Horse Obsessively Pacing..

[AmeliaP]

Hi all, I joined just to ask this question because it’s a major issue and we don’t really know what to do.
(Horse in question is a mid-teens, chestnut OTTB gelding, jumper. Raced pretty long, has always been high strung, but not like this)(Harley)
we Have three main pastures: mares, geldings, and a single-horse area in between.
at night three from the mare pasture are in a paddock next to harley and two other geldings.

a little over a week ago, one of the mares left the property (was sold), and she was in heat when she left. her ‘spot’ in the pasture and night paddock was replaced with a brand new gelding who had been in a mixed herd at his old barn, an ottb who gets along great with the mares that he’s with now. When Harley saw him in the paddock next to him he got very stud-like, but nothing crazy or dangerous. He just arched his neck and struck at the fence a little, which is to be expected when a gelding is with the mares.
ever since then though, whenever he is turned out he goes directly to the fence where he can see the mare pasture and just paces. Nonstop. Mostly at the walk but sometimes canter and trot. Whenever a horse is in his way he doesn’t seem to see them and just pushes them out of the way. he’ll take breaks every once in a while, but then goes right back to pacing. He even refuses to come in for his lunch.
yesterday I went to get him to bring him to his nighttime spot (after all the mares and the new gelding were Out Of the neighboring pasture), and he wouldn’t be caught. He would canter AT me when I tried to block his way, would gallop away when I tried to bribe him, wouldn’t respond to anything. It was terrifying to see him up close, as his eyes were fully blank. He looks scared but not in any way I’ve ever seen. Just totally checked out. Eventually a trainer caught him by getting a rope over his neck and being dragged for a little while as she got the halter on.
he also can’t be tied to be blanketed, as he strikes out, spins, and calls. we did it while he ate and just avoided his back end. When I went to feed him and the other boys with him, he aggressively chased the other horses away from their grain, like grabbing and holding on to their blankets. When I finally got the horses in they are scared of him and cower against their shelters while they eat. He does the same thing with hay, and it’s the only time he shows any emotion. For reference he did not used to be the ‘boss’, or food aggressive at all. Even the old boss horse hides at the far end of the paddock now. When he’s not eating, he paces the smaller fence (a lot slower) and watches the mares and new gelding.
his owner lunged him early on, and he just trotted around calling for something, i don’t know how he was for her ride.
he has never had any issues with new horses before for more than a day, nor did him and the mare that left have any connection that we noticed.
we dont really know what to do, as it’s been going on for more than a week and he does not seem to be snapping out of it.

 

[Laurac13]

Hi I would put this post in the main tack room section which has a lot more traffic so hopefully you will get some suggestions

 

[Barton Bounty]

So if I read that right, is he in the single field?

 

[AmeliaP]

So if I read that right, is he in the single field?

no, he is with a lot of other geldings during the day and two others at night

 

[AmeliaP]

Hi I would put this post in the main tack room section which has a lot more traffic so hopefully you will get some suggestions

not sure how to do that

 

[PurBee]

Thinking ‘animalistically’ - harley is used to a mare and gelding separation paddock set-up. Then 1 new gelding has arrived and goes in with the mares - this new gelding has been given priority gelding position in harleys eyes by being put with the mares, and harley cant even check-out the new gelding for introductory sniffs and scuffles, because there’s a empty paddock separating mares and geldings.

So it’s possibly a combo of this new set-up triggering ‘new horse’ introduction anxiety, harley cant get close to the new gelding. Aswell as triggering herd dynamic instincts in him, where all the boys and girls find their mates and place.

It’s interesting to hear this has happened, as we’d likely assume there’s no herd dynamics at play when we separate mares from geldings paddocks - but as these 2 paddocks horses can see each other, despite being separated by 1 empty paddock, there’s still familiarity of each other evidently at play. If not, this dynamic with harley being upset likely wouldnt have occurred. He knows the new gelding is in with the mares…and to him, that’s not fair. This ‘new boy’ has to prove they’re his mares, whereas Harley knows these mares. They’re HIS, in his mind because he knows the mares.
It’s very stallion-like behaviour and i’d be curious if hormone levels are abnormal.

Many yards of mares and geldings are out of eye range, but not all.

The mare that was sold leaving heat scent likely triggered these instincts to be higher too. Hence why Harley is now bullying his gelding mates who he didnt bully before. He’s effectively saying to them, ’im top boy here, not this newbie in with our girls!’
Him harrassing his other boys who he was fine with before, is indicative of his herd rank insecurity, and instinct being driven to reaffirm his rank.

The new gelding would likely have been better being put in the paddock between the 2 groups initially - to say hello to both sides for a week, but even that may have triggered harley, as the new gelding could still get closer to the mares than harley.

Often in groups there’s no ’boss’ position overtly noticeable until there’s a change in dynamics like new horse introductions. We come along and separate mares and geldings thinking we break-up herd dynamic issues, but in scenarios where the both gender can still see and smell each other, there’s likely to be herd dynamics at play, although not overtly noticeable, despite a fence separating them.

Between just my 2 horses, their overt behaviour youd think the gelding was ‘boss’ but thats because the boss mare doesnt need to show any bossy behaviour because she (and he) KNOWS shes boss, and ultimately gets the final say over food, or where to go and graze. She shows bossy behaviour to the gelding only when she absolutely has to…and he immediately complies.
Harley having a go at the other geldings and them cowering is him asserting his position - he evidently is (now)top gelding, as no other gelding is fighting him. He’s doing this behaviour to them, because he can’t express this to the new gelding as he can’t get to the new gelding, winding himself up.
He is used to boys and girls separate.(?) He has noticed a boy in with the girls and he’s offended! He cant exhibit normal herd behaviour to tell the new gelding they’re his girls, so its winding him up to redirect his behaviour at his established geldings.

It would be too dodgy for the new gelding to be removed from the mares, and put in with the geldings/harley, at this point.
It likely would be dodgy to even put the new gelding in the paddock between the mares and geldings at this point too, if harley was striking the fence, but it might be a possibility, as a supervised turn-out, with trainer there.
Harley would get to see the new gelding isnt IN with the mares, is also separate. (Although closer to the mares than harley, so still might bother him)

As Harley has been like this for a week, and not showed any signs of calming down?…because IF he has calmed down a bit, as the days have gone on, i would likely leave it another 3-4 days and see if he calms some more, and gets used to the new dynamic. Eventually they mostly get used to new horses/changes.
But if that’s not happening and he is still as wound-up, and winding-up the other boys, a change in dynamic needs to happen to calm the situation.

I dont know your yard setup but if there was another nearby (even small temporary) grazing space where both the mares and gelding paddocks can see it, but its not directly close fence to either paddock, i’d put the new gelding there. The new gelding can see them and have company, but harley is with his boys and the girls are with the girls. As it used to be. I’d see if that calms harley down.
Harley evidently needs introductions to new field mates, but the gender mixing fried his ‘herd instinct’ brain, coupled with the heat scent of the mare leaving likely tipped him over to that look in his eyes you see.

If the new gelding could be removed to another grazing spot within eyesight, Harley hopefully would calm down. Especially if Harley’s field is ‘closer’ to the mares than the new gelding’s grazing space.
Then , if harley is calm, after a few days the new gelding could be grazing in the paddock between the geldings and mares, so harley can say hello. That would need supervising to see if Harley behaves.
After that, if it all goes well and calms down, i’d put the new gelding in with the boys, than in with the girls.

If the yard has always had girls and boys separate, and harley has been used to this dynamic for years there, then i can understand his behaviour of suddenly a new unknown boy is put in with the girls.

If Harley has been in mixed and separate herds without issues before now, his behaviour is confusing, and i’d be wondering if he’s riggy, due to pituitary issues, and his hormone levels are way-off normal. It wouldnt necessarily be noticed if dynamics stay the same, (altho you did say he’s always been high-strung) and only would come to the fore with some major change. So maybe worth getting a hormone panel drawn-up to see if there’s any weird levels happening?

 

[Starzaan]

It sounds to me like he is stressed by the field setup.

I have known one who paced obsessively, and his was entirely cured by going out into a stable, gelding only herd, with no mares near enough for them to smell.

Harley is probably struggling with the mares being nearby, and the fact that the herd changes at night, reducing so dramatically.

If you can, try and find somewhere he can be in a more stable turnout situation.

 

[AmeliaP]

here, do these help?
to clarify, Harley was completely fine before the new gelding was put into the mares. He has never had issues with new horses being put into the center pasture, or new geldings. That’s part of why we are so confused. He did race pretty late (i want to say 10ish), so we were curious about him being gelded late, or maybe they ‘didn’t get it all out’ in a way (I know thats not the technical term).
harley also continues to pace when everyone is taken out of the mare pasture. We had the new gelding in a pen fairly close to the gelding pasture, but away from the mares, and Harley either didn’t notice or didn’t care.
BO thinks that it’s more related to the leaving of the mare than the gelding, but the mare that left never seemed to show any interest in Harley or vice versus compared to the others.
harley has been at this barn for years, and left for a year in between. It didn’t work out for him at his other barn (not sure why, I think he didn’t get enough turnout), so he came back and was totally fine. He normally is very chill, not bombproof by any means, but not unnecessarily reactive.