Horse "passed" vetting but now insurers say it failed- LONG!

*hic*

*hic*

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I wondered whether anyone had experience of this sort of situation?

Last year I viewed and agreed to buy a horse subject to vetting. She was perfect for what we wanted but as I was spending over £5K and she was by far the most expensive animal I had ever bought I wanted to make sure my money was safe, that she was fit for the purpose and sound. As she was over 300 miles away I engaged a recommended local equine Veterinary practice to do a 5 stage vetting and had some discussion with him before the visit along the lines that: I considered myself a novice horse buyer, this would only be the second vetting I’d ever had done; that she was extremely expensive for me and that I needed to protect my investment with insurance; that the projected activities were PC/RC and pre-novice/novice eventing.

Vetting was carried out and usual wear and tear on 10 yo who had evented for 4 years noted plus 6 strides lameness after flexion on both sides. I asked about this at the time and whether that meant she had failed and was told “I would never fail a horse on six strides lameness after flexion”. I asked whether it would be a problem for the insurance and was told “No, not with a pass vetting certificate”. He finished the vetting and we then had another chat during which the flexion test came up again and I was again reassured, I asked whether it was grounds to knock the owner down on price and was told that as the horse had passed vetting, no, it wasn’t. I then brought up insurance again; again no problem and agreed that the vet would fax through the vetting certificate to the insurance company as soon as he returned to the office – ie in about 20 minutes so that she was fully covered for the long journey home. I gave him the policy number (she was to be added to an existing policy) and the fax number both of which he wrote down, paid cash and a little extra for his trouble in faxing the form over.

I then rang the insurance company to check that she was covered and was told that she had 14 days accidental cover and that there would be no problem if she had a vetting certificate. I told them that I had arranged for it to be faxed over asap so that she was fully covered before the journey even started.

So I’m now the owner of a nice big capable mare, with a vet cert and insured!

For 13 days 20(ish) hours to be precise. Then to my horror I watched her cantering round the field, admiring her paces, as she slipped and fell . . . . and got up on three legs. I came home, rang my local equine vet and whilst waiting rang the insurance – and the nightmare got worse. They had not had the vetting certificate and but provided I could get it to them they would cover her as she was within the 14 days accident cover, mad panic to scan and email it over. The vet couldn’t come out due to emergencies and asked that I take her to him. She was a real star (that’s what I paid for) and even on three legs she loaded perfectly. On examination she had ruptured her peroneus tertius – not a very good prognosis with a high percentage being euthanased.
I rang the insurance company to tell them – but they had now submitted the vetting certificate to their underwriters who had declined cover as she had failed the vetting on flexion.

I immediately emailed the vet who had done the vetting to tell him what had happened to the horse, ask if he had any experience of the injury, prognosis and treatment and to ask him when he had faxed the certificate to the insurers as they had denied receipt and I wanted to be certain that it had got to their office. I have had no reply.

She has recovered from the original injury BUT I am now left with an uninsurable horse that did not pass a vetting, who has cost me goodness knows what for 5 months of box rest. Worse she has injured herself again and of course I have no vets bill cover.

My own vet has advised me that the original vet should never have written a pass certificate out and that I should “go after him” but I don’t know whether anyone has successfully claimed against a vet and whether anyone could give me any advice. Obviously the injury to the horse is nothing to do with him but it is down to his negligence on two points that I am in the situation I am today – firstly writing a pass certificate for a horse that “failed” flexion and secondly failing to fax through the report, which would at least have given me a chance to get her re-vetted or possibly insured elsewhere.

Sorry it's so long - any advice would be welcomed.
 
Oh jeez jem, what a nightmare. I'm no expert but I do think you're on sticky ground where a living creature is concerned. There are so many ways that people find to get round their true moral (if not legal) obligations. I would say you need the services of an equine solicitor pronto. Will your insurance cover you for this? Some policies do - even your household insurance might. Worth checking out but my heart aches for you and your ned.
 
You need to get yourself a copy of H&H, in there you'll find details of various solicitors specialising in Equine matters. Contact them & have a chat. They will be able to tell you what your options are & if you have a good case to sue the examining vet. Don't bother using a High Street Solicitor as this is specialised stuff. Good Luck
 
if the vet said the flexion test wasnt an issue why did he then write it down on the certificate? i am guessing he gave you a copy which is what you sent to the insurance people after the accident. so did you not see this? i would have asked the insurance people if this would cause problems, not the vet.
i would have thought that the insurance people would have got in contact with you sooner to question where the vet cert was. also i would be talking to your insurance people a bit more you know they will try weasel out of anything. and ring the vet dont email him! sorry no help really sorry about your horse though.
 
Horrible situation. I think you've unfortunately been a victim of your own inexperience and a less than helpful vet. I've had a fair few horses vetted over the past few years so I'm more than well aware that anything the vet writes on the vet cert will be swooped on by the insurance company when sorting out cover. So despite a horse 'passing' the vet things can still be excluded from cover. One horse (a friends this time) had a slightly odd sized hoof at the front - the insurance company excluded the whole foot from any future claim. It wasn't enough for the vet to say the horse wasn't suitable for what my friend wanted but enough for the insurance company to exclude the hoof from cover. You can take it up with the insurance company and their underwriters but at the time you are agreeing the insurance. It's too late to argue with them once you've agreed the conditions of the policy (or in your case when something has gone wrong).

I'd certainly get some legal advice from one of the specialist equine lawyers but it does sound a difficult case to get any come back. The vet didn't do anything wrong on the vet cert - he noted the flexion test issues, which were told to you and put on the vet cert. In his judgment they weren't anything that would prevent the horse doing what you wanted it for - so he 'passed' the horse fit. Your issue would have been with the insurance company when they wanted to exclude cover because of the tests but sadly all this should have been sorted before your took delivery of the horse. The only thing I can see that the vet did wrong was not fax the insurance company the vet cert when he said he would, but again I've never had a vet do this on my behalf. I've always been the one to send the vet cert myself. Sorry it doesn't sound more positive - you're stuck in a horrible position.
 
Regarding the flexion test - I agree with the insurers I think - a flexion test on MOST horses is going to be alright, but, it can also be an insight into problems, such as spavin, and therefore is often a 'cautionary' on an insurance policy. My mare is lame for about the same amount on a flexion test, and my vet said that he couldn't pass her, but would say that she would be capable of doing 'x' rather than a total all clear.

I agree with the above - get the opinion of a qualified equine law firm. You may be on sticky ground. Poor, poor you, as you went through the motions just as you were meant to, and especially as you specifically told him that you were a almost newbie - buyer.

Good luck, and let us know what happens.
 
Box of Frogs and Toby_Zaphod - thanks for your thoughts, I knew it wasn't one for the local solicitor but I guess writing it down helped me to straighten it out in my head. Thank you

wildpony - I was given a copy of the vetting certificate and it is clearly shown on there, just above where it says that "on the balance of probabilities the conditions set out above ARE NOT likely to prejudice this animal etc etc. It was handed to me as a pass certificate and being a novice buyer and having questioned the vet twice already I took his word that this was indeed a pass certificate, that six strides lamess was no reason to fail. The insurance company sent me a standard letter stating that she was covered against accident for 14 days and that full cover would commence on receipt of the vetting certificate - as it was dated the same day I bought her I knew that they would have been unlikely to have received and processed the form and got back to the people I spoke to the same day as it was fairly close to close of business when I rang them. With hindsight I should have chased them immediately I received the letter but I had already purchased and taken home the horse by then. I thought I'd done everything I could to cover myself.

I did try to make a complaint to the insurance company but they say there is no reason to complain - even though I had a letter stating that she was covered for all accidents for 14 days and full cover would commence on receipt of the vetting certificate, which I read as accidents were covered until 14 days or receipt of vet cert - whichever was the sooner, had she got colic or something then I could have understood their decision as that would not have been an accident.
 
Ah, someone else! I had a similar problem with the vet that did my horse's vetting, fortunately not involving an injury like yours though.

I agree with what others have said about getting some legal advice from an equine solicitor but PLEASE also make a formal complaint to the Royal Veterinary College about the vet involved. He should not be able to behave like this. A*sehole!

I'm sorry to hear about your horse and hope that she gets better v soon.
 
Definitely talk to a specialist equine lawyer as others have said.

If you were within the 14 day accident cover only period then regardless of the vetting she should have been on risk anyway I would have thought?

It's going to be a bit of a battle I'm sad to say, hope you can get a good lawyer on your side and get it sorted. What a desperately sad, and expensive, situation to find yourself in.
 
And thanks also to gedenski's_girl and Apalacia for their input!

I have to say that mare will have a long term home with us, we've already gone through the awful six weeks of waiting to see if she'd have to be pts - and getting to know and enjoy her as a person during that time. When we knew she was definitely recovering we were all so happy for her. She is a lovely lovely girl.
 
cellie - the usually very well recommended NFU, with whom I have two other horses insured. I had never been in a position to claim before.
 
ISH_lover - my reading, from the little I've done with legal documents, would suggest that she was fully covered and in fact the insurer agreed with me, until they got the vetting certificate at which point they decided they wouldn't even cover her with exclusions or without any vet's bills cover.
 
What a nightmare for you
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There are so many little parts to this that all add up to one big headache.

Firstly I agree with others and contact an equine solicitor.

In the meantime I would call the insurance ombudsman for advice, make your insurance company aware that you are doing this.

I would also try and speak to the vet that performed the 5 stage, if they ignore you then write them a letter stating all the facts and c.c. the BEVA .... that should spur them into a response.

Good luck, from what you have said I think you have a good case on getting the insurers to pay for the accident.
Not totally convinced you will get far with the vet.
 
I am really suprised they won't cover her at all as the flextion test is only part of the whole horse and would not say effect her eyes or her tummy or other areas of her body. I would try another insurance company as you need 3rd party at least.
 
From an insurance point of view (and if their policy is the same as ours), from the date of the horse going on cover there would be a 14 day exclusion period for illness or disease. However, the horse would/should be covered for an accidental injury (which this was). The vet did not specify this horse had a particular problem and the horse passed a 5 stage vetting. The vet obviously did not find a reason for the few 'lame' steps so it would be difficult to say it was this underlying problem. If the vet couldn't pinpint an obvious reason for this lameness - ie arthritic changes, swelling, heat in an area etc then it would be extremely difficult for the insurance company to turn this claim down if they stated they were covering for injuries from the outset.

Please go back to your insurance company as I feel there are a few issues with that particular company at present when it comes to settling claims (think they are tightening up). A friend of mine has recently tried to claim for his horse who was PTS on his vets advice but the insurers have refused to pay and he's given up fighting them now. I told him he shouldn't have done and you shouldn't either.
 
Dont gve up write to the manager first appealing asking for a reply within a specified time then write to the ombudsman.I have had to do this on a couple of occassions and have had good results .Good luck with your claim and your horse.
 
When I had my horse 5 stage vetted, the vet noted that he needed to be shod. NFU wanted to exclude his feet. Of course I argued the point and the exclusion was taken off, but they will try to exclude for anything. I think that 6 strides of lameness actually is pretty significant - they should be able to recover in a couple of strides really.

I know of another person whose vet failed to identify a heart murmour which meant that she had basically bought a field ornament. She got the purchase price back from a compensation calim from the vet.

First step is to contact the Royal Vet Society to put in a complaint - they can sometimes sort the issues out for you. Then seek advice from a specialist equine lawyer.
 
What a nightmare. If the vet told you the horse had passed, then the insurers should have to accept that; after all, isn't that what vettings are for? If they're going to start questioning the results of vettings and the vet's judgement then what's the point of having them done?
I had a few probs getting another insurer to pay up and I sent angry letters until they coughed up (this was the insurance company that vets hate
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but I didn't know any better) I later switched to NFU and they were fantastic all the time I had them.
Hope you get everything sorted soon!
 
I am not one for putting much stock in flexion tests however 6 strides lame would concern me; I expect no more than 2 or 3 strides (at most) of uneven movement and wouldn't consider a horse with more than this without going down the x-ray or radiograph route. Would this be an option for you? If you had these, and all looked well, then the insurance company would surely be blown out of the water?
 

Jemima_too I am sorry you are going through all this, with such a lovely mare - just shows how fragile these animals are
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I just wondered though - surely the accident was nothing to do with any lameness? And since it was within the 14 days then they would never have known about the vet certificate anyway. (as in they insure for accident without the vet certificate).

What I am trying to say is since this is an accident and not an illness surely they should pay out? Or are they saying that she had a 'predisposition' to have an accident?

With regard to the vet - I do not think there is any comeback on them. They have written the certificate to show that the horse is fit for purpose. (and if it is the vet I think it might be (you bought the horse in yorks?) then he is very very good - for what it's worth).

I would do as others suggest & take the advice of a solicitor.

(((hugs))) & I really hope you get this resolved & that the mare is ok. x
 
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The insurance company sent me a standard letter stating that she was covered against accident for 14 days and that full cover would commence on receipt of the vetting certificate -

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the important part of evidence.....
 
[ QUOTE ]
I just wondered though - surely the accident was nothing to do with any lameness? And since it was within the 14 days then they would never have known about the vet certificate anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
My thoughts exactly!
 
Hmm, I think it will be more difficult to sort this out because so much time has passed since the accident (not your fault but it removes the immediacy of the claim). I don't think you can blame the vet, he was correct to note the flexion and then said that in his opinion, this would not affect the horse for the purpose that you were buying it. I've seen many horses vetted and this isn't unusual.

I wonder if you could get somewhere if you prove to NFU that the injury was completely unrelated to any problems with the flexions. I should think that had the injury not happened, they may well have covered your horse for everything bar any ligaments etc that affect the flexion test. However, they used the flexion tests as a reason for not insuring her because she'd had the accident and they didn't want to pay out. However if the peroneus tertius is something related to flexion tests you probably don't have much chance of a successful claim.

I'd definitely contact the ombudsman as others have suggested. I've had a succesful outcome from this when an insurance company tried to exclude my horse's entire respiratory tract because he once had a virus! Good luck, I hope you manage to sort it out, what a nightmare for you.
 
Poor you.
Had similar thing with a vet when I was selling my horse.
Vet did 5 stage vetting and couldn't get horse to go lame on the flexion test so passed him.
Vet told me seller horse has passed then subsequently told purchasers that he couldn't guarantee horses soundness even though he had flown through 5 stage vetting!

Get legal sdvice and push the insurers.
Should have been covered for accidental injury
 
QR - Thank you all again for your input and helpful advice.

FWIW I have now been on the phone to a legal helpline and have some idea of how to proceed but would rather not say too much further on here as I don't wish to damage anyone's reputation - insurance or vet. In fact NFU have been good and very reassuring with the mare's "stand in" who has suffered a similar freak accident.

Just to confirm, the peroneus tertius, whilst it is part of the operating mechanism for the leg, would not and could not have caused the lameness on flexion - she was bi-laterally lame in any case. The rupture was caused by hyperextension of the leg when she fell. I have suffered a similar injury in the past and I can assure you my legs are well-muscled and sturdy. The muscle (tendonous muscle to be correct) was stretched beyond endurance and snapped. It's an injury commonly found in barrel racers apparently.

I will update when (if) I get any progress or a resolution.

I hope that all of you who have been put in a similar position have managed to work a suitable solution out and that your animals are now sound and happy.

The mare is currently dozing in the sun with her bottom lip hanging down - contented!


Thanks again.
 
Before getting into the expense of solicitors I would advise that you contact the veterinary governing body (RCVS). Discuss the issues with them and see if this situation can be resolved with their assistance. A vet is a professional and his/her conduct is regulated. I think you have been badly let down in this case.
 
This is a horrible situation your in. Cant offer any advice but good luck with it. Have you already been lumbered with the vets bill?
 
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