Horse part loan - reasonable cost & labour

[Lucylane]

Hello -
So I am part loaning a horse 2 days per week for 130£ per month.
On top of that I am expected on my days to muck out, fill water, hay nets, make up feeds etc bring in from field..which is fair enough for the horse that I am loaning & riding.
HOWEVER I am also expected on that day to muck out another horse that I am not ‘allowed’ to ride, muck out, feeds, haynet rug change etc full daily care for this horse that I am not part loaning. It isn’t even the lady that I loan froms horse it’s her friends at the yard.

I can’t understand it - however I had searched for a part loan for ages and nothing was suitable so I don’t want to rock the boat by refusing to do it and potentially loose the horse..as I searched a long time for her - she is a lovely mare.

Do you think a request like this is reasonable? I feel like I’m paying so much for just 2 days and doing extra labour than I should be & feel a bit of a mug. This horse has another part loaner that pays the same and does the same jobs. So clearly if I refuse they will just find another loaner that does it.

Shall I bring it up or just stay quiet?

 

[Clodagh]

Depends how much you like the horse. Everything is only worth what someone will pay. If shes a nice well schooled pleasure to ride it sounds fair enough.

 

[ihatework]

It's a bit odd and not normal!

Essentially if you have access to a nice horse with good facilities, that you enjoy then then doing the chores for yours is 100% right. The per month fee you pay is reasonably cheap so no qualms there.

I suppose it's a bit down to supply and demand - how attractive is the horse as a part loan option, how much do you bring to the table as an attractive loaner for the owner, and what other options do each of you have.

I'd be inclined to at least have a chat with the owner as to why it's been set up that way and try and understand it from their perspective - personally I wouldn't be happy (and wouldn't have agreed to it up front) but it may be you are subbing a cheaper PL fee for your 'free' labour.

 

[Abacus]

It sounds as though the owner and her friend have a mutual arrangement to help each other, and as the part loaner you have become part of that system. I can understand that, although appreciate from your point of view it is work looking after a horse outside the one you share. I've previously been in a similar position as the owner of a horse where a group of 3 of us looked after each others' horses on a rota, and if I had a sharer at the time she would do the same.

You get a horse for about 8.5 days per month on average, which is £15 per day, and on those days you also do jobs. I guess it's up to you if you think that is a good deal. It's cheap compared with a riding school, and is roughly the cost of keeping a horse for that day. Do you have other options?

ETA: if both horses have a part loaner on the same system, then the horse are looked after 4 days per week by the part loaners, so the actual owners only have to cover 3 days between them but get to ride 5 days if they want to. In this sense it's a bit unfair on you. But the owners call the shots I guess.

 

[nagblagger]

It depends whether you knew what was expected before you took on the loan or was it added after.

 

[Lucylane]

It sounds as though the owner and her friend have a mutual arrangement to help each other, and as the part loaner you have become part of that system. I can understand that, although appreciate from your point of view it is work looking after a horse outside the one you share. I've previously been in a similar position as the owner of a horse where a group of 3 of us looked after each others' horses on a rota, and if I had a sharer at the time she would do the same.

You get a horse for about 8.5 days per month on average, which is £15 per day, and on those days you also do jobs. I guess it's up to you if you think that is a good deal. It's cheap compared with a riding school, and is roughly the cost of keeping a horse for that day. Do you have other options?

ETA: if both horses have a part loaner on the same system, then the horse are looked after 4 days per week by the part loaners, so the actual owners only have to cover 3 days between them but get to ride 5 days if they want to. In this sense it's a bit unfair on you. But the owners call the shots I guess.

So the horse which we are not ‘allowed’ to ride actually gets looked after and mucked out by both part loaners of the other horse 5 days per week. The other part loaner does 3 days (she pays the same as me even tho I just do 2 days) so the girl owning the horse that we look after but aren’t ‘allowed’ to ride only needs to muck out 2 days a week but can ride 7 days if she wishes. So she basically has a full livery service for free. I want to be ok with it but I don’t like being in any situation where I am being taken advantage of.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's a bit much having to muck out someone else's because of the arrangement the 2 owners have, but I suppose if that's what they want and you feel it's not for you just look for another share horse

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

So many variables with sharing so the short answer I think is that it's only you OP who can work out what you think is reasonable, and weigh up the pros and cons of the current arrangement.

If this arrangement was made clear at the start then I'm not sure I would bring it up expecting to change it after making that agreement, but if not then perhaps there is a conversation to be had.

Personally I would not agree to a set up of this kind. When I shared a horse on DIY, I happily helped out with communal yard jobs and bringing in/turnout for other horses on the days I was there. I think that is quite different to taking on full care responsibilities for another horse not being shared.

Do the two horse owners cover jobs for each other's horses or is it just the sharers being asked to do this/would they be covering for each other if there were no sharers in place?

 

[ihatework]

So the horse which we are not ‘allowed’ to ride actually gets looked after and mucked out by both part loaners of the other horse 5 days per week. The other part loaner does 3 days (she pays the same as me even tho I just do 2 days) so the girl owning the horse that we look after but aren’t ‘allowed’ to ride only needs to muck out 2 days a week but can ride 7 days if she wishes. So she basically has a full livery service for free. I want to be ok with it but I don’t like being in any situation where I am being taken advantage of.

Devils advocate here .

What if she is paying your owner for the loaners services (either cash or some other arrangement you are unaware of) - so she is not getting it for free - but is indeed paying. Then your owner is essentially subcontracting the work out to the loaners (potentially reducing the cost you pay to account for it). Then you aren't necessarily being taken advantage of, but you are a bit in the dark!

Probably not going down that way, but unless you do the old fashioned talking thing you will never know

 

[twiggy2]

I wouldnt do it or expect it.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Devils advocate here .

What if she is paying your owner for the loaners services (either cash or some other arrangement you are unaware of) - so she is not getting it for free - but is indeed paying. Then your owner is essentially subcontracting the work out to the loaners (potentially reducing the cost you pay to account for it). Then you aren't necessarily being taken advantage of, but you are a bit in the dark!

Probably not going down that way, but unless you do the old fashioned talking thing you will never know

If that is the case that kind of stinks even more imo. Horse owner number 1 getting quite a cushy deal there if taking money for work, not doing the work, and then getting paid by the people who are doing the work (if I've understood your hypothetical scenario correctly).

 

[Glitter's fun]

There isn't a right or wrong way to make these kinds of arrangements. What you describe is unusual but it comes down to whether you are happy with it & whether there are better opportunities locally.

At £15 per day you can forget riding schools or even full-loaning, you'd be paying much more, so you're talking about a different share somewhere else if you want to move.

Do you enjoy riding the horse & can you see a different share option that you like better? Is there something the owner would adjust to make you feel you are getting more out of it? For example are you allowed to take the horse away to shows or clinics on your days?

 

[Splash2310]

Frankly, I think you’re being taken advantage of, and I think you know you are which is why you posted here.

It’s a really tricky situation part loaning, and I was in a similar situation to you in that I struggled to find something and ended on taking on an unsuitable horse because I was so desperate to ride. Can you refuse to muck out the other horse? Or say that you are struggling for time to muck it out too?

If that doesn’t work, I would consider giving up and looking for a new loan - it doesn’t sound fun for you having to look after this other horse too!

 

[ihatework]

If that is the case that kind of stinks even more imo. Horse owner number 1 getting quite a cushy deal there if taking money for work, not doing the work, and then getting paid by the people who are doing the work (if I've understood your hypothetical scenario correctly).

It stinks if it's not transparent.

But again devils advocate - horse ownership is expensive.

Can't keep a horse (a nice one with facilities) for £15/day which is what loaners currently paying. So if the horse is costed at £25/day and the loaner is working £10/day of it I can kind of see the logic - but don't necessarily agree with it.

Again ... talk to the flipping owner and put your mind at rest. Or find another horse to share.

 

[Ahrena]

It seems a bit much to me.
I had a sharer for one of mine and when I started working shifts, she would bring in/turnout my own one plus feed her and change rugs but I wouldn’t ever expect her to muck out the one she didn’t ride

 

[Orangina]

It stinks if it's not transparent.

But again devils advocate - horse ownership is expensive.

Can't keep a horse (a nice one with facilities) for £15/day which is what loaners currently paying. So if the horse is costed at £25/day and the loaner is working £10/day of it I can kind of see the logic - but don't necessarily agree with it.

Again ... talk to the flipping owner and put your mind at rest. Or find another horse to share.

Surely you can easily keep a horse for £15/day especially DIY?
I think they are taking the piss a bit but only loaner can decide if mare is worth having the piss taken a bit I suppose!

 

[Lucky Snowball]

If you’re not happy then speak to owner or leave the agreement. Caring for any horse should be a pleasure not a chore.

 

[Identityincrisis]

Not a chance!! I know that’s easy for me to say as i have a horse but £130 per month is my DIY livery, so if i got 2 loaners I’d have nothing to pay and would probably be quids in. I agree with you doing the jobs for the horse you’re sharing but other than the occasional TO or bring in, i would NOT expect to do that for someone else’s horse!!! By the time i’d done jobs for 2 I wouldn’t have time to ride

 

[IrishMilo]

That's nuts. Would be a big fat no and then some from me...

 

[MissTyc]

If you’re not happy then speak to owner or leave the agreement. Caring for any horse should be a pleasure not a chore.

This. It sounds like you're uncomfortable with the arrangement, so maybe start discretely looking around for another horse if a compromise cannot be reached.
If you didn't look after the other horse on your days, who would? If the answer is "no one", then I imagine it's not negotiable.
It really doesn't matter how to why the two owners started their arrangement; if sharers are automatically looped into the system, then it is what it is, and for a nice horse, the owner will always find another rider/lackey.

 

[criso]

I'm just wondering if from the owner of the horse you share point of view, they are looking to get a day when they don't need to come to the yard. If one of their chores is to muck out the other horse, then if you didn't do it, then they'd still have to come up which would defeat the purpose of having a sharer to get s day off.

It's not an expensive share if it's a nice horse and good facilities and hacking so only you can decide if it works for you.

 

[Wishfilly]

I think it's a pretty strange set up too. Have you ever met the owners of the other horse?

I would be concerned that the owner of the other horse isn't actually aware who is handling her horse on these days, and that could lead to a tricky situation with insurance if there is an accident involving the horse.

I would definitely be keeping my eyes open for another share, and agree all duties up front!

 

[Annagain]

Slightly different situation but I have two horses - my retired old boy and my ridden boy for whom I have a sharer. The deal sharer and I have is that on her days she does both horses.

It doesn't really work out that way because on her two week days, I turn the horses out (including others as we have a rota system at our yard) and do half the jobs (I find it easier to do all the mucking out and leaving hay, feed and water to sharer than doing everything for one horse). She then finishes what I haven't done and gets them in (along with one or two others if necessary but she makes those arrangements directly with their owners). The only day she does it all is a Saturday. In summer, it's all different as they're all out 24/7 so she checks Archie over when she gets Wiggy in to ride. She pays for Wiggy's shoes (and often pays for some extras like when I paid for him to be clipped as my back was bad and paid half for his saddle check - I don't ask her to but I open my account and find she's paid some money in) as I felt asking her to do my old boy as well as paying more than she does was a bit much. The time off it gives me to do life is far more important to me than money.

She also looks after them both if I go away (rarely for more than one night while they're in) and was fantastic, waiting for and dealing with the emergency vet for Archie 2 weeks ago when we thought he had colic and I was away. By the time I got back 3 hours later, he was all stitched up and rehydrated (he'd got himself in state after cutting his eye). Again, that's worth far more than money to me.

I've had several sharers over the years and the agreement was different with all of them. Some paid more than others, some did more days than others because their and my circumstances were different at the time. In each case, the agreement suited and benefitted both parties and that's what was important. If you're not happy with the situation, talk to the horse's owner.

 

[Andrew657]

I think all of these arrangements are individually tailored to the owner/sharer circumstances.

I have a share (3 days paying considerably more than you) - and do chores for two horses (however they are both owned by the same person). The key difference is I usually only do either morning or afternoon on my 3 days. The arrangement has a good degree of flexibilty and normally woks well.

I don't ride the second horse- not sure if I would be able to cope with her - but both horses are generally well-mannered and straightforward to handle on the ground.

I would say that although I only officially ride 3 days - on average the owner probably rides once a week so I get most of it

 

[TheHairyOne]

Its all down to the individual, and costs for keeping a horse can range from a couple of 100 a month to 1000's.

My sister has a fair few sharers as too many horses. They live out 24/7 so much less in the way of jobs. However, the one thing that jumped out at me is that you only do 1 end of the day and only go up once on your sharer days? My sister has her pick of sharers as we dont have set times you have to be at the yard and they arent expected to go twice a day (or pay extra for yard services) as they would if it was a stabled horse.

However, imo, if its not working for you leave. If you like the horse and dont have many options stay. If you want to rock the boat talk to the owner.

 

[gallopingby]

Well, either you want to loan the horse and are prepared to meet the conditions or you find another one to loan. You’re not paying a huge amount for the use of someone’s horse. Maybe you need to work out how much it would cost to buy and keep your own horse, (including the initial outlay and tack etc) then consider how you would manage to look after it seven days a week or the cost of any alternative arrangements you might have to make. If l was the owner of the horse l’d be pretty upset that you aren’t happy about something you initially agreed to and would be considering ALL my options.

 

[Fieldlife]

Actually I think it is more how long the tasks take / how much work is involved?

Are you only doing morning or evening on your shift?

How long does feed, hay, water, rug change, muck out, bring in take you for two horses. Very much depends on layout of yard / field / muck heap etc. Can you do all chores in under an hour or not?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It find it quite bizarre that the owner that gets their horse mucked out by someone else's sharer is ok with that.

I wouldn't ever feel comfortable with that.

 

[Melody Grey]

The jobs sound reasonable to me for the horse you’re loaning, but not the other one!

For doing the other one, I wouldn’t expect to be paying tbh. Be careful with insurance /liability if they’re owned by two different owners too?

 

[AmyMay]

Very odd (ie the other horse). Wouldn’t be for me I’m afraid.