Horse personality change; spooking at everything

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muffinino

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My Section D 5 year old seems to have undergone a personality change for the worse!
When I bought him as a 14 month old he was not well handled but generally chilled about pretty much everything. He went to shows in-hand from when I bought him and took them in his stride. He accepted the saddle and bridle and being sat on for the first few times without batting an eyelid. I broke him last year and started hacking him a little without any dramas. I decided he wasn't quite physically ready to do much more so turned him away for the winter with the intention of bringing him back in to work this spring. He lived out all winter as he has done since I've had him and as far as I know nothing negative has happened to him.
At the end of the winter, even before he was brought back in to work, he had changed into a nervy, spooking idiot. He would spin around and gallop off at the slightest thing in the field and would be constantly on the look out for things when being brought in, even though he’d seen everything on the yard before. I lost a little confidence in him so took him to a professional to be brought back in to work. She is very confident and said he was very good, never mentioned him being spooky. Although when I went to see him half way through the 5 weeks he was with her, he spooked at something at the side of the school when she was on him, came to a complete stop from a trot. Now I have him back he is just as spooky as when he left, constantly looking for things to spook at and run away from, still looking at things he's seen a hundred times before. I try to stay calm and ignore what he's spooking at, so as not to make a big fuss and 'reward' him for bad behaviour, but it's chipping away at my confidence to get on him and continue the work the professional did.
I just don’t get it, he was never like this before so why has he suddenly turned in to a bag of nerves? I could cry, it's so frustrating! Has anyone had a similar problem and if so, did you get the bottom of it and what did you do to help the horse cope?
 
Has he gone on to different grazing? Grazing that might be deficient in magnesium? That presents as over reacting to things they should be okay with.
 
He went from the winter field to the summer field, which has much richer grazing, so for a while I thought it could be spring grass silliness. But even when the grazing's gone down and he's not on it 24/7, he's still as bad. I bought a magnesium supplement in case of deficiency, which he's been on for a few months, but that doesn't really seem to have made a difference. Him being forward and energetic I can cope with, but the constant spooking and looking for things is beginning to wear me down!
 
If he's not "misbehaving" - I.e. No trying to deliberate,y unseat you, I'd say he sounds pretty normal for a section d with his experience. I would do groundwork to build trust and then just stick with it. He'll calm down eventually but you need to keep him in regular work. If you're not comfortable doing it, do the groundwork and then find someone more confident to gently hack him.
 
Barnacle said:
If he's not "misbehaving" - I.e. No trying to deliberate,y unseat you, I'd say he sounds pretty normal for a section d with his experience. I would do groundwork to build trust and then just stick with it. He'll calm down eventually but you need to keep him in regular work. If you're not comfortable doing it, do the groundwork and then find someone more confident to gently hack him.
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I'm not sure if he is doing it deliberately as such, just constantly pratting around. I know what you're saying about it being normal for a green Welsh cob and you are right, I think it's the sudden change that's thrown me. He is like a completely different horse, it's really strange. I think that's why I've found it so difficult to cope with because he only started doing it this spring and has never been like this before. Even before I started to bring him back in to work, he was like it being handled on the ground and in the field. Ah, it's just horses being horses, I know, but I'm completely confident with the groundwork so it's really frustrating that he just isn't getting any better. Hopefully it's a phase and with work and handling he'll just grow out of it, or at least lessen the behaviour a bit.
 
Does he seem genuinely scared or could he be bored and looking for mischief? I wonder if, as a 4yr old being ridden in itself was enough to keep him occupied, but now he's 5 he's physically stronger, a year wiser and (being Welsh) he's thinking he's been there and done it and it's not interesting enough any more?

I'd try to keep his sessions a bit shorter but keep him really busy and active with lots of changes of direction and pace in the school and exercises to keep his brain active when out hacking. My boy can be a bit spooky hacking on his own just because he doesn't want to be there so tries diversion tactics. We go down the road leg yielding side to side (on the quieter roads) doing some shoulder/quarters in and turn on the forehand or walk pirouettes to go round corners etc. If we can't be doing that due to traffic we're trotting or doing lots of transitions (all sorts of combinations of walk/halt/trot) and there's barely a minute when he's being left to his own devices. I either insist on him going properly in an outline or, on the way home he can go long and low, but he's not allowed to lift his head to look around too much. He doesn't have time to think about where the next spook is coming from. This is only on his own, he has nice relaxing hacks if he has company as he's not a prat then!
 
Hi,
Welcome to the world of the Welsh cob :)
They are well norty....super intelligent...and the only type of horse group who truly believes it is a daily part of the food chain.
Monsters can lurk in the most ordinary places....one minute they can be totally asleep ....the next they could give the Derby winner a run for their money :)
This is the Cob sense of humour.....and you either love it or hate it....
I would suggest the beast is probably still having too much rocket fuel in the turnout time he is having.....if you are able....break up his routine as much as possible...cobs like a lot of variety...soak his hay for an hour to get 40 % of the sugar out and completely cut out any hard feed...yep even the 'handful' of something that is the only thing he has.....and within a month....the demons should be much better controlled :)
Mine is a worse git in hand than ridden...lol :)
Best of luck....and keep the faith.
Bryndu
 
annagain said:
Does he seem genuinely scared or could he be bored and looking for mischief? I wonder if, as a 4yr old being ridden in itself was enough to keep him occupied, but now he's 5 he's physically stronger, a year wiser and (being Welsh) he's thinking he's been there and done it and it's not interesting enough any more?

I'd try to keep his sessions a bit shorter but keep him really busy and active with lots of changes of direction and pace in the school and exercises to keep his brain active when out hacking. My boy can be a bit spooky hacking on his own just because he doesn't want to be there so tries diversion tactics. We go down the road leg yielding side to side (on the quieter roads) doing some shoulder/quarters in and turn on the forehand or walk pirouettes to go round corners etc. If we can't be doing that due to traffic we're trotting or doing lots of transitions (all sorts of combinations of walk/halt/trot) and there's barely a minute when he's being left to his own devices. I either insist on him going properly in an outline or, on the way home he can go long and low, but he's not allowed to lift his head to look around too much. He doesn't have time to think about where the next spook is coming from. This is only on his own, he has nice relaxing hacks if he has company as he's not a prat then!
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Yes it could very well be bored and looking for mischief, rather than genuine spooking. I think him doing it whilst being led etc. was what confused me most. I still don't get the complete personality change but maybe it's due to boredom, whereas before he was quite happy with his little world. I'm now just frustrated with myself as it's knocking my confidence, which is making me less inclined to do things, when the opposite may be the solution! I will look up some short schooling session ideas to keep his mind occupied. I'm also going to contact a friend of mine who is a confident rider/teacher and see if she can do some sessions with me. If I'm thinking about what she's saying and asking me to do, I think I'll be more focused and less inclined to worry about him.
Thanks all for advice, I just needed to sound it out, I think, it's so easy to get bogged down in my own head and not see the wood for the trees
 
Ha ha thanks Bryndu :D ;)
I already have a Welsh cob X that I broke and brought on. He's quite 'Welshie' in his personality, (the usual traffic/tractors/marching bands etc. not a problem, but a pile of dirt on the side of the road is a cob eating monster!) so I thought I would be ok!

He has a handful of Hoofkind chaff and half a scoop of Equimans general supplement (can't remember the name, in the red bag) so doesn't get hard feed as such. I could completely cut it out as he doesn't really need it; he was getting a lot more in the winter when he was out 24/7 but the first thing I did was cut everything out down to what he has now. He only gets it now as my other horse has sarcoids and gets the treatment in his feed, so gets fed in the stable next door, and I was giving the young one his magnesium in his feed.
 
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I would try upping the magnesium in a pure form such as 98% from pro earth. If that makes no difference I would crack on and work him a lot harder.

Welsh Ds can be complete idiots. It is part of the charm of the breed but I do agree the change is strange. Mine have all improved not regressed, with life experience.
 
The 'Traditional Welsh Cob' which was based on the reliable Welsh Mountain pony were fine and laid back. They were not worried about monsters or anything else. (I had one so I know).
Some bright spark came along and decided that they needed thinner legs and more go.... so some 'Arab' blood was introduced and that is were it all started to go very wrong.
What you effectively have is an Arab horse disguised as a Welsh Cob.
The solution is no hard feed at all, graze him on low grade scrubby type pasture and hack them out daily for at least 5 hour hacks to get rid of the 'Fizz'. (Even longer would be better).
 
muffinino said:
Ha ha thanks Bryndu :D ;)
I already have a Welsh cob X that I broke and brought on. He's quite 'Welshie' in his personality, (the usual traffic/tractors/marching bands etc. not a problem, but a pile of dirt on the side of the road is a cob eating monster!) so I thought I would be ok!

He has a handful of Hoofkind chaff and half a scoop of Equimans general supplement (can't remember the name, in the red bag) so doesn't get hard feed as such. I could completely cut it out as he doesn't really need it; he was getting a lot more in the winter when he was out 24/7 but the first thing I did was cut everything out down to what he has now. He only gets it now as my other horse has sarcoids and gets the treatment in his feed, so gets fed in the stable next door, and I was giving the young one his magnesium in his feed.
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You may have read some of my posts about my WelshDxTB who was intolerant of all cereals and refined sugars. I bought her as a 4 yr old and she was lovely, green but very willing and easy. By the time she was 6 she was a nightmare. I had different people with all sorts of ideas as to what I should do with her. Needless to say no-one actually came up with the correct solution.

As a 5 yr old she had started spooking at noises and she continued to get more and more difficult. Eventually, after I had stopped riding her, first on the road and then even in the field, I realised that her feed was causing her problems. She was also difficult on the ground - especially when coming in for her regular feed.

Please take your horse off all and any feed except hay/grass. I could see the difference in mine within a week. Good luck!
 
Thanks for the replies, I've just got in from the yard and to prove me wrong, he was brilliant this evening :p The older one managed to kick me on the ankle as I was putting them out as he was too busy staring at something to look where he was going, but the younger one was like a lamb. I'm sure he knows what I've written about him!

Pearlsasinger - that does sound very similar, a complete change of personality! I will have a look at your posts about her. He was getting a biggish feed over the winter as the first winter I had him he dropped a lot of weight living out and looked horrendous. I found a balancer that worked well for him so he had that along with chaff and sugar beet to keep him at an ok weight. That was the first thing to go when he started acting up, and it had been cut down a bit by then anyway as it was coming to spring.

Interesting that so many have said the same re feed - I have cut it down so much that I didn't think he was having anything at all really, but it may be that little bit is too much, so I will stop giving him anything. Are there any 'safe' things I can give, say treats when he loads well (I like to give him a little something for loading as he was very bad to load before). Unfortunately I don't have a choice of fields at the moment, although the grass isn't particularly rich. Probably still more than he needs though so he can come in during the day with my other horse. There are small paddocks on the yard which would be great for my two but none available at the moment. I will try lunging him before riding to give him a bit of extra work, will try it in the mornings when I have time, too.
 
Another vote her for the pure magnesium, not a calmer, mix it with grated carrot if your being really careful about any hard feed. I've tried all calmers and supplements and the pure cheap magox from ebay is the only thing which has definiatly made a difference for my Welsh Sec C! Good luck
 
I agree with giving rewards when a horse has done as asked. Unfortunately most pre-packaged treats have a mixture of ingredients, any of which could potentially cause problems. The mare I wrote about could have alfalfa and non-molassed sugar-beet but we have a mare atm who cannot tolerate alfalfa or carrots, so I am afraid that it is a case of trial and error. These days I try to use single ingredients, so that I know exactly what has been added to the diet and when and monitor the horses' reactions and behaviour.
I would use carrot or apple as a reward for your horse atm, OP.
 
Thanks again everyone. I'm going to try cutting out all feeds and upping the work first, I think.
I don't give treats for nothing, just one when caught, one when turned out and when they load well. I'll try some apples as I know carrots are high in sugar.
 
If it's just happened this Spring then I'd say there is a high chance it is linked to the grass (which even if grazed down in these warm, wet conditions will be lovely and sweet and sugary still) if that is the only thing that has changed, although his age and the fact he is Welsh will likely be adding to the fun. Short of doing a full analysis (expensive, worth considering if you are planning on staying in one place and continue to have problems you can't control though) you can only guess at what's going on with the grazing and most likely culprit is mag deficiency. I know you tried supplementing this but was just wondering what amount it was you were giving. My own D is on a fibre based diet with supplemental mag ox (at quite a high level right now... more for his feet than his spookiness but every little helps) as well as a good mineral balancer with added goodies like yea sac and vitamin e. He still has moments of lunacy that seem worst when the grass is growing!

This brings me to my next suggestion which is if you feed him anything with molasses in swap it for something without (and make sure it is also low in cereals). Read the ingredients list if unsure. There's loads of very good quality low sugar feeds out there and the majority are still quite tasty.

I'd also take a look at how rich your hay / haylage is. Personally would avoid early cut ryegrass type haylage as it can be akin to rocket fuel for some horses (I also avoid it for foot related reasons) but later cuts made from different grasses (eg timothy) don't have quite the same effect. If on hay unless he's a poor doer then you could try soaking his hay to reduce the amount of sugar in it.

I will also second that it does seem to be a Welsh "thing" to act like the world is out to get them, especially when they're a little bored / in need of direction.

Mine does best when he has a varied workload. If I'm not being inventive enough in finding new places to explore and fun things to do then I get increased spooking levels as he doesn't think he needs to pay attention cos I'm not asking him to use his brain (most recent tactic to stop spooking was pointing him at a freshly laid track that's still very uneven that he had to pick his way through... suddenly spooking stopped as brainpower was required). If I do any one thing too much he starts playing up because he thinks he knows it all!

You don't necessarily have to work him hard physically if he's unfit right now, just think of things to tire his brain out eg doing inhand and ridden work over poles / raised poles (you can make all kinds of fun shapes to play with... I made a square once out of raised poles and was getting him to do all sort of different exercises with it on the lunge), putting some cones out as markers to ride around, teaching him to yield his quarters / shoulders/ back up every single time from a light aid with a hand or a whip (useful for not getting squished or run over if he's being daft) playing with novel objects like tarpaulin and umbrellas (introduced slowly with no pressure) or even just trying out new hacking routes (inhand / longlined / with a friend to start with if you're not confident)
 
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