Horse Meat Saga... I am so going to be shot down for saying this...

[MerrySherryRider]

Your dismissive attitude towards my valid points, when you said was I just worried due to the impact of horse meat on my own business, prompted my reply. I found that attitude very rude, I have an opinion on the subject and it is not based on anything but the facts which are:

Most surplus horses are NOT allowed in the food chain.

Properly reared horses WOULD cost the same if not more, as beef to rear.

It would cost me, as a pet owning horse owner, just like the useless passport system has, if more regulations come in.

It will cost me as a tax payer, if more regulations come in.

Livestock have been bred for years to finish quickly and produce a quality carcass. Horses have been bred for every reason except that and horse meat is a byproduct of the horse leisure industry in this country. It would cost billions and billions to change this.

So lets think, horses are now bred as meat animals. They are kept like cattle. They are not pets and are not halter broken. How do you get them in? How do you handle them, put them in a horse crush, would folk be happy with that? How do you trim their feet, lets use a roll over crush for that too. A whole new load of drugs would have to be developed suitable for treating these horses. More testing therefore needing done on horses to find suitable drugs.

Horse temperaments are not conducive to being farmed for meat. Beef and sheep have totally different temperaments (in the main) to horses.

This horse meat has got into the food chain because it is cheap. It is cheap because it is not fit for human consumption. Horse meat which is fit for human consumption, is not cheap.

Good post. Very interesting points.

 

[lhotse]

Your dismissive attitude towards my valid points, when you said was I just worried due to the impact of horse meat on my own business, prompted my reply. I found that attitude very rude, I have an opinion on the subject and it is not based on anything but the facts which are:

Most surplus horses are NOT allowed in the food chain.

Properly reared horses WOULD cost the same if not more, as beef to rear.

It would cost me, as a pet owning horse owner, just like the useless passport system has, if more regulations come in.

It will cost me as a tax payer, if more regulations come in.

Livestock have been bred for years to finish quickly and produce a quality carcass. Horses have been bred for every reason except that and horse meat is a byproduct of the horse leisure industry in this country. It would cost billions and billions to change this.

So lets think, horses are now bred as meat animals. They are kept like cattle. They are not pets and are not halter broken. How do you get them in? How do you handle them, put them in a horse crush, would folk be happy with that? How do you trim their feet, lets use a roll over crush for that too. A whole new load of drugs would have to be developed suitable for treating these horses. More testing therefore needing done on horses to find suitable drugs.

Horse temperaments are not conducive to being farmed for meat. Beef and sheep have totally different temperaments (in the main) to horses.

This horse meat has got into the food chain because it is cheap. It is cheap because it is not fit for human consumption. Horse meat which is fit for human consumption, is not cheap.

Best post on the thread, telling it exactly how it is. Agree totally.
Also, as I was the person who said that people steal meat to fund drug habits, I would also like to point out that there is a food voucher scheme in operation in this country so families on low incomes can buy milk, baby milk and fresh/frozen fruit and veg. It's just a shame that some of them try to buy cider and beer with it instead. There is no excuse for stealing, even the local tramp buys his bread.

 

[Alec Swan]

FfionWinnie,

you've rather repeated many of my previous points, and by and large I'd agree with every point that you've made, except for the fact that horses aren't (or as you've implied, never), been bred or intended for, or are unfit for, human consumption. They have been, and successfully too, and I'd suggest that to imply that they are in any way not for the table, is wrong.

Both of us will have a difficult point to establish, and I accept that there are so many variances and vagaries, that to have clear lines isn't simple, but none the less, there are many horses which provide acceptable meat.

Alec.

 

[FfionWinnie]

FfionWinnie,

you've rather repeated many of my previous points, and by and large I'd agree with every point that you've made, except for the fact that horses aren't (or as you've implied, never), been bred or intended for, or are unfit for, human consumption. They have been, and successfully too, and I'd suggest that to imply that they are in any way not for the table, is wrong.

Both of us will have a difficult point to establish, and I accept that there are so many variances and vagaries, that to have clear lines isn't simple, but none the less, there are many horses which provide acceptable meat.

Alec.

Actually I think I have repeated many of my own previous points made earlier in the thread.

I was of course referring to the modern horse compared to modern beef and sheep, and the infrastructure needed for modern day horse meat production. Those points all referring to the current situation in the UK.

My point about them being unfit for human consumption is completely in regards to medicines used on horses knocking them permanently out the food chain. Bute, pen and strep, probably many others, its not something I have investigated any further than this.

 

[indie999]

Actually people do live in poverty in the UK ... Plenty of statistics on it

You need to go to India and see poverty. Open sewers in Delhi etc etc. They live on the streets. I dont wear this at all. I have worked in hospitals in the East end and its not the same as being starving, poverty. How do you explain the obesity crisis in the uK with those who are so fat on benefits? Please explain that one. People are spoilt.

 

[Queenbee]

Your dismissive attitude towards my valid points, when you said was I just worried due to the impact of horse meat on my own business, prompted my reply. I found that attitude very rude, I have an opinion on the subject and it is not based on anything but the facts which are:

Most surplus horses are NOT allowed in the food chain.

Properly reared horses WOULD cost the same if not more, as beef to rear.

It would cost me, as a pet owning horse owner, just like the useless passport system has, if more regulations come in.

It will cost me as a tax payer, if more regulations come in.

Livestock have been bred for years to finish quickly and produce a quality carcass. Horses have been bred for every reason except that and horse meat is a byproduct of the horse leisure industry in this country. It would cost billions and billions to change this.

So lets think, horses are now bred as meat animals. They are kept like cattle. They are not pets and are not halter broken. How do you get them in? How do you handle them, put them in a horse crush, would folk be happy with that? How do you trim their feet, lets use a roll over crush for that too. A whole new load of drugs would have to be developed suitable for treating these horses. More testing therefore needing done on horses to find suitable drugs.

Horse temperaments are not conducive to being farmed for meat. Beef and sheep have totally different temperaments (in the main) to horses.

This horse meat has got into the food chain because it is cheap. It is cheap because it is not fit for human consumption. Horse meat which is fit for human consumption, is not cheap.

I have not been 'dismissive' I did offer suggestions to issues you hilighted although I did fail to change the font colour of some of these suggestions so they are not easy to see. However, offering alternatives and suggestions is not being dismissive of the issues you outline, neither do I think that you are being dismissive of the other arguments, there are many valid arguments and standpoints on such matters. Neither did I say you were just worried due to the impact of horse meat on my own business. I resent that assumption and if you had read my post correctly you would see that I asked a question, not made a statement... I asked was this the reason for your viewpoint, I did not say this was the reason.

 

[FfionWinnie]

I have not been 'dismissive' I did offer suggestions to issues you hilighted although I did fail to change the font colour of some of these suggestions so they are not easy to see. However, offering alternatives and suggestions is not being dismissive of the issues you outline, neither do I think that you are being dismissive of the other arguments, there are many valid arguments and standpoints on such matters. Neither did I say you were just worried due to the impact of horse meat on my own business. I resent that assumption and if you had read my post correctly you would see that I asked a question, not made a statement... I asked was this the reason for your viewpoint, I did not say this was the reason.

Nor did I say you did

"when you said was I just worried due...."

 

[PandorasJar]

You need to go to India and see poverty. Open sewers in Delhi etc etc. They live on the streets. I dont wear this at all. I have worked in hospitals in the East end and its not the same as being starving, poverty. How do you explain the obesity crisis in the uK with those who are so fat on benefits? Please explain that one. People are spoilt.

How do you explain the billionaires in India?

Just because one, hundred or thousand people are well off, doesn't mean everyone is. There are plenty of homeless people in England and others with homes living in poverty. Just because they are not in Delhi doesn't make their situations, illnesses and deaths any less significant.

 

[Queenbee]

Most surplus horses are NOT allowed in the food chain.

Properly reared horses WOULD cost the same if not more, as beef to rear.

It would cost me, as a pet owning horse owner, just like the useless passport system has, if more regulations come in.

It will cost me as a tax payer, if more regulations come in.

Livestock have been bred for years to finish quickly and produce a quality carcass. Horses have been bred for every reason except that and horse meat is a byproduct of the horse leisure industry in this country. It would cost billions and billions to change this.

So lets think, horses are now bred as meat animals. They are kept like cattle. They are not pets and are not halter broken. How do you get them in? How do you handle them, put them in a horse crush, would folk be happy with that? How do you trim their feet, lets use a roll over crush for that too. A whole new load of drugs would have to be developed suitable for treating these horses. More testing therefore needing done on horses to find suitable drugs.

Horse temperaments are not conducive to being farmed for meat. Beef and sheep have totally different temperaments (in the main) to horses.

This horse meat has got into the food chain because it is cheap. It is cheap because it is not fit for human consumption. Horse meat which is fit for human consumption, is not cheap.

I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from in this post, but as Alec points out (see below) can and have been bred successfully for the meat industry so obviously some of your points are moot. Also, whilst I completely agree with you that the current passport system is a complete farce, I also agree that there is a need for better regulations and for this to be tightened up. As another poster said, this would bring in better regulations and more tractability and accountability and a more stringent breeding policy. I would be happy with this to be inforced within the horse industry even if it cost me additional money towards my horse. (But that is just my feelings on the matter)

FfionWinnie,

you've rather repeated many of my previous points, and by and large I'd agree with every point that you've made, except for the fact that horses aren't (or as you've implied, never), been bred or intended for, or are unfit for, human consumption. They have been, and successfully too, and I'd suggest that to imply that they are in any way not for the table, is wrong.

Both of us will have a difficult point to establish, and I accept that there are so many variances and vagaries, that to have clear lines isn't simple, but none the less, there are many horses which provide acceptable meat.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

......., pen and strep, probably many others, its not something I have investigated any further than this.

Just as well, as pen/strep and others are administered daily, as ABs, and into the meat which we eat. That's DAILY!

I agree with you, and without question, that we have no real idea what we're doing, do we? The problem is that we see the only way to feed ourselves is by the huge combines of Ag Production, when there really's no need. The man who keeps 2 cows and 6 ewes, and the man who grows 2 acres of wheat, and the man who grows 5 acres of spuds and carrots and greens, between them, with the man who keeps a couple of sows, can feed a village of 100 people for a whole year. OK, so the figures may need a bit of adjustment, but you'll see where I'm coming from.

What's to prevent us? Rules, that's what!!

If Society is ever (as the French do ), able to live a more parochial existence, then Society will benefit, I suspect!

Alec.

ETS and as a footnote; OF COURSE I'm not certain that I'm right, but then neither is this ridiculous and worrying system which we have in place, and which we seem to trust, curiously. a.

 

[Queenbee]

Nor did I say you did

"when you said was I just worried due...."

Then I have absolutely no idea why you thought asking a straight forward question was rude.


Anyhow,
As I said, I cant really call it on where my thoughts, beliefs and standpoint do lie on this subject. As I said at the begining, my OP was a 'musing' and nothing more, more of a 'what if' and I have actually enjoyed reading all the views surrounding this and have come across a lot of points that I had never even thought of. I actually neither agree or disagree with you or anyone else on here, other than I do agree with whoever said 'this will only ever remain a musing' lol!