Horse needs a pick me up, supplements?

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jaffa2311

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I own a extreme good doer cob. She was recently weighed and needs to lose 15 kilos at least, I was advised to muzzle her 24/7 ( she used to be muzzled 4/7 days).

She lives out 24/7 during the summer as she prefers being out and I think it's healthier. Although I could bring her in daytime, there's a few lifestyle factors that may mean she'll get stressed (she can't see any horses from her stable, theyd all turn theirs out hours before I got there making her stressed).

She competes 3 times a month and is ridden at least 4 times a week. She is mainly showing, working hunter, Showjumping, forest rides, log canters on farm rides etc etc.

She has become really, really lethargic. Walks at snails pace and really takes a lot to get going. She is normally pretty forward going, and is once I get her going. She is sound.

There isn't a lot of grass in the field, although it still makes her fat. She comes in absolutely ravenous, I give her some hay but if that's not there she will eat all the old straw in her bed! She really is very hungry! ( the nutritionist told me to ignore this, all horses are hungry, apparently). She's been wearing a muzzle for over 5 years and is completely confident in drinking and grazing in it.

I've taken her muzzle off today as I couldn't bear it.


Can anyone recommend a supplement to give her a boost? I don't give her any feed at all but I am willing to buy something just to fill her tummy up.

I'm wondering if she's simply not getting enough food intake to keep her at her best.
I might add she is looking brilliant, healthy skin and beautiful shiny coat. She looks the shiniest of all the horses on my yard! We went showing at the weekend as way by far the most forward going in the class! From an outside perspective nobody would know, but I know her and she's lacking a little ridden sparkle.
 
I had the same problem with my boy last year so I tried Propell Plus which worked wonders. I now feed him A&P Power & Performance instead of the Propell. The only reason is because he doesn't get that fat so needs a feed, I was buying pony nuts plus the Propell so decided to ditch the Propell and just buy a feed instead. This also works well.

I would try her on the Propell instead of a feed because the amount you have to feed to get more energy (mine has a recommend daily feed on 1.5kg of it!) will probably just make her really fat.

Does she get any salt?
 
I give my good doers a low calorie feed balancer such as Baileys Lo Cal. It's got all the vits, mins etc they need.

However, 'lacking sparkle' and being lethargic are sometimes the first indicators of cushings so if your girl doesn't perk up it might be worth asking your vets opinion.
 
I would do a worm egg count and ask a vet to come and take bloods to check what, if anything she is deficient it. Going out and buying supplements on a trial and error basis until you find one that works will cost more than the vet visit anyway.

I do not believe that all horses are healthy. I have a Section C here that was morbidly obese when he arrived. He's still overweight, but nothing like her was and he is out 24/7 without a muzzle. The grass is fine, he has previously had lami, so I was initially very careful, but he's sound as a pound, shows no lami signs and the weight is coming off slowly and surely. The thing is, he does the same as the other 5 horses in that herd...in fact, all 11 horses and ponies here follow the same routine. It's a routine of 2-3 hours grazing while moving around. They literally take three or four mouthfuls, move forward a stride and repeat. They are like a wave across the field if you video and speed it up. They then all come down to the gate mid morning, bunch up so they all flick each other with tails and they snooze for 2-3 hours. They they graze over lunch, have another 2-3 hour snooze in the afternoon, usually lying down and all flat out giving me heart attacks when they all refuse to move and convince me that they are dead.

A few more hours grazing and then for a few hours in the evening, they play. That's at this time of year...they play when it's cooler, in the spring, they played in the afternoon and snoozed in the evening. Play lasts about an hour, just messing about with each other, cantering around, generally being overgrown foals. They'll have a gazillion rolls and graze lightly into the evening. I've filmed them overnight with the wildlife cam and they do the same thing, just longer snoozing, interspersed with 20-40 minute grazing sessions.

It's a very natural way for them to live and I'm not promoting it as the only way to keep a horse, but it has meant that the morbidly obese Welshie is self managing his weight now. They really don't have much grass in that field. It's 5 acres between 6 horses while the hay fields are being baled and resting and he won't go onto those fields. When the big boys move, he'll stay in there and I'll move the little ones and George in with him.

It's a long way of making a point, but I don't think all horses are hungry. It's just not true. If a horse is muzzled a lot, fair enough, but a lot of the time when horses have to be restricted, the appearance of hunger can actually be an attempt to eat more due to a deficiency. Very often it can be as simple as salt...especially at this time of year. That's why I would always recommend bloods being analysed...you need to know what the deficiency is if you want to sort it out and the worm egg count is vital...even if you're on a good worming programme.

From what you've said, even with the muzzle, she still gets to eat enough, so I wouldn't just give a supplement or balancer and hope for the best. I'd want to know what was actually going on. xx
 
_GG_ said:
I would do a worm egg count and ask a vet to come and take bloods to check what, if anything she is deficient it. Going out and buying supplements on a trial and error basis until you find one that works will cost more than the vet visit anyway.

I do not believe that all horses are healthy. I have a Section C here that was morbidly obese when he arrived. He's still overweight, but nothing like her was and he is out 24/7 without a muzzle. The grass is fine, he has previously had lami, so I was initially very careful, but he's sound as a pound, shows no lami signs and the weight is coming off slowly and surely. The thing is, he does the same as the other 5 horses in that herd...in fact, all 11 horses and ponies here follow the same routine. It's a routine of 2-3 hours grazing while moving around. They literally take three or four mouthfuls, move forward a stride and repeat. They are like a wave across the field if you video and speed it up. They then all come down to the gate mid morning, bunch up so they all flick each other with tails and they snooze for 2-3 hours. They they graze over lunch, have another 2-3 hour snooze in the afternoon, usually lying down and all flat out giving me heart attacks when they all refuse to move and convince me that they are dead.

A few more hours grazing and then for a few hours in the evening, they play. That's at this time of year...they play when it's cooler, in the spring, they played in the afternoon and snoozed in the evening. Play lasts about an hour, just messing about with each other, cantering around, generally being overgrown foals. They'll have a gazillion rolls and graze lightly into the evening. I've filmed them overnight with the wildlife cam and they do the same thing, just longer snoozing, interspersed with 20-40 minute grazing sessions.

It's a very natural way for them to live and I'm not promoting it as the only way to keep a horse, but it has meant that the morbidly obese Welshie is self managing his weight now. They really don't have much grass in that field. It's 5 acres between 6 horses while the hay fields are being baled and resting and he won't go onto those fields. When the big boys move, he'll stay in there and I'll move the little ones and George in with him.

It's a long way of making a point, but I don't think all horses are hungry. It's just not true. If a horse is muzzled a lot, fair enough, but a lot of the time when horses have to be restricted, the appearance of hunger can actually be an attempt to eat more due to a deficiency. Very often it can be as simple as salt...especially at this time of year. That's why I would always recommend bloods being analysed...you need to know what the deficiency is if you want to sort it out and the worm egg count is vital...even if you're on a good worming programme.

From what you've said, even with the muzzle, she still gets to eat enough, so I wouldn't just give a supplement or balancer and hope for the best. I'd want to know what was actually going on. xx
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I have to say i 100% agree with you on them living out.

I have 3 natives - a welsh and two shetlands, I am overrun with grass having 8 acres to myself!

They are out 24/7 for the firs time since I've owned them and I was initially very concerned about weight gain. In fact, they are better off than they were in overnight. As you said, they play, they roll, the snooze, they fart, they do whatever they want but are not always grazing! They move around so much more and in a sense eat less because it is there for them to eat all the time, so they don't gorge themselves.

They will all walk over to me when they see me, even though the grass is up to their knees, which they never did before on day only turnout and bare fields.
 
I would give a good balancer like forage plus summer performance , and 150 grammes of linseed daily horses on diets often lack vits and mins and protein because we are restricting them.
For horses in hard work for instance hunters in February who are feeling jaded I have had great results with red cell and propell plus however in your horses cases I think it likely the first approach will work best Fatty was very lethargic ( he went on a over 200 kilo diet when I got him ) until I sussed I needed to up his protein and feed a really good supplement / balancer trial and error brought me to forage plus, he's a different horse now.
He also significantly less greedy on it I think perhaps because he getting everything he needs he does not carve food so much .
 
Apologies if this is repetitive (haven't had time to read the whole thread), but there isn't a lot of point giving her a supplement if you don't what she's deficient in. I'd be checking bloods and perhaps having grazing/soil and forage analyzed - then at least you'd know what (if anything) she is deficient in and whether it's down to grazing and forage or something else.

How old is she? Could she be pre-cushingoid - that could make her lethargic/lacking on sparkle.

Could she just be tired from living out/not settling/sleeping? Do any other horses live out with her? If so, how many and are they turned out with her?

I guess what I'm getting at is that you need to look at her overall management - not just what she eats. There are many factors that could contribute towards lethargy - and you need to consider all of them.

Best of luck with her and please do keep us posted :).

P
 
I would feed her a general balancer, sounds like she is lacking her vits and mins. Mine done the same and I put him back on Bailey's lo-cal, he now is his normal [erky self. Mine is also a good doer. I use baileyas local and hi fi lite to stop him bolting feed.
 
Just a quick update. Thanks for all the replies.

She's 13, so certainly at an 'at risk' age for lami/metabolic things and I am very aware of that. I am managing her the best I can, considering she is currently sound and well. no feeds or cereals, muzzled 24/7 and regular exercise. She has access to a salt lick. She has been seen by a top spec rep, my farrier and a vet in the last 6 months. None of which have told me to change her management.

I am yet to buy anything. My horse has been gagging for the farrier a week before she was due (only 8 weeks, I've not neglected her!). Her feet has really dried in this dry weather. She was due Monday and I had to reschedule due to Masters exams.

The shoes are now completely loose with a nail that had tried to fall out which she has then stood on, so it is stuck there flush with the shoe. Great!

I'm starting to think that this may be the reason for her lack of momentum. Farrier is coming out as an emergency today so will see what she is like post feet.

Oh, and she pissed off across the field instead of being caught several times, and barged out the stable with my non horsey OH and charged off at break neck speed as well. She certainly isn't feeling TOO sorry for herself!
 
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