Horse nervous to mount/ride

paddi22 said:
You seem not keen on getting back xrays or more intensive vet checks done, but the worry is you will spend a fortune on behaviourists and trainers but still not fix the issue because it's a physical one.
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paddi22 - according to the buyer this horse has now had 3 different vets check it out in recent times and they cannot find anything wrong with it. I am pretty sure even 1 out of the 3 would have spotted a physical issue that needs further investigation, ok lets dismiss the dealer's own vet's opinion, but that still leaves two vets that see no physical issue at all. Surely one of them would have spotted a painful back issue at the very least and suggested xrays or some form of further investigation?

I am assuming here that poster's vet has not suggested that and the vet confidently found the horse fit and sound and no point in investigating a horse further if they cannot find any hint of unsoundness or pain? But perhaps we are not being fed the entire story, I don't know but I would be cross if that is the case.
 
there is no way for a vet to look at a horse and see bone spurs, or the extent of kissing spine by just an external check. I'm only saying because when I was much younger I got an exracer who reared and bronked a lot , but two local vets looked and said they'd pass for a vetting at the time, they swore there was no pain and it was a behaviour issue. it was only when a proper equine vet came in he figured out what it was. there is a world of difference between a local vet and a good vet from a proper equine hospital.
 
Mrs Jingle said:
paddi22 - according to the buyer this horse has now had 3 different vets check it out in recent times and they cannot find anything wrong with it. I am pretty sure even 1 out of the 3 would have spotted a physical issue that needs further investigation, ok lets dismiss the dealer's own vet's opinion, but that still leaves two vets that see no physical issue at all. Surely one of them would have spotted a painful back issue at the very least and suggested xrays or some form of further investigation?

I am assuming here that poster's vet has not suggested that and the vet confidently found the horse fit and sound and no point in investigating a horse further if they cannot find any hint of unsoundness or pain? But perhaps we are not being fed the entire story, I don't know but I would be cross if that is the case.
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paddi22 said:
there is no way for a vet to look at a horse and see bone spurs, or the extent of kissing spine by just an external check. I'm only saying because when I was much younger I got an exracer who reared and bronked a lot , but two local vets looked and said they'd pass for a vetting at the time, they swore there was no pain and it was a behaviour issue. it was only when a proper equine vet came in he figured out what it was. there is a world of difference between a local vet and a good vet from a proper equine hospital.
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Thanks both for your replies.
My vet is from a local specialised equine hospital. I am getting a different vet from that practice out who has been there several more years (which may make no difference, however I'd rather have an extra check for the horse's sake). I have read into kissing spine a lot and other back issues which have suggested they can only be picked up on xrays so I may suggest this to them. I know it will be costing more money wise however I'd much rather know what's going on as its obvious something is not right.. As previously stated I just want to do the right thing so hopefully this will help.. Whether its a skeletal problem or just behavior at leased I will know for certain..
 
paddi22 said:
there is a world of difference between a local vet and a good vet from a proper equine hospital.
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Edited to say I have just cross posted with you OP:)

I have obviously assumed that OP is using and equine vet - I have only used an equine vet for equine matters for over 50 years, and I thought everybody did the same? I cannot imagine asking the vet who looks after my dogs for me to ever give an opinion on my horse's wellbeing or possible health issues or unsoundness. My own vet would very quickly pick up any hint of unsoundness with any of my horses or donkeys. They might well need to do further investigations to track down what the problem was, That is reasonable to expect in a case like this

I most definitely would never have entertained the idea of a pre purchase vetting or routine care be done my a local small animal vet! Perhaps OP can tell us are these vettings being done by a vet who specialises in horses or is it a small animal vet? Local vet means nothing - my horse vets on some occasions and some areas I have lived, have been local to me, but my present one has to travel for 1 hour either way to get to me. My vet for the dogs is a 20 minute drive. Just clarifying that one would expect any horse owner to ask an equine vet not a small animal vet.
 
I don’t even mean a small animal vet. In some areas the local vet is cattle/sheep/horses. And they are grand for injections and stuff but any tricky stuff they just don’t have the knowledge or equipment

edited to say, I don’t mean all of them. I know some are great. Just my experience of non specialist vets for horses like this is that there advice was “just whack him out of the bucks,you’re being too soft”
 
paddi22 said:
I don’t even mean a small animal vet. In some areas the local vet is cattle/sheep/horses. And they are grand for injections and stuff but any tricky stuff they just don’t have the knowledge or equipment

edited to say, I don’t mean all of them. I know some are great. Just my experience of non specialist vets for horses like this is that there advice was “just whack him out of the bucks,you’re being too soft”
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This is us, we have vets from a large animal practice who are (mostly) competent at giving an injection, but quite often need help ? and for anything else it’s a two hour trip down the N3 to a vet that knows what they’re doing and has the facilities and equipment to do it.

I’ve persuaded a couple of clients to ignore what the local vet said (being a b*tch/pulled a muscle in the field, were a couple of diagnoses that turned out to be KS, ulcers, chronic ragwort poisoning) and take them to a specialist.

I think if I was the OP I’d be taking the horse to the vet, not getting another one out to peer at the horse at home.
 
Mrs Jingle said:
Edited to say I have just cross posted with you OP:)

I have obviously assumed that OP is using and equine vet - I have only used an equine vet for equine matters for over 50 years, and I thought everybody did the same? I cannot imagine asking the vet who looks after my dogs for me to ever give an opinion on my horse's wellbeing or possible health issues or unsoundness. My own vet would very quickly pick up any hint of unsoundness with any of my horses or donkeys. They might well need to do further investigations to track down what the problem was, That is reasonable to expect in a case like this

I most definitely would never have entertained the idea of a pre purchase vetting or routine care be done my a local small animal vet! Perhaps OP can tell us are these vettings being done by a vet who specialises in horses or is it a small animal vet? Local vet means nothing - my horse vets on some occasions and some areas I have lived, have been local to me, but my present one has to travel for 1 hour either way to get to me. My vet for the dogs is a 20 minute drive. Just clarifying that one would expect any horse owner to ask an equine vet not a small animal vet.
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paddi22 said:
I don’t even mean a small animal vet. In some areas the local vet is cattle/sheep/horses. And they are grand for injections and stuff but any tricky stuff they just don’t have the knowledge or equipment

edited to say, I don’t mean all of them. I know some are great. Just my experience of non specialist vets for horses like this is that there advice was “just whack him out of the bucks,you’re being too soft”
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paddy555 said:
I'm getting a bit lost :) why was he vetted just before the dealer had him? are you in contact with the person who sold him to the dealer and what is their opinion on the mounting?
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I didn't even realize you could have these 'local vets' out for horses? I've always used Equine specialized vets? Just to clarify - I have found previous owner who provided me with a 5 stage vetting certificate done October/November 2020 time, then the dealer had another 5 stage vetting done at his yard just before I bought the horse. Blood work was done for the latest vetting however no xrays so I'd definitely be interested in getting him x-rayed and investigating further..
 
Irishsportgirl said:
- I have found previous owner who provided me with a 5 stage vetting certificate done October/November 2020 time, then the dealer had another 5 stage vetting done at his yard just before I bought the horse. Blood work was done for the latest vetting however no xrays so I'd definitely be interested in getting him x-rayed and investigating further..
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if the previous owner had a 5 stage vetting Oct 2020 then they presumably did that because they were thinking of buying him.
Presumably they bought him. If that is the case how come he was then at the dealers and sold to you within about 3 months or so.
Didn't the previous owner get on with him? Did they have the same problem as you?

You said the dealer told you he was nervous to mount so he did in fact disclose the horse's problem. If the previous owner only had him around 3 months can you trace his history back to the earlier owner?
 
paddy555 said:
if the previous owner had a 5 stage vetting Oct 2020 then they presumably did that because they were thinking of buying him.
Presumably they bought him. If that is the case how come he was then at the dealers and sold to you within about 3 months or so.
Didn't the previous owner get on with him? Did they have the same problem as you?

You said the dealer told you he was nervous to mount so he did in fact disclose the horse's problem. If the previous owner only had him around 3 months can you trace his history back to the earlier owner?
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Yes currently I am looking further into the horse's previous owners and history etc. I have found out that the previous owner has a vetting done so that he could go to the Irish sales, dealer must of then bought the horse from the sales, then sold on to me.. it was indeed disclosed that the horse was 'nervous to mount' however to me it's not just nerves.. he will buck/bronc and try to take off, he becomes quite dangerous.. I was not made aware it was this severe unfortunately..
 
I don't know any dealer who vets a horse they own prior to selling it, unless it's going through a prestige auction.

Why was the horse vetted prior to sale to you, do you know?

I'm afraid to me it smacks of a dealer who knows the horse is wrong, drugs it for the vetting and has no bloods taken, then sells it to the unsuspecting as having a 5 stage recent vetting 'so you don't need to do another'.

Alternatively, it was sold after having a vetting and returned within days as impossible to mount, by someone who didn't bother to run the bloods because the dealer agreed a refund quickly.

I hope I'm wrong about that, but with a declared issue I think you are a bit stuck, and if you aren't stuck, then I can see dealers shutting up shop if they are forced to refund on horses sold with an issue declared.
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Irishsportgirl said:
Yes currently I am looking further into the horse's previous owners and history etc. I have found out that the previous owner has a vetting done so that he could go to the Irish sales, dealer must of then bought the horse from the sales, then sold on to me.. it was indeed disclosed that the horse was 'nervous to mount' however to me it's not just nerves.. he will buck/bronc and try to take off, he becomes quite dangerous.. I was not made aware it was this severe unfortunately..
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Which sales did he go to? You would be able to see what the seller said in the catalogue about the horse.

(and yes in case anyone is wondering, they have to be vetted prior to going to the sales so that explains why the previous owner had one done).

14 yo horses are rarely "nervous to mount" - there must be a cause of that.
 
Rowreach said:
Which sales did he go to? You would be able to see what the seller said in the catalogue about the horse.

(and yes in case anyone is wondering, they have to be vetted prior to going to the sales so that explains why the previous owner had one done).

14 yo horses are rarely "nervous to mount" - there must be a cause of that.
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Thanks or your response . Yes the horses are vetted so that they can go through the sales. It was Gorsebridge Sports Horse sales.. the advert stated 'broken, riding and lunging well over poles, has hacked out on roads'..
 
shortstuff99 said:
Have you searched the dealers name on the facebook dodgy dealer pages? That might be able to give you more info and help.
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yes, no posts on the facebook page, the dealer does have their own facebook page with glowing 5* reviews however sadly I dont seem to have recieved the same service.. Dealer wants literally nothing to do with me or the horse.. I think fair play they did disclose the fact he was 'nervous to mount' however I'd be surprised if this was just nerves.. he becomes quite dangerous
 
Irishsportgirl said:
Thanks or your response . Yes the horses are vetted so that they can go through the sales. It was Gorsebridge Sports Horse sales.. the advert stated 'broken, riding and lunging well over poles, has hacked out on roads'..
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It said that for a 13year old horse?
They use those phrases for 3/4 year old horses. Why for a 13yr old?
 
Irishsportgirl said:
Thanks or your response . Yes the horses are vetted so that they can go through the sales. It was Gorsebridge Sports Horse sales.. the advert stated 'broken, riding and lunging well over poles, has hacked out on roads'..
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But you say there are two vettings, a second one with the vet chosen by the dealer. This isn't normal, why did the dealer re-vet a horse he had for sale, at his own expense, when there was one from Gorsebridge only a couple of weeks older?
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**Thank you everyone for your responses.**
I think this thread has highlighted a lot of issues with the dealer I bought him from and some past things as well..The more I look into things and the horse's background, the more I realize I have made a rather expensive mistake.. I'm just going to focus on loving him and getting him better.. As at this point I feel rather saddened that someone can sell a horse like this, and also that he has clearly been passed around a lot and he needs some love..
 
that description 'broken, riding and lunging well over poles, has hacked out on roads' for a horse that age is very strange. have you gotten any riding history from anyone that's not the dealer?
when we get mystery horses in here you can usually track down info about them because Ireland is tiny. does the passport name appear on any of the SJI, AIRC or EI sites? even if we get a vague location we usually find a farrier or yard that knows the horse and you end up getting the backstory. the horse must have been around for a decade being ridden, so something happened somewhere for it to get messed up.
 
Irishsportgirl said:
As at this point I feel rather saddened that someone can sell a horse like this, and also that he has clearly been passed around a lot and he needs some love..
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that's really lovely

I helped someone with a horse that was impossible to mount. We finally got the solution sorted with feed. Took a while. We started from a large bucket of sugar beet.chaff that took a long time to eat on the ground and massage work on the back by the owner. Then worked up to doing it on a milk crate then a higher barrel, moving up to lying over which you can do but it worked better to include all stages and keep the saddle and bridle well out of the way,, We ended up with saddle on and horse eating out of a bucket on the ground whilst rider got on and concluded with a feed bucket hung over a gate and rider getting on off a drum and then riding off. Rider was then able to get on safely, horse was relaxed and happy and everything was safe. In the end they just got so bored and the rider got on normally..

Not saying it will work for this lad but could be worth a try. I hope it works out for you.
 
paddy555 said:
that's really lovely

I helped someone with a horse that was impossible to mount. We finally got the solution sorted with feed. Took a while. We started from a large bucket of sugar beet.chaff that took a long time to eat on the ground and massage work on the back by the owner. Then worked up to doing it on a milk crate then a higher barrel, moving up to lying over which you can do but it worked better to include all stages and keep the saddle and bridle well out of the way,, We ended up with saddle on and horse eating out of a bucket on the ground whilst rider got on and concluded with a feed bucket hung over a gate and rider getting on off a drum and then riding off. Rider was then able to get on safely, horse was relaxed and happy and everything was safe. In the end they just got so bored and the rider got on normally..

Not saying it will work for this lad but could be worth a try. I hope it works out for you.
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thats really interesting because we do the same here. we have a grass bank about 2 foot high that we line the horse against. I do all the leaning over etc there. if the horse stops eating grass I go back a step. if I slide a leg over bareback and the horse keeps eating grass I know it's safe to sit on. it sounds odd but that grassy bank is actually the handiest tool ever for backing, but you know if they are munching away that they are ok with the process!


edited to say I really agree With your idea of the horse being 'bored' with it. thats our guide for everything. if there's any reaction at all we go back a step.
 
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Irishsportgirl said:
Thanks or your response . Yes the horses are vetted so that they can go through the sales. It was Gorsebridge Sports Horse sales.. the advert stated 'broken, riding and lunging well over poles, has hacked out on roads'..
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To be honest, it's a pretty standard catalogue description you'll see applied to all ages of horse at general sport horse sales at Cavan, Goresbridge, anywhere in Ireland really. But for an older horse you'd want to see a bit more, has hunted, Hunter trialled, done training shows etc. I'm surprised the dealer bought him on that description.

He's lucky to have found you OP. Like Paddi22 says, it's a small island and if you keep digging you will find out his history. Very best of luck with him.
 
My mare could be a bit dicey to mount when I first got her. Like yours she had recently come over from Ireland and was an anxious mess! Had the vet out and he suspected it was due to being in a badly fitting saddle in the past (quite apparent muscular atrophy) and she was anticipating pain. Nine months on she is absolutely fine and you wouldn’t know we ever had a problem.
I had a very good and sympathetic saddle fitter out to start. Then I would warm her back up before tacking up with one of those microwaveable wheat bags. Pop her saddle on then give her a quick 5-10 mins lunge. You could see her expression change as she realised the saddle wasn’t hurting her. At first she was still nervous to get on, but with lots of getting on and off and a bucket load of polos I can mount her anywhere now and not worry.
Really hope yours comes right. It is definitely worth a chat with a vet as quite often there is a physical cause. If mine hadn’t started to improve the next steps would have been x-rays. Good luck!
 
ycbm said:
But you say there are two vettings, a second one with the vet chosen by the dealer. This isn't normal, why did the dealer re-vet a horse he had for sale, at his own expense, when there was one from Gorsebridge only a couple of weeks older?
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I’ve noticed some dealers advertising that now. I think the Irish vetting is becoming worth less and less once they come over here, and it seems to be a marketing thing to be able to write has passed two vets.
 
Michen said:
I’ve noticed some dealers advertising that now. I think the Irish vetting is becoming worth less and less once they come over here, and it seems to be a marketing thing to be able to write has passed two vets.
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I hope people don't fall for it. No blood to test. A vetting by someone whose duty of care is to the bill payer, the seller. I wouldn't trust any vetting that I didn't pay for, unless it was done very recently for another purchaser who dropped out for a reason that didn't worry me.
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ycbm said:
I hope people don't fall for it. No blood to test. A vetting by someone whose duty of care is to the bill payer, the seller. I wouldn't trust any vetting that I didn't pay for, unless it was done very recently for another purchaser who dropped out for a reason that didn't worry me.
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Even if the buyer pays, using a vet local to the seller quite often results in the seller's vet (or one they know well) doing the vetting. Particularly when it's a dealer. And if the buyer isn't present then anything can happen.

The problem with the "snapshot in time" basic non-investigative vetting, is that most things are deniable down the line.
 
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