Horse not suited by yard rules

[AmyMay]

I would much prefer Donovan to be in for a couple of days whilst the fields are waterlogged, for him then to go out with some decent grass, than him being out in the pouring rain, turning the field into a mud bath and having crap grazing for the rest of the summer.

One or two days in won't make any difference to the state of the fields - although I'm sure we've all been in the position where turnout has been restricted for the odd day due to unforseen weather (snow).

But the OP is not talking about one or two days.

 

[Flame_]

I get so sick of reading statements by "experts" about YOs having too many horses on their land etc - these people obviously haven't ever owned and had to maintain a field, and would, no doubt, be the first to complain if their rent went up due to the cost of restoring wrecked fields! To roll, harrow, top, and everything else that wants doing to our fields costs about £1000 a year.. So perhaps that will help you understand..

We have twenty acres for two horses, and sometimes we can't get the horses out! We gave up doing livery as they ruined the fields and it cost way more than DIY made to keep everything nice.. In ice we were worried sick about getting sued (how many threads do you read on here about people wanting to sue over a broken leg or injured horse...) Generally speaking these "staying in" rules are more likely to be imposed due to previous livieries being a pain than greedy YOs..

PMSL. Fields recover and grass grows back. We've got too much grass here, we need sheep and restrictive paddocks to put the horses in or they would be so obese they'd explode. This is because there is more land than is required to keep a couple of horses on. If you have the opposite problem is is because there is too little land to keep horses on, or you are just hopeless at managing it . Plus IMO turnout restrictions at times, keeping as much to a regular routine as possible, are sensible land management, turnout bans are YOs imposing horse abuse. ETA - No that's too harsh, not abuse just unnecessary misery.

 

[benson21]

turnout bans are YOs imposing horse abuse. ETA - No that's too harsh, not abuse just unnecessary misery.

Donovan is in his stable today because it is chucking it down. He has his haynet, water and a small treat ball. He is as happy as pig in s***. Where is the abuse or unnecessary misery in that?

 

[Honey08]

PMSL. Fields recover and grass grows back. We've got too much grass here, we need sheep and restrictive paddocks to put the horses in or they would be so obese they'd explode. This is because there is more land than is required to keep a couple of horses on. If you have the opposite problem is is because there is too little land to keep horses on, or you are just hopeless at managing it . Plus IMO turnout restrictions at times, keeping as much to a regular routine as possible, are sensible land management, turnout bans are YOs imposing horse abuse. ETA - No that's too harsh, not abuse just unnecessary misery.

I would PMSL at you, but that would be rude. Your avatar says you live in Cheshire - one of the best counties for ground in the country. A totally different ballgame from 40 miles up the road in the Pennines... Your post has just totally illustrated what I was getting at - you have no idea what its like to be on wet ground! We've got 20 acres for two horses - obviously we've got to restrict grazing too, but its just too wet. Last week, after the worst of the rain, I put the horses out in the driest field and they both came back with no shoes on.. Due to wet clay. To say someone is hopeless at managing land if they can't get their horses on it is either very rude or shows total ignorance!




Even Chatsworth horse trials have just cancelled due to wet ground...

 

[Littlelegs]

I've always chosen places with plenty of turnout, even if that means sacrificing other stuff. I can except that in weather like we've had recently, some places may be having to restrict turnout when they wouldn't usually, but I still think a small area for them to go in, even if its just for an hour for a roll & some freedom should be available. If no school, I think any yard offering turnout should offer a school size sacrifice plot for each horse to have a quick stretch in.

 

[Honey08]

I've always chosen places with plenty of turnout, even if that means sacrificing other stuff. I can except that in weather like we've had recently, some places may be having to restrict turnout when they wouldn't usually, but I still think a small area for them to go in, even if its just for an hour for a roll & some freedom should be available. If no school, I think any yard offering turnout should offer a school size sacrifice plot for each horse to have a quick stretch in.

There definately should be something for them to have a mad hour in, I agree.

 

[flyingfeet]

It is exceptional weather - I'm on my parents farm, and we cannot poach the fields too much as otherwise we are not complying with the farm policy for our payments

I have trashed one paddock that is not part of this scheme, but with this rain the horses are in pens (fortunately I have massive bull pens), but even so one of my ponies is on strike and refusing to eat much and looking miserable, but its tough!

I do think keeping them off the land during the worse of it really makes a difference to the fields

I don't really think there is such thing as 24/7 turnout unless you like ankle deep mud!

 

[Mince Pie]

My 2 are still on their winter routine as our fields are so bad (we are on clay). My mare is only allowed in 1 field as she is a habitual fence wrecker mad and it hasn't had time to recover from winter. I usually split it in half over the summer but can't as it would poach the ground too much.

 

[Luci07]

Well I am on a livery yard which also has a few grass liveries. We have all been moved over to summer grazing but not made the switch to turning out at night ( except for two horses who need the longer turnout). We have had a couple of days whereby the horses were kept in but my YO really does try to get everything out. Too many fit horses! She does look after the grazing though and actually with all this rain, the winter paddocks have gone a long way to recovering.

The walkway to the fields is another matter and it's becoming a major deal to walk through but you can't have everything!

 

[Wagtail]

Quite frankly then you either live in a very dry area or a textbook! Half the land round here would be classed as unsuitable then, in fact half the UK!!

As I previously said, it costs around £1000 to do all those jobs to keep fields in good condition. A lot of yard owners have already done it when the weather was good, and now it needs doing again. I know that when we were doing DIY, we weren't bottomless pits, and just wouldn't have been able to find that sort of money twice in a season. We always tried to keep a trash field for winter (still do for our own) but again, as I previously said, this spring weather is not normal and people ar having to adjust things. Its just very upsetting, as someone who tried really hard to provide a good DIY, to read the "quite frankly if you can't provide perfection you shouldn't be doing it posts!" when people have clearly no idea how hard and expensive it is to do it!!

Completely agree. I sorted my fields out in March and spent a fortune. There is nothing more I would like to do than get the horses out on it. Instead I have just ordered a further £2400 worth of haylage in a month earlier than I would have needed and two extra loads of bedding. All at a direct cost to my business and not passed on to the liveries. We yard owners do not keep horses off the fields because we are mean. It is for two very important reasons:

1) It is dangerous to turn horses out in slippery conditions. I know to my cost. My mare wrecked her shoulder doing the splits in a slippery field and I will regret turning them out that day for ever, as she will never be ridden again. Twelve years ago my gelding broke his hock, again though slipping in a muddy field and had to be PTS. Four years ago my sister's horse suffered a compound fracture of the hind leg, hooning about in a muddy field and was PTS on the spot.

2) If they go out in these conditions the fields will be trashed and they will have no lovely summer grazing to enjoy.

 

[Wagtail]

PMSL. Fields recover and grass grows back. We've got too much grass here, we need sheep and restrictive paddocks to put the horses in or they would be so obese they'd explode. This is because there is more land than is required to keep a couple of horses on. If you have the opposite problem is is because there is too little land to keep horses on, or you are just hopeless at managing it . Plus IMO turnout restrictions at times, keeping as much to a regular routine as possible, are sensible land management, turnout bans are YOs imposing horse abuse. ETA - No that's too harsh, not abuse just unnecessary misery.

Sorry but you obviously don't know what it is like to live on clay soil! When we arrived here 8 years ago, we had two horses on 8 acres. Yes, there was plenty of grass, but despite rotating the paddocks everyone of them became badly poached. That was when we built the sand turnout (in addition to the arena so the arena was not ruined by turnout). Since then, and after taking on full liveries, we have used it all through the winter unless it is exceptionally dry.

 

[Flame_]

1) It is dangerous to turn horses out in slippery conditions. I know to my cost. My mare wrecked her shoulder doing the splits in a slippery field and I will regret turning them out that day for ever, as she will never be ridden again.

What? No it isn't dangerous to turn out in wet fields, they're horses, lots of them live in fields and don't even have stables, or at least it isn't any more dangerous than turning out in dry fields. Slippery as in sheet ice, the yeah, fair play, but wetness horses can deal with.

2) If they go out in these conditions the fields will be trashed and they will have no lovely summer grazing to enjoy.

Do you not have enough fields that horses can spend half days in a couple of paddocks and roll them, etc at a later date after the horses have moved into the summer fields? Horses manage to go in fields all over the UK all year round and with a bit of effort and brain power the fields and horses survive. Regular safe turnout is the very least I expect from a YO for my livery payments.

 

[benson21]

Do you not have enough fields that horses can spend half days in a couple of paddocks and roll them, etc at a later date after the horses have moved into the summer fields? Horses manage to go in fields all over the UK all year round and with a bit of effort and brain power the fields and horses survive. Regular safe turnout is the very least I expect from a YO for my livery payments.

We certainly dont have enough feilds for different paddocks for different seasons. we make do with what we are lucky enough to have, we all have happy horses at our yard, with happy liveries as far as I know. Not everyone has acres and acres of turnout.

 

[Flame_]

We certainly dont have enough feilds for different paddocks for different seasons. we make do with what we are lucky enough to have, we all have happy horses at our yard, with happy liveries as far as I know. Not everyone has acres and acres of turnout.

Exactly, and if you did have enough paddocks for different seasons then you would have an adequate amount of land for year round turnout with some sensible management in place. If you run a livery yard you need acres and acres of turnout IMO, but I suppose some liveries have lower standards in this respect than I do.

 

[Wagtail]

Do you not have enough fields that horses can spend half days in a couple of paddocks and roll them, etc at a later date after the horses have moved into the summer fields? Horses manage to go in fields all over the UK all year round and with a bit of effort and brain power the fields and horses survive. Regular safe turnout is the very least I expect from a YO for my livery payments.

Yes, but I don't like horses being out in mud. I think it is dangerous and unpleasant. My liveries are of like minds, and the horses are all happy. It is just me and my wallet that isn't, right now.

 

[9tails]

Donovan is in his stable today because it is chucking it down. He has his haynet, water and a small treat ball. He is as happy as pig in s***. Where is the abuse or unnecessary misery in that?

The horse in question is NOT Donovan. The horse is agitated by being in all day and night, some horses act differently to Donovan.

 

[Wagtail]

If you run a livery yard you need acres and acres of turnout IMO, but I suppose some liveries have lower standards in this respect than I do.

I think you live in cloud cookoo land. What about areas where land is at a premium, or areas where no matter how many acres you have per horse, you will get wet and poached paddocks? I actually think that building a dedicated sand turnout so the horses can get out every day of the year and never suffer from mud fever, is pretty high standards. Of course, this would not suit every horse, as some need 24/7 turnout, like the OP's horse. But then they would not come to me in the first place, if they did not like the arrangements.

 

[AmyMay]

If you run a livery yard you need acres and acres of turnout IMO, but I suppose some liveries have lower standards in this respect than I do.

No, you just need the appropriate amount for the horses grazing - plus a little extra.

 

[ladyt25]

Exactly, and if you did have enough paddocks for different seasons then you would have an adequate amount of land for year round turnout with some sensible management in place. If you run a livery yard you need acres and acres of turnout IMO, but I suppose some liveries have lower standards in this respect than I do.

Totally agree with this. I think it's unreasonabled for any yard to enforce that horses have to be in 24/7 because of the 'weather'. Ok, i can understand maybe if really really bad icy conditions (although all ours go out in the day in winter and 3 are out 24/7 365 days a year). If you open a livery yard then surely you HAVE to ensure you have adequate land for the amount of horses you want to provide livery for? I am not on livery, we have 12 acres if hilly/mixed grass pasture with 5 horses on it. The field is split in two and they have a 'winter side' and then spring/summer side. We rotate how long they spend in the fields and even in summer have to electric fence what was the winter field, so it is split in to two as there is too much grass come summer even after it's been 'trashed' over winter

A livery yard opposite us has approx 40 horses and they offer turnout ALL year round and 24/7 in the summer months. They a have numerous paddocks and never seem to have a problem with paddocks being ruined and grass not growing back. It is a working farm as well so cattle and sheep are also rotated on some fields and I imagine a lot of work goes in to upkeep and maintenance btu surely that's what people pay sizeable livery fees for?

Oh, and as far as wet fields being dangerous - noone likes a horse to be injured but sadly they sometimes do, whether on wet ground or not. Our fields are quite hilly and the horses will have some mad runs about and yes I do worry sometimes one is going to get hurt but I can't wrap them up in cotton wool.

 

[xxMozlarxx]

Yes, but I don't like horses being out in mud. I think it is dangerous and unpleasant. My liveries are of like minds, and the horses are all happy. It is just me and my wallet that isn't, right now.

*shoots off to check mine who are out in a field with no stable 24/7 I'll get back to you*

 

[Honey08]

The horse in question is NOT Donovan. The horse is agitated by being in all day and night, some horses act differently to Donovan.

I think she was replying to someone who said it was abuse to keep horses in..

As for Flame, you're living in another planet. We have a winter paddock set aside, its about 2' deep in clay at the moment. When we go down to Somerford we smile at those putting studs on, as what they call mud down there is a dry field to us up here... I would love you to swop fields with me for a year and see how you get on! Perhaps you should go and tell Chatsworth and Badminton that they're not looking after their estates properly if they can't even keep an event going?? Slight tad of sarcasm there... Obviously not worth argueing with someone who can't see the big picture.

 

[ladyt25]

I think she was replying to someone who said it was abuse to keep horses in..

As for Flame, you're living in another planet. We have a winter paddock set aside, its about 2' deep in clay at the moment. When we go down to Somerford we smile at those putting studs on, as what they call mud down there is a dry field to us up here... I would love you to swop fields with me for a year and see how you get on! Perhaps you should go and tell Chatsworth and Badminton that they're not looking after their estates properly if they can't even keep an event going?? Slight tad of sarcasm there... Obviously not worth argueing with someone who can't see the big picture.

I think that's a bit off topic - I don't think Chatsworth and Badminton would be concerned about turning horses out on their vast estates for fear of churning the ground up or injuring themselves. That is about asking horses to jump rather large fences in unsuitable ground - different matter entirely. Horses are turned out at Bramham Estate at the moment and it's pretty wet up here as well!

 

[laura_nash]

The livery yard I am on does keep them in during very wet weather as we have heavy clay and the ground gets destroyed. I'm not happy about it but this yard is the best option in my area. They have been in more days this fortnight than I ever remember before.

My boy is actually pretty good about being in providing he has plenty of hay, nothing like OP's horse, but because YO knows my views when they had to stay in a second day she (unprompted) stuck some electric fencing up and he spent all day on the gravel track to the field. Its always possible to do something to take into account the owners concerns, and if they won't even try then I would leave.

 

[Flame_]

I think you live in cloud cookoo land. What about areas where land is at a premium, or areas where no matter how many acres you have per horse, you will get wet and poached paddocks? I actually think that building a dedicated sand turnout so the horses can get out every day of the year and never suffer from mud fever, is pretty high standards. Of course, this would not suit every horse, as some need 24/7 turnout, like the OP's horse. But then they would not come to me in the first place, if they did not like the arrangements.

Yes, I like your sand turnout arrangement for in particularly wet weather, it's a good way to manage the problems you are faced with. Dry turnout areas are quite rare in the UK, its an unusual thing to do IME. Plus you don't have too many liveries and you go to the trouble of rotating them so they all get a reasonable time out, don't you? I don't live in cloud cuckoo land, I just grew up on yards with way more horses than turnout and have since learned that they should not be put up with.

 

[Spyda]

 

[AshTay]

My 3 are all out 24/7 in (different) herds (have been out all year) and there's a bit of mud in the gateways but not loads and the fields aren't trashed at all and the grass is growing. Am feeling lucky for that given the posts on here.

But I was wondering - regardless of soil type, what sort of turnout policies are on all of your yards? - from what I've seen locally, yards with individual/pairs turnout paddocks are struggling but yards with herd turnout in larger fields are doing fine.

I also think that having horses continually out can be better for fields in the respect that the horses don't hoon around when first turned out in the morning (which is when mud *is* dangerous) and they don't congregate in gateways making them worse at bringing in times.

 

[Honey08]

I think that's a bit off topic - I don't think Chatsworth and Badminton would be concerned about turning horses out on their vast estates for fear of churning the ground up or injuring themselves. That is about asking horses to jump rather large fences in unsuitable ground - different matter entirely. Horses are turned out at Bramham Estate at the moment and it's pretty wet up here as well!

Yes it was off topic - hence the sarcasm comment, but the events are usually cancelled as the traffic churns the fields up and the landowners don't like it, not because the courses are bad.. Even at smaller BE events its the parking and the dressage arenas that are the issues, not the courses. Bramham are saying their fields are doing well - fingers crossed.

 

[ebonyallen]

I would not stay anywhere that did not suit my horse. If YO will not allow you then really you have no option for the well being of your horse and yourself is to look for another yard.

 

[benson21]

The horse in question is NOT Donovan. The horse is agitated by being in all day and night, some horses act differently to Donovan.

Thank you, I am well aware the horse in question is not Donovan. I thought we were all discussing how we deal with the lack of turnout in the bad weather. Obviously I am not able to join in.

 

[Flame_]

Perhaps you should go and tell Chatsworth and Badminton that they're not looking after their estates properly if they can't even keep an event going??

Which has more to do with thousands of vehicles having to drive on to and off the land than horses being in fields. Around those areas there will still be horses in fields.