dispute. The reasons, and the culprits will hopefully be identified now that questions are being asked, and changes will be made to policies to try to prevent these things happening. It is all very well to say 'its impossible to do x because the policies and checks are really good and nothing can get by that shouldnt' but the fact is... It did.

I don't 'do' burgers, but if I bought a beef burger, I would not want a beef burger with a side helping of horse and pig. That has happened, and it should not have.

 

[gadetra]

They said the horse content was brought in as fillers to bulk up the burgers, not killed on site.
Shady it may be but there is no way you could bring in and kill a horse at a meat factory. You might be able to bring or buy it in though, which is different.

My Spidey-Green senses were tingling!!!

 

[PandorasJar]

Now no passport expert(I just got one when they first came out) but I always believed that the passport was to stop ie medicated horses etc entering the food chain?

Nothing is mentioned in the media or am I wrong in thinking this? The guy on TV was just saying how strict abbatoirs and the LIVESTOCK paperwork etc is?? However I didnt think horses were classed as livestock either?

The current problem being talked about is bute in the horses system. I have never had a horses passport signed for using bute (one ex liveries still valid for food chain on passport) and quite frequently don't buy for specific horses - but have a stock.
Danilon is equally not allowed in meat horses - yet I have a huge box at home bought mainly for an oldie, but when purchased was just for 'stable stock'.

The problem is the lack of following through with the passports. Unpassported stock is not particularly chased and passports are rarely checked by vets and if they are I've never known one to microchip.

The problem is also that meat is tested after, so meat tested positive for bute, could already be out in the food chain.

 

[Mugs]

BBC:

Horsemeat cancer fears raised by Labour
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21181499

A drug that can potentially cause cancer in humans may have entered the food chain via horses slaughtered in UK abattoirs, Labour claims.

Shadow environment secretary Mary Creagh said "several" UK-slaughtered horses had tested positive for the carcinogen phenylbutazone

So either the box in the passport hadn't been ticket "not for human consumption", or it was ignored at slaughter.