Horse opening mouth

[OldieButGoodie]

I have a lovely IDx gelding who just won't settle in the mouth or relax his jaw so its very difficult to get anywhere near a consistent contact with him. He loves to open his mouth or lock onto the bit and lean on the rider so I am constantly asking him not to which can get very tiring. His health back teeth weight saddle fit is all good. When I got him (5 years ago) he wasn't particularly forward going due to being green and then minor health issues got in the way (all coming from him being overweight) but now he is fitter, leaner and practically bursting with health so forwardness / enthusiasm is all there.

After a few years trying different bits / bridles but not really improving anything on the locked jaw/contact issue I recently got a bitting consultant out. She inspected his mouth (also head/neck/back etc) as well as his tack and my riding. She showed me that he has a very crowded mouth - fleshy lips, huge tongue etc. So she adjusted the bridle and after trying several bits on him found one that he appeared more comfortable in. This is a bit very similar to a myler low port comfort but with a loose ring (with lip savers).

So with the new bit working quite well for him I now have to think about the opening mouth issue. I don't like flashes so have tried using various drop nosebands, a micklem (pretty much the same as the drop to be fair), plain nosebands and no noseband. Its clear to me he hates having his mouth enclosed by a strap (although please be aware I don't fit it very tight!) and will fight the strap constantly (he has broken quite a few drop nosebands doing this). But if you use a plain noseband/no noseband, yes, he is more relaxed and initially goes really well, but he then realises he can evade contact by opening his mouth. He then proceeds to pull / lean and it all goes to pot.

Having now tried a few lessons without a drop my instructor now wants me to put the drop back on because him opening his mouth isn't doing me (or him) any favours. She pointed out that he is going forward nicely but when he starts opening his mouth (and then leaning) it will not only make him difficult to ride but will lose marks in my dressage tests!

So... Is there anything else I can try with my horse (that is also dressage legal, even though I only do unaffiliated Prelim)???

 

[Cortez]

Have you tried a Pelham or double bridle? (Yes, I know not for dressage, or Prelim at least, but could be possible for schooling).

 

[eggs]

I have a Dutch wb who also had issues with opening his mouth at lot - some dressage judges would mark him down for it and others wouldn't. He also has a small mouth with big fleshy lips and tongue. I now have him in a Bombers loose ring happy tongue and a Micklem bridle with the noseband done up loosely. He does still open his mouth a little but not nearly as much. The difference though with him and your horse is that he isn't coming against the contact or leaning when he does open his mouth (confirmed by my list 1 dressage judge trainer riding him).

I am not sure exactly what you mean by lip savers but do check the BD rules as they may not be competition legal.

 

[OldieButGoodie]

I have a Dutch wb who also had issues with opening his mouth at lot - some dressage judges would mark him down for it and others wouldn't. He also has a small mouth with big fleshy lips and tongue. I now have him in a Bombers loose ring happy tongue and a Micklem bridle with the noseband done up loosely. He does still open his mouth a little but not nearly as much. The difference though with him and your horse is that he isn't coming against the contact or leaning when he does open his mouth (confirmed by my list 1 dressage judge trainer riding him).

I am not sure exactly what you mean by lip savers but do check the BD rules as they may not be competition legal.

That's good to know I will check! The lip savers are just little sleeves to prevent the loose ring pinching the horse's mouth accidentally. I hope I explained this properly...

I have also tried the Bombers loose ring happy tongue but he found this too easy to grab onto! Sigh...

 

[JillA]

I would be retraining him from the ground. Standing by the side of him hold a rein in each hand and apply a little backwards pressure. Keep a steady light pressure as long as he is resisting, opening his mouth, barging downwards, but the instant he relaxes and gives to it, let the pressure off. Soon he will understand that the response to pressure should be relax and let go, rather than the resistance he is currently displaying

 

[ihatework]

Everything else aside, bitting, training, physical etc - the first thing that springs to mind is to try an elastic grackle

https://www.katenegus.com/product/elasticated-grackle/

 

[OldieButGoodie]

Have you tried a Pelham or double bridle? (Yes, I know not for dressage, or Prelim at least, but could be possible for schooling).

Funnily enough I used a pelham in a riding club showing show recently and he went lovely in it. The bit I used here was a Harmony Doubler Pelham - because he hated anything straight or with a port. I think the curb chain discouraged him from opening his mouth (I had someone video the show and yep it looked like his mouth was closed!). I lost a bit of forwardness but only when I asked for extended canter - all his other paces were lovely.

I'm wanting to put him in a local working hunter show soon just to see how he goes - I take it I can't use the pelham here?

 

[OldieButGoodie]

I would be retraining him from the ground. Standing by the side of him hold a rein in each hand and apply a little backwards pressure. Keep a steady light pressure as long as he is resisting, opening his mouth, barging downwards, but the instant he relaxes and gives to it, let the pressure off. Soon he will understand that the response to pressure should be relax and let go, rather than the resistance he is currently displaying

I will try this thank you! He is a lovely horse and anything that I can do to help him is worth it.

 

[Cortez]

You can use a Pelham for WH, yes. The reason I suggested a curb action bit is that many horses do not appreciate the snaffle and go better with different areas of their mouth being used (which is what a curb-type bit does), and a less constant pressure.

 

[OldieButGoodie]

Everything else aside, bitting, training, physical etc - the first thing that springs to mind is to try an elastic grackle

https://www.katenegus.com/product/elasticated-grackle/

Thank you - I haven't actually tried a grackle yet! Can I double check please this would be dressage legal?

 

[ponyparty]

Hmm interesting. My boy is also very fussy in the mouth, opens his mouth, gurns etc. He doesn't lean though. He is an expert at getting his tongue over the bit. He even manages to open his mouth/gurn with a flash on - to the point that the (elderly and probably a bit short sighted) owner of the place I used to work, when watching me ride once, remarked that he should be in a flash - he already was!

I'm not riding him currently, though will be again soon, but have been working him on the ground. I had to take the noseband off altogether recently as he had a raw patch of skin when another gelding has bitten him over the fence, right where the cavesson sits. He seems better without any noseband at all, but I wouldn't be keen on riding him like that as he gets his tongue over the bit, even with the bit adjusted to higher in his mouth.

I sometimes lunge him just in a rope halter, rather than a bridle, and he seems so much more relaxed. When I'm back in the saddle I'm going to try him bitless (only in the school, ha, not risking life and limb on hacks on this spooky idiot with no bit!) and see how that goes. I'm really interested to hear other bitting success stories though so will be following this thread with interest!

I don't think my boy even has a crowded mouth. His breeder told me that his brother always got his tongue over the bit too. I doubt that it's hereditary, probably more to do with the type of bit used when breaking them I reckon, maybe they used a bit with keys or something?

I have always had him in a loose ring french link snaffle. I got advice from Neue Schule to try their tranzangle lozenge, I got the cheap version from Cotswold Sport instead though (I didn't own him then, and it was a lot of money to pay out for a bit for a horse that wasn't mine). I also tried (on his breeder's recommendation) a straight bar happy mouth - he wouldn't tolerate it in his mouth from the second I tacked up, I didn't even bother trying to ride in it in the end. Just wondering if perhaps I should try something else, or else try retraining as per your comment, JillA...

 

[DiamondMartella]

My horse is grabs hold of the bit and leans occasionally takes off into a fence when once she grabbed hold of the bit, opens mouth all the time and loves crossing her jaw and "taking charge".

I also went down the same route as you, teeth back bit expert etc. She had been way over bitted in the past having been ridden in a butterfly flip combination bit :O
The bit expert advised me to use a myler hanging cheek snaffle with no change to noseband which was a cavesson. She still did the same thing but was less fussy in the mouth.
I then changed it to a loose ring waterford with the acavallo bit guards and a rope noseband - iv covered this in sheepskin btw
She is now going - sorry for saying it - Perfect.

Trial and error all the way - you'll find what he likes sooner or later. Good luck

 

[eggs]

Thank you - I haven't actually tried a grackle yet! Can I double check please this would be dressage legal?

Yes, grackles are now BD legal. If you go to the BD website and look up the rules and qualifications section there is link to all the legal tack and equipment which is very useful

 

[OldieButGoodie]

Yes, grackles are now BD legal. If you go to the BD website and look up the rules and qualifications section there is link to all the legal tack and equipment which is very useful

Great! Another tool to try... Something has got to work for him - other than bitless, which may be a route I'll explore one day.

 

[oldie48]

My horse has a small mouth with fleshy lips, a big tongue and the insides of his cheeks (according to my vet) are also fleshy and easily caught by his back teeth. He is better in a double bridle and although he doesn't keep his mouth closed, the contact is better and he gets a nice frothy mouth which to some extent hides his teeth. He is quite an anxious horse and to some extent I do think the gurning is related to anxiety as well as the conformation of his mouth. I just try to ignore his open mouth these days but I do get his teeth done very regularly so I know nothing is hurting him.