Horse planting help please!!

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Jenny2303

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Hi everyone

long time lurker here looking for some advice!

i have a pony on full loan - she's a 14hh irish pony and 18 years old. i've had her for 3 months now, her owner owns the yard and she is on part livery there so obviously still has a lot of contact with him. when i first got her i was quite nervous handling & riding her, she had always been not bargy on the ground so to speak but needed a firm hand or would pull to grass and there is grass all the way from field to yard, she could never be lead with much slack or she would try her luck.

today i went up to get her from the field and she planted on the ground, i had a whip with me tried light taps everywhere to no avail, it just annoyed her and she threw her head as though she was going to rear so decided to discontinue altough she's never kicked or reared before and has really lovely manners, she will stand still without being tied up while you close gates, to be tacked up etc..

she was trying to pull to hay bales and when she did this i just turned her in a circle tried to keep walking forward, feet planted again. she tried to do it again and burned my hand on the lead rope (my own fault for no gloves i know but i wasnt expecting this behaviour!!) so i circled and took her back to the field, let her go and she didn't move away from me, chasing the other horses away if they tried to come up to the gate to speak to me etc.. she let me put the headcollar again thought ok we're going this time, and at the same spot about 20 yards from the field planted wouldn't move again. the whole thing basically ended up with me going away home exasperated in tears - i didnt have hours to stand fighting with her. yo wasn't there at the time and isn't shall we say approachable, i gave him a call and was just basically told oh she doesn't do that with me maybe she was just having a bad day... ok.. great so that doesn't help me at all!!

when her feet were planted she wasn't being bargy or dangerous as such she was standing quite happily on the spot when there was no pressure, i think had i let go, she would have kept standing there, or just went off to attempt to eat the hay bales. a couple of dog walkers passed and she stood giving the im such a cute pony act while the cooed at her! i'm not very big so she is obviously a lot stronger than me. she would sometimes take a couple of steps forward with pressure but she would walk forward a few steps and try to push me with either her head or shoulder while walking into the side where there would be a wall, or fence depending on where we were! i had treats in my pocket, she would walk while i was holding it a few steps, then when i gave her the treat she planted her feet again, then the next time she wouldnt even walk forward for the treat, thought if she had to walk for it she didnt want it, lol.

i have booked a session with a good instructor as i'm nearly 99% sure she is just taking the piss out of me, but she is not free for a couple of weeks, and it's going to be pretty embarrassing if she arrives and the pony isn't even in from the field because she won't come!!! obviously i can't have this carrying on, it may just have indeed been a bad day as her owner seems to think, but i have a feeling now im no longer nervous handling her, she doesn't like it and is trying to assert herself as herd leader like she is in the field from what i can see, my tears were from frustration rather than anything else, a few weeks ago i would have probs been a quivering wreck!

i dont work her everytime i go, sometimes i will just bring her in for a feed, or turn her out if she has been in but not normally the case.

so with the exception of the headcollars, as i don't think her owner will allow this, what can i do if i have a repeat of this again? the other ponies in the field aren't ridden and i've never seen any of them brought in, so its not possible to have someone bring one of her field buddies down to see if that helps. i didn't try the whip on her legs, but like i said it seemed to just be aggrovating her, she isn't really all that responsive to it even when you're riding though, and will just start jogging for a few paces and throw her head most of the time.

i had to leave to go to work today, else i probably would have sat it out at risk of looking like a complete idiot if anyone else showed up!! i love her to bits and she really is the sweetest girl, she looked very remorseful for my tears, lol.

thank you so much if you've read this far i really appreciate any advice!

jenny x
 
Glad you are going to get an instructor - that is a wise move. In the meantime... Yes she is entirely taking the mick out of you. So a few suggestions to try.

First is - don't pull. In a contest of strength she will win. Ask her to step sideways - so rather than pulling from the front ask her from a 45 degree angle so you can zig zag. You may only get a few steps but each step is a win! If she backs up well you coud just turn around and come in backward. We did that for a few weeks with a baby connie who thought planting was a fun new game.
Leave the whip. There is no way you can tap her from the front whilst trying to lead that will incenitvse her to move forward. It just ties up a hand when you don't need it to.
Always wear gloves, a hat and proper shoes.
Can you bridle her and lead from the bridle? Some horses who plant with a headcollar will lead from a bit.

Through no fault of your own - absolutely no blame - you have taught her that she can win. She got to go back in the feild. So this is going to be a bit of an uphill battle. A good instructor to work on ground skills will work wonders.
 
You have my sympathy! Planting is the most annoying exasperating thing.
My horse will plant, weirdly more often on the way out to the field. I am on a real mission with his confidence so am completely ignoring it. He stops I stand still, no pulling no tugging. I just stand with a loose rope. So far it’s not actually taken long before he gets bored and walks on. To which he gets lots of praise for going forwards.
I once had good results by taking my tack to the field (different much more stubborn horse!) and riding him up. Might that be an option?
 
I’ve had several major planters. I pull them to the side so they have to step sideways to balance, then the other way... and so on. Keep them moving their feet. Eventually they’ll get bored. They usually end up walking a bit then planting again so just keep it up. Remember to release the pressure as soon as you get the sideways movement.
In over 25 years, I’m yet to find a planter that this hasn’t worked for. Usually after a few days of this they realise it’s far too much effort and opt for walking forwards instead.
 
Making a swishing noise behind/to the side of the horse's quarters is usually more effective than tapping. I f you decide to touch the pony with the whip use it on her side where your leg would be if you were riding - and mean it!
 
Thank you for the replies!

I did think about trying to lead her from the bridle, but, in all honesty she doesnt lead much better from the bridle and rides in a martingale, so i think doing that might just cause her to throw her head up into the air because she knows theres no martingale on? i think she has been ridden in it for years so would suddenly feel free without it!!

i knew even as i was leading her back into the field that i shouldnt have been, although that being said, i'm not sure she would have ever moved at my efforts, she looked like she would have happily stood on the spot all bloody day and like you say, i'm not going to win a pulling contest! i tried coaxing nicely, treats, growling, shouting, probably borderline hysterical screaming and shoving towards the end of it and she hardly even flickered a hoof, just stared at me like i was some sort of fool. i could see her legs bending a couple of times, almost threatening to move and that was all we achieved i feel completely deflated because i really thought we were starting to bond and make progress with each other.

i did think about tacking her up and riding her down, but the only thing which puts me off doing this is if she then starts being an a*hole while i'm on her and i end up losing my confidence! although she is only being taken to the yard to be groomed and tacked up, then back in to be fed and turned out again, i suppose effectively she doesn't even need to be in the stable before she's ridden, but its what she has done every day for pretty much her whole life, it shouldn't suddenly be an issue for her!

she is supposed to be on full loan with me from next month.

I will try with the side stepping, tomorrow, i think she will end up rearing if i keep trying with a whip, i may just be overthinking the matter but she looked like she was thinking about it today, i dont mind it taking time, i can have time as long as i know i will need it! i could possibly try putting her bridle on over the top of her head collar so if she tries funny business i could try leading her from there, i dont want to be yanking in her mouth though, which obviously when she tries to pull to grass will be unavoidable if she has a bit in, and it doesnt stop her trying she just gets more pissed, she is one of those if you try to get into a pulling match she resists and pulsing on her reins slows her down more effectively.

sorry for all of the novels and thank you for reading & replying!
 
Sorry for the double paragraph in there i copied half of my reply to read a new comment and must have pasted it back twice lol
 
Can you get someone to help you with her?, it can be less than easy to keep a planter going on your own. If you can get a helper to walk behind, either swishing the whip, without touching the horse or whirling a lead rope behind her, she is more likely to keep going. YOu need to walk at her shoulder and watch carefully for any signs that she is going to stop/dive off to the side and turn her even slightly, so that you are in control of her feet.
 
This has nothing to do with a bond. Thats a human concept. Horses follow a strong leader. And a strong leader absolutely does NOT equate to violence. Honestly - if you are on your own there is no way to employ a whip or any other goad to cause her to step toward you. You are holding the whip standing in fornt of her! Someone with you acting behind her - yes. You from the front - really not.

You need to bore her out of it. You've tried "coaxing nicely, treats, growling, shouting, probably borderline hysterical screaming and shoving towards the end of it" This is what a good instructor will help you understand. None of this will make a blind bit of difference - actually quite the reverse. As a mare she must trust you to lead her. You have to be a good leader to her. In horse terms - not human.

I suspect from your replies you are quite young? Tell the owner you are having trouble. Ask her to help show you how to handle a mare. Absolutely get a good instructor ASAP. Its rotten when horses challenge us and we don't have the tools or experience to deal with it. Knowing you need help and getting it (ideally in person - not from a forum) is the best and wisest answer.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Can you get someone to help you with her?, it can be less than easy to keep a planter going on your own. If you can get a helper to walk behind, either swishing the whip, without touching the horse or whirling a lead rope behind her, she is more likely to keep going. YOu need to walk at her shoulder and watch carefully for any signs that she is going to stop/dive off to the side and turn her even slightly, so that you are in control of her feet.
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I can sometimes, but not all the time, theres generally not ever many people around at any one time unless its in the evenings which are awkward for me and then you can't get in the school and i always like to do a bit of schooling with her so she is listening to me, my husband finds great hilarity in her not listening, and because the yard is so out of the way none of my non horsey friends would be too keen to come all the way up to help me chase my pony up the road, lol, ideally i would have someone with me all the time!!
 
Shay said:
This has nothing to do with a bond. Thats a human concept. Horses follow a strong leader. And a strong leader absolutely does NOT equate to violence. Honestly - if you are on your own there is no way to employ a whip or any other goad to cause her to step toward you. You are holding the whip standing in fornt of her! Someone with you acting behind her - yes. You from the front - really not.

You need to bore her out of it. You've tried "coaxing nicely, treats, growling, shouting, probably borderline hysterical screaming and shoving towards the end of it" This is what a good instructor will help you understand. None of this will make a blind bit of difference - actually quite the reverse. As a mare she must trust you to lead her. You have to be a good leader to her. In horse terms - not human.

I suspect from your replies you are quite young? Tell the owner you are having trouble. Ask her to help show you how to handle a mare. Absolutely get a good instructor ASAP. Its rotten when horses challenge us and we don't have the tools or experience to deal with it. Knowing you need help and getting it (ideally in person - not from a forum) is the best and wisest answer.
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Thank you - i'm not too young i'm 21 but this is my first 'real' horse, as my other pony was an ex rs kickalong! I wouldn't ever hurt her i didn't whack her with the whip out of anger or anything like that i suspect i would have earned a hoof to the head if i did lol, i do know the shouting etc gets me nowhere, i just completely lost composure today, probably to do with the rope burn she had given me, god knows!!

the first few times i was with her her owner was with us, but did still even pull him to the grass en route to the yard, perhaps not as often as me but he had a hold of her by her head collar after she pulled once and he is obv stronger than i am and have heard a few passing comments from other liveries which make me think she runs rings around him too at times.. eg oh you can catch her from the field thats surprising as so and so cant he has to take a bucket of feed.. and is that you here for the wild horse, which i thought was a joke until now to be honest, she also apparently had a sharer at one point who she used to take off with, she schooled really badly with him there too.. his dad is a farmer who likes his ponies fat and and unworked and is very much a just give it a good slap on the rear kinda guy and think she has had various loaners/sharers rather than a contant 'leader' so to speak!
 
I keep having flashbacks now of me standing there like an absolute loon losing my marbles one by one while she stood watching me, one ear slightly back thinking well then, she's finally lost the plot.. bloody mare lol, occasional little glance back to her buddies in the field thinking get a load of this one thinking i'm going to move for her.. i hope there was no one at home in the cottage by the field or you might see me on idiot tv soon. i'm looking forward to the lesson but just really hope it doesn't have to start 20 yards from the field with her feet planted with it being a couple of weeks away, i will try moving her to the side tomorrow, she's very 'interested' in new people so dunno if bringing hubby to give chase from behind so to speak could make her spooky and turn a frustrating situation into a dangerous one!
 
One hard crack on the arse with the whip backed up by walk on.
Won't move her feet? Use all of your weight to push her sideways
This is clearly a horse that knows how to take the pee.
 
It sounds to me that she knows exactly how to get her own way. I would get a good halter on her and insisit on a few steps wth a very quick release reward With all animals and children you have to be firm but fair even if it does take hours you need to get your ground rules in place Your instructor will help you with that but there can be no deviation from your rule if you have asked her to move forward she must even if you have to go backwards sideways anyway but upwards before you get forwards you must get it. You could even make her back up for miles if seh refuses to go forward but make sure she is backing up in the direction you want to go. I suspect you are a little nrevous of her and wont insist so she just does as she likes. With one horse I handled the best way too prevent this type of behaviour was simply to hold the noseband near its mouth and it would follow as it was so restricted it couldnt go any other way
 
Can you borrow a Monty Roberts Dually Halter and lead in that until she learns the pressure goes away as she walks forward?
 
"Bum Rope"britching strap,round her bottom then run lead end through headcollar.Strong pull on it plus LOUD command "walk on",better if someone else behind her echoing your words.All our horses are trained to do this from any early age,not unusual to see a big boofy colt getting a pre sale refresher.
 
Get the owner to show you how she deals with her. If you are having her on loan from the yard owner she should be the first person to turn to. I do totally agree with the others who think she is taking the piss out of you because she can.
 
And ask your instructor to help get her in from the field and to give you some tips and guidance = nothing to beat an experienced eye and hand.

This may be the only thing you achieve from your lesson but long term it will be worth it.
 
Jenny2303 said:
the first few times i was with her her owner was with us, but did still even pull him to the grass en route to the yard, perhaps not as often as me but he had a hold of her by her head collar after she pulled once and he is obv stronger than i am and have heard a few passing comments from other liveries which make me think she runs rings around him too at times.. eg oh you can catch her from the field thats surprising as so and so cant he has to take a bucket of feed.. and is that you here for the wild horse, which i thought was a joke until now to be honest, she also apparently had a sharer at one point who she used to take off with, she schooled really badly with him there too.. his dad is a farmer who likes his ponies fat and and unworked and is very much a just give it a good slap on the rear kinda guy and think she has had various loaners/sharers rather than a contant 'leader' so to speak!
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It does sound as if this mare has been allowed to do pretty much as she pleases. You do need to have more control over her than a headcollar gives you currently. I like a plain rope halter but you really need to know how to use the pressure and release with any kind of halter, so I suggest that you lead her in a bridle, take the martingale off for leading. I think part of the problem is that you keep imagining all the things that she could do if you insist that she behaves herself. TBH it is extremely unlikely that she will, she is more likely to say 'Oh well, if you insist, I will do what you want'. Very few horses want to hurt humans, although they may be bad mannered, so try to envisage her doing what you ask her to do, rather than catastrophising.

Good luck!
 
Sorry, haven't had time to real all the replies but - back her up. Pressure with your hand on her chest until she gives ever so slightly then release. If she leans into it, pop your foot on the front of her coronary band which will trigger a backwards move - then instantly release.Do it again and again until she learns to move back from the slightest fingertip pressure, then add the word "back" as a cue. You can do that in the stable, in the yard, in the field, wherever you have chance to do a little work with her.
Backing up is something many horses, especially mares, only do in the presence of a being they consider superior enough to do that for, so once she is backing up easily for you, you will have enough respect from her to do as she is asked.
Mine have to take a couple of steps back before they get their feed put down for them, and then any time I ask it is a learned behaviour.
 
Someone showing on the ground is probably the best thing to do because it sort of depends what kind of personality she has.

Some horses if you just stand there and don't look at them will get bored and walk on, some won't and will just stand there forever or only move to pull away or turn and will still refuse to walk on.

A lot of horse will decide walking on is the easiest way to go if you make their life difficult while they are deciding to plant - moving their shoulders side to side, backing them up, turning in circles etc. But again you have to approach it in a very matter of fact way and keep at it until they walk on (and be prepared to repeat if they stop again in another couple of strides). And it won't work if you intersperse it with getting frustrated and pleading with the horse to move (would you trust in the leadership of someone who was neurotically pleading you to do something?)

Personally if I know that a horse might have that inclination I prefer to set the tone before it happens. So long schooling whip, gloves, headcoller and leadrope. The whip is to flick her behind you without you turning round, or looking at her or slowing down yourself. As you're walking tap her before she stops, ignore and head flicking and just concentrate on whether you got a forward reaction, even if it's only slight. If you didn't then tap again, and so on until she is increasing speed at least a bit when you tap her (you might have to walk her round in largeish circles in the field first to establish this bit). Once she's walking alongside you well only use the whip if she slows down, and then give her a tap tap to increase her speed again. Most horses will then walk straight past their plant point without stopping as long as you are effectively reinforcing with a tap tap as soon as they think of slowing. Some horses might be very well practiced and able to go from a brisk walk to stopped still quickly enough to catch you out, but if this happens just turn, tap tap, walk round in a large circle reinforcing again. Keep it brisk and business like and she'll soon get over it.
 
Thank you for the replies everyone they’re all so helpful and I definitely have lots of things to try and I feel a bit better today which is good.

She isn’t nasty at all she’s really sweet mannered, a bit excitable under the saddle sometimes but she’s not worked much and when you’re firm with her she does as she’s asked, basically when she knows she can’t take the p, no bucking or anything like that , little kids stand and groom her in her stable anyone can come up behind her safely she never lifts her feet apart from to other horses, which is why I was a bit hmm when she looked as though she might rear, but like someone said I could well have been overthinking!

It’s not ideal to be leading her in the field cos of the other horses they like to get too close when’s shes restrained so to speak but there’s quite a lot of open space once she’s out of the field which again was no problem she just didnt wanna go much further, she’s v greedy and gets a feed in her stable tho, so it really surprised me her not wanting to come in especially since she’s was so easily caught, both times!! maybe she just wanted at the hay/lush grass and when she realised she wasn’t getting it just thought.. nah! i had to go back up to the field as I had left something and she was standing there as though I was going to catch her and go through the whole thing again, so she really must think im mad!

im going over to see her soon so ill let you know how I get on and thanks soo much for all of the advice, im going to keep my cool under all circumstances, and have the attitude that at least one of these options will help us in the meantime till we see a professional, Else there will Be plenty people around today with it being sunday so can ask for help, its just a bit daunting being the new person there and don’t want people to think im an idiot although everyone seems nice enough and I think they all seem to know what she can be like at times too!!
 
Hi everuone

I just wanted to say thank you so much!! With a bit side to siding and walking backwards most of the way we got in, she didn’t even pull me to grass on the last part of the walk!! Very happy and not even too sweaty! I was on my own too, no control headcollar or anything!
Thank you again so so so much!
 
Jenny2303 said:
Hi everuone

I just wanted to say thank you so much!! With a bit side to siding and walking backwards most of the way we got in, she didn’t even pull me to grass on the last part of the walk!! Very happy and not even too sweaty! I was on my own too, no control headcollar or anything!
Thank you again so so so much!
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Brilliant - keep it up and you will have a really good relationship based on trust and respect before long
 
I can’t thank you all enough as I’m not sure I even would have went back without all of the wonderful advice! I think she walked backward with the hope of bum swinging me into the wall, but it definitely didn’t take her long to get fed up of it, you’re all amazing!
 
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