Horse ownership unbearable

I'm Dun said:
Getting fat doesnt always lead to laminitis, I see far too many fat horses without it for that to be the case, so its not wilful, its more of a gamble I guess.

I wouldnt normally say this, but I'd post on the highland pony group and see if anyone will take him. Highland people are very protective of the breed and I've often seen ponies being rehomed.

I have a friend sent her 2yr old to conservation grazing as she was smashing through fencing at the yard. I can try and find out details for you if you want? Its all highlands so must be suitable grazing wise and sounds like a set up he would enjoy. Does he get on ok with other horses? I'm assuming so, and in that case I have someone I can ask who I know personally who might have some options. Neither of these is likely to be local though, so not sure how you would feel about that?
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I did that last week one possible lady less than an hour away. Problem is I wouldn’t have anywhere for him if it didn’t work. So quite a worry giving up the only place I can find that is even remotely suitable. The irony is he’s super happy it’s me that’s miserable. I don’t like the bullying behaviour of field owner. She’s so irrational and irratic. I think the rough ground on conservation grazing would be bad for his stifle. Plus I’d not cope if I found out he got ill or wasn’t happy. So difficult!
 
maya2008 said:
You need to get the size up from the one he would be in a headcollar (so full size for a cob) and add padding wherever it might rub. I used to pad the whole of the top (sewed on fake fur from eBay or the insides of old coats) and then lined up the hole with the pony’s teeth to check it was in the correct place. If not (horses with an overbite will find it isn’t for example) we did a little DIY on the hole so there was an appropriately sized hole in the place where their teeth met.
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I have literally tried four or five different muzzles. Thin line didn’t rub and did the job just ruined his teeth!
 

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suestowford said:
That is reassuring, thank you!
Yes, I have mine at home too, it's so much easier than keeping them to someone else's rules. Livery is so much harder in many ways.
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We tried to sell our house for just this reason last summer. Sadly no takers and then I got cold feet about moving two hundred miles away from family and friends.
 
It is so so awkward and I fully sympathise as not sure what I’d have done if where I am now hadn’t sprang into existence when it did as the situation at previous yard (him and another horse being unable to be turned out together due to him being an absolute dick to it despite several introduction attempts) could not realistically have continued (& that’s without the too fat despite muzzling issues). Well actually no I DO know he’d either have gone back to Gawsworth or I’d have begged the farm that I used to be at with the orange one until his cushings / laminitis got difficult to control there and prayed that he could cope with their admittedly quiet rubbish grass (& didn’t eat the ragwort)

In your current position I’d say give what you’ve been offered a try and hope it works out & if it doesn’t cross that bridge if it comes to it. (If you’re worried about being left with nowhere could you pay to hold your space at current place for a month or as a backup plan? I’ve done this a few times when I know what I’m doing is an experiment or when I’ve got too much stuff to move in one trip!) Unless of course you’ve got reason to believe your new offer is highly unlikely to work (realistically you’re going to have to face this situation wherever you move)
 
Expo said:
I have always kept my horses at livery, and I believe that the perfect livery yard does not exist. Looking for nirvana is a futile pursuit. It is always the case that, wherever you are, there will be some sort of compromise that you will have to make in order to allow you to settle and get on with life. If that means that you have to grit your teeth and put up with bonkers owners, changing rules, other liveries doing things, or behaving in ways, you don’t like or approve of, less than perfect facilities or whatever, then so be it. That’s livery yard life, unfortunately. The trick is finding the place where you can live with the compromise: constantly yard jumping looking for non-existent perfection is futile because it’s not there to be found.
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The problem is the bar is awfully low with a lot of places. Many zoo animals have a better quality of life and it's hard to un-see when you realise how fundamentally cruel it is to keep a large herd animal in a box all day. I think I could put up with the bonkers YOs and liveries, but seeing horses suffer from their environment on a daily basis is what broke me.
 
@pistolpete i really feel for you. My current pony has EMS. It’s very difficult to find a place for her to live where she can go out summer and winter and have her grazing controlled in the spring and summer. All it takes is a small section of pasture for me to fence off and manage but this seems to be a big no for most yards. Instead we are offered to join the fatty field where the ponies are indeed fat, probably because of the lush grazing in said field!!

I hope that you manage to find a good enough place for your pony. I think you are having a rough time of it. Surprisingly a lot of vacancies seem to be appearing at yards at the moment and maybe it is the same where you live. x
 
I know he has worn his teeth on the muzzle but personally I wouldn't worry about it. My last gelding and one of my mares both of whom were put down at 23, (nothing to do with their teeth) had worn their middle incisors nearly down to the gum and that was without muzzles. Neither were cribbers but were often on short grass although not deliberately restricted. The mare used to get over weight in summer but lose it in the winter, gelding always kept a nice weight. If his teeth wear down more it might help with weight control. I have no idea how long you hope he will live but he isn't young so better he wears his teeth while wearing a muzzle than dies because of laminitis. Mine lived out 24/7 on 14 acres with sheep.
 
maya2008 said:
You need to get the size up from the one he would be in a headcollar (so full size for a cob) and add padding wherever it might rub. I used to pad the whole of the top (sewed on fake fur from eBay or the insides of old coats) and then lined up the hole with the pony’s teeth to check it was in the correct place. If not (horses with an overbite will find it isn’t for example) we did a little DIY on the hole so there was an appropriately sized hole in the place where their teeth met.
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I’d go even bigger, so the depth of the bucket designs comes well up the pony’s face, creates better air flow around, and less able to rub/drag the sides down and off. Eg. ‘Best Friend’ super large draught horse size on a dainty Sec D face.
If you are worried about tooth wear, a lady in Guernsey designed and patented a lovely muzzle, specifically following tooth wear issues with her own pony.
this style attaches onto your head collar, whereas BF design has its own straps (which you could also wind through a head collar for extra security). Really soft and flexible, lots of air flow, I was very impressed when one of ours needed muzzling. Will try and find contact details.
Having said all this, I do think muzzling whenever grass isn’t growing is problematic, even with quite a long swath, horses also seem to be grubbing up a lot of earth / mud with their mouthfuls. Which probably doesn’t help teeth or digestion.
Also, whenever/ however we limit their intake - that does encourage horses to ‘gorge’. Ponies that have been on starvation paddocks, strip grazed, muzzled, tracked don’t seem to have any idea of pacing themselves once in a field - don’t even come up for air! Whereas a group of fatties left up to their axles in grass also spend time loafing, playing, just hanging, and (infuriatingly!)far less prone to lami.
 
Miss_Millie said:
The problem is the bar is awfully low with a lot of places. Many zoo animals have a better quality of life and it's hard to un-see when you realise how fundamentally cruel it is to keep a large herd animal in a box all day. I think I could put up with the bonkers YOs and liveries, but seeing horses suffer from their environment on a daily basis is what broke me.
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I was at my share horses yard on Sunday and watched proper horse abuse! Poor young pony being beaten with a shavings fork and lunge whip to go on a box. He’s only four purebred Connie who I thought had a kind owner! So miserable. Quin would lose his mind in that environment!
 
Exasperated said:
I’d go even bigger, so the depth of the bucket designs comes well up the pony’s face, creates better air flow around, and less able to rub/drag the sides down and off. Eg. ‘Best Friend’ super large draught horse size on a dainty Sec D face.
If you are worried about tooth wear, a lady in Guernsey designed and patented a lovely muzzle, specifically following tooth wear issues with her own pony.
this style attaches onto your head collar, whereas BF design has its own straps (which you could also wind through a head collar for extra security). Really soft and flexible, lots of air flow, I was very impressed when one of ours needed muzzling. Will try and find contact details.
Having said all this, I do think muzzling whenever grass isn’t growing is problematic, even with quite a long swath, horses also seem to be grubbing up a lot of earth / mud with their mouthfuls. Which probably doesn’t help teeth or digestion.
Also, whenever/ however we limit their intake - that does encourage horses to ‘gorge’. Ponies that have been on starvation paddocks, strip grazed, muzzled, tracked don’t seem to have any idea of pacing themselves once in a field - don’t even come up for air! Whereas a group of fatties left up to their axles in grass also spend time loafing, playing, just hanging, and (infuriatingly!)far less prone to lami.
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Yes his off button is broken! I just popped weight tape around him and despite three weeks of extra food there’s no damage yet. Thank you shorter days and some cold but not frosty weather.
 
Boulty said:
It is so so awkward and I fully sympathise as not sure what I’d have done if where I am now hadn’t sprang into existence when it did as the situation at previous yard (him and another horse being unable to be turned out together due to him being an absolute dick to it despite several introduction attempts) could not realistically have continued (& that’s without the too fat despite muzzling issues). Well actually no I DO know he’d either have gone back to Gawsworth or I’d have begged the farm that I used to be at with the orange one until his cushings / laminitis got difficult to control there and prayed that he could cope with their admittedly quiet rubbish grass (& didn’t eat the ragwort)

In your current position I’d say give what you’ve been offered a try and hope it works out & if it doesn’t cross that bridge if it comes to it. (If you’re worried about being left with nowhere could you pay to hold your space at current place for a month or as a backup plan? I’ve done this a few times when I know what I’m doing is an experiment or when I’ve got too much stuff to move in one trip!) Unless of course you’ve got reason to believe your new offer is highly unlikely to work (realistically you’re going to have to face this situation wherever you move)
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Yes I’ve kept my place at previous yards also. I could do that I’ve just left him eating out of a trug bucket with his head wedged next to his Shire girlfriend! It’s got some soggy hay in it! They love sharing and are usually together when eating. Bless them. Can I split them up?
 
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Have you thought about doing a wanted ad on NFED? List everything you need and see if someone calls you - you may find a perfect quiet hideaway type place like that, knowing how bad the area is for the more basic set ups :)
 
teapot said:
Have you thought about doing a wanted ad on NFED? List everything you need and see if someone calls you - you may find a perfect quiet hideaway type place like that, knowing how bad the area is for the more basic set ups :)
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Good idea! I did think about it and was surprised to see ads now cost £8.99 each. A good investment if it works. I have loads of stuff to sell too so could get pricey. But definitely worth considering especially as I don’t need hacking or a stable. Thank you.
 
pistolpete said:
Good idea! I did think about it and was surprised to see ads now cost £8.99 each. A good investment if it works. I have loads of stuff to sell too so could get pricey. But definitely worth considering especially as I don’t need hacking or a stable. Thank you.
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Are you in Hampshire/New Forest area?

If so, I can keep an ear out :)

Feel free to PM if you'd prefer.
 
pistolpete said:
I was at my share horses yard on Sunday and watched proper horse abuse! Poor young pony being beaten with a shavings fork and lunge whip to go on a box. He’s only four purebred Connie who I thought had a kind owner! So miserable. Quin would lose his mind in that environment!
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I wish I could say I was surprised, but I frequently witnessed similar behaviour at a previous yard. If it was a dog they would probably be done for animal abuse and a crowd of people would step in to stop the person. The double standard for cruelty towards horses is weird to say the least.
 
Miss_Millie said:
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I frequently witnessed similar behaviour at a previous yard. If it was a dog they would probably be done for animal abuse and a crowd of people would step in to stop the person. The double standard for cruelty towards horses is weird to say the least.
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I know! I really don’t understand it!
 
bouncing_ball said:
I think a cow / horse is a size could trample a person. Hence I think there is perception that violence is okay if it enables handling / moving / loading.
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I think this should logically be an argument against violence, because a large animal with trauma is much more dangerous to handle than a large animal which has been treated respectfully. But yeah, I can see how some people come to that conclusion through fear and being in an environment where it is deemed okay.
 
Miss_Millie said:
I think this should logically be an argument against violence, because a large animal with trauma is much more dangerous to handle than a large animal which has been treated respectfully. But yeah, I can see how some people come to that conclusion through fear and being in an environment where it is deemed okay.
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Loading cattle and horses is rather different, both large and potentially deadly, but generally horses are handled as individuals, used to being led and tied, with an ideal of future cooperation.
Cattle, often multiples: safest to create an easy funnel into the transport, then make sufficient noise behind to drive them forward and fasten the loading gates ASAP. If cattle start dithering about, and charge back down the ramp - all those behind will get crushed.
Cows that regularly change grazing locations, will often load themselves and wait for you to catch up!
 
Fieldlife said:
It’s interesting, I was browsing FB page of Monshall Horse Retirement Livery.

Always good to have field herd retirement options.

Huge grassy fields, no mud (shown), lots of hay in feeders. Lots of happy horses. Loads of photos. Looks amazing.

But some look VERY fat. Incredibly fat in some photos. Which must be a health risk!

Dunno if at some point people are saying, got to go in some way or other & throwing caution to the wind to have some happy years living in a herd unrestricted.
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My retired horse is an extremely good doer and never stops eating and I'm afraid to say overweight but he lives out with my ridden mare as her companion and is very happy with his life, I don't rug or give him anything extra ,If I decided to restrict his grazing he would not be happy so I balance the fact he is overweight but happy, he has been retired for nearly 5 years now. Sometimes it may not seem an ideal situation but it could work.
 
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