Horse planting in hand

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Frumpoon

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The usual techniques of turning circles and/or asking to backup thus far have not worked

Doesnt matter if horse is handled in a head collar or dually, the same planty thing will happen

Any other bright ideas for unlocking a planty horse?
 
Carry a schooling whip and swish it in the girth area, or if that doesn't get the response you are looking for swish it behind the horse. Or we say 'make a noise like a schooling whip':).
This once happened to sister when she was leading my TBx mare, she got stuck between the river and the mill dam, where the path is narrow, mare refused to move forwards or back and there was no room to turn, so sister grabbed a dock stem and swished it. Mare went forwards.
 
Thank you, I will try that

I should have added that previous ‘stick’ based attempts have gone down like a fart in a lift as horse is a worrier and very easily frightened which seems to compound the problem
 
meleeka said:
I keep a constant pressure on the leadrein so it’s not particularly pleasant, but never painful. As soon as the horse moves I release the pressure and praise, then repeat every time they stop. Eventually they realise there’s nothing to be gained by planting.
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I have tried that…but the bloody thing is pretty obstinate and will throw head up and run backwards if it’s not in the mood for pressure
 
Frumpoon said:
I have tried that…but the bloody thing is pretty obstinate and will throw head up and run backwards if it’s not in the mood for pressure
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That's okay, go with it but keep the pressure on until you get a try in the direction you want. Once you get a tiny try, release the pressure, give it a moment then ask again.
 
Have you tried completely ignoring and waiting it out? Preferably with a little bag of treats to encourage their interest? That really worked with my friend's mare. We stood there chatting, examining the contents of the bag, fully prepared to wait for as long as it took. 5 minutes later she was coming to see what we had - small treat and we took a step forward. Next step only took her a minute and by the third treat she was following sweetly. We repeated for a few days and each time got better and better until we managed a whole session without stopping.
 
Frumpoon said:
The usual techniques of turning circles and/or asking to backup thus far have not worked

Doesnt matter if horse is handled in a head collar or dually, the same planty thing will happen

Any other bright ideas for unlocking a planty horse?
Click to expand...
How far are you trying to walk? Try backwards?
 
Both of our young Connemara will sometimes plant.
I've had most success with a flag on a pole or a 12' long line. The flag on a pole is an over priced item but works wonders. My home made alternative (carrier bag on a stick) was not nearly as effective.
One got stuck in the back garden after a short work session yesterday. It had begun to pour with rain and I wanted to reach the gate lol. She planted (I was sort of pleased really because she was not in a hurry to leave the work zone!). So I was doing the wrong thing, standing in front and pulling trying to reach the gate. Refocusing, but from the same position, I applied lighter pressure, sort of just 'holding' the position (so that a fight back was not provoked), with immediate release for any positive shift in weight. It did take 5 minutes, but she stopped resisting and came forward willingly. I did get wet though but see this as an investment in the future...
I also have learnt how to be more effective with a NH type 12' long line. If they plant while we are walking around the fields, we lead with no pressure on the line up to the head, it will hang in a 'smile' but there will be enough line left to circle the end energetically towards the back end. I would be standing behind the shoulder so that I am driving with the circling line. Hope I've explained that ok.
 
Hepsibah said:
That's okay, go with it but keep the pressure on until you get a try in the direction you want. Once you get a tiny try, release the pressure, give it a moment then ask again.
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meleeka said:
I have enough pressure so they can’t throw their head up. Running backwards isn’t the same as planting and much harder to overcome.
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Sorry, this made me laugh - do you seriously believe you can out pull a horse? If a horse wants to throw their head up there is no way you have the strength to prevent it.

OP you have to teach your horse what a tap on the bum means, and if the horse is nervous you need to take more time to do it. I suggest you get a good instructor or very experienced person to help you as it is easy to scare horses with random flailing about with a whip.
 
Groundwork training teaching the horse via pressure and release.

Using sticks and turning off balance etc might get the horse "out" of a plant but it doesn't fix the problem.

It's a training issue and work needs to be done to get control of the horses hooves (& mind).

Plenty of resources available online (videos), DVD and print (Richard Maxwell, Joe Midgely, Warwick Schiller, Buck Brannaman for example) as well as getting a local pro in to help face to face.
 
Assuming no physical issues and that said horse has led in the past not a yearling / other common sense considerations

I would lead in a lunge line and carry a schooling whip (or very effective piece of blue blue water pipe that makes a horrible noise but actually less impact than schooling whip) and the second there is a sniff of a plant I would move them very forward v fast on a lunging circle (assuming not in v narrow track). so they learn when you say move you mean move. you could also lead with lunge whip in the other hand too.
I would practice this in the arena just leading around lots so get the idea across that planting = trotting in small ish circle for 5 circles so much more hassle than just doing as you ask.
 
Annagain said:
Have you tried completely ignoring and waiting it out? Preferably with a little bag of treats to encourage their interest? That really worked with my friend's mare. We stood there chatting, examining the contents of the bag, fully prepared to wait for as long as it took. 5 minutes later she was coming to see what we had - small treat and we took a step forward. Next step only took her a minute and by the third treat she was following sweetly. We repeated for a few days and each time got better and better until we managed a whole session without stopping.
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Going back many a year, this is what worked with mine when he would do this as a baby. A kind of distraction technique but, for him, more effective than a swishy stick or pressure.
It might be a good fit for your horse, as he is quite anxious.
 
Cortez said:
Sorry, this made me laugh - do you seriously believe you can out pull a horse? If a horse wants to throw their head up there is no way you have the strength to prevent it.

OP you have to teach your horse what a tap on the bum means, and if the horse is nervous you need to take more time to do it. I suggest you get a good instructor or very experienced person to help you as it is easy to scare horses with random flailing about with a whip.
Click to expand...
I wasn't suggesting out pulling the horse. I would allow them to go backwards but keep the pressure asking in the direction I want. My horses are not the type to throw themselves around or have major tantrums so this is all I've ever needed to do to get them unstuck. It has worked with first time leading babies, loading, walking through puddles and leaving field mates. It isn't about pulling, it's about persuading.
 
All reasonable suggestions in most other circs but a bag of treats will cause havoc and mugging from the others in the field

Sticks/flags/etc - relies on getting near the bugger whilst carrying said object

Going backwards the half mile or so across the field and down to the yard is just not feasible

I will try the lighter pressure/release technique and see how that goes

I know what is causing it - after a lifetime of being hothoused as a racehorse he thoroughly enjoys living out with his mates on good grass, fresh air and sunshine and is now not quite so keen on being sat on after an extended holiday and let down period :)

I do strongly suspect ulcers with this one so further ridden work is on pause until clinic day but again, i do need to get him in from field in order for this to happen
 
Yup, echo being careful with putting too much pressure on the headcollar, it's a very fine line and they are many times stronger than a human anyway. I was very stupid and did this with mine right at the beginning of owning her, (hopefully I know better now!) she showed me she was very good at then pulling harder backwards against the pressure, rearing if she fancied it, yank free and p**ing off leaving a trail of dust regardless of using a headcollar or bridle. Snowballs chance in hell anyone could hold her when she did this. Also make sure you are not blocking the horses sense of being able to move forwards.

I find it is also much better to have a lungeline or long rope if you need them to move as they can then move without immediately then feeling pressure again from reins or normal leadrope.
 
If he's started to associate coming in with ulcer pain then it's tricky as clearly not just being a little S&*%

I would work on building up slowly - caught and then brought just outside gate for groom / scratch and maybe feed (if he's having some anyway)
Then back in again - repeat 4/5times
Then into stable for groom / scratch

If you get into a fight with them when he has a genuine and valid reason for not wanting to come in the risk is you re-inforce his view.

With these new facts I would try the take a good book and sit it out technique - he's not allowed to eat or wonder off - just walk forward or nothing.
 
Frumpoon said:
All reasonable suggestions in most other circs but a bag of treats will cause havoc and mugging from the others in the field
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It can still be done without the treats, a good scratch and lots of praise can work as well. The ignoring is the main thing, I think. Friend's mare was the type who would get ten times worse if you made an issue of it. She was both anxious and stubborn (the anxiety caused the stubbornness - she was convinced her way of dealing with something that bothered her was the only way to deal with it) so if you made a fuss, she thought she was right to be anxious and became even more stubborn!
 
meleeka said:
I keep a constant pressure on the leadrein so it’s not particularly pleasant, but never painful. As soon as the horse moves I release the pressure and praise, then repeat every time they stop. Eventually they realise there’s nothing to be gained by planting.
Click to expand...
I used to do this with my ex racer too when he planted before loading and it works!
 
One of mine planted for different reasons to your horse and the only thing that worked was to get his feet moving sideways. Basically I had to stand a few feet in front of him and walk from side to side so that his neck was having to bend due to the pressure of the rope. Eventually his feet would start to move a little and after a few lets-right-left-right steps he would then walk forward. Sometimes this took a long time and had to be repeated on the same walk. He was a big 17:3 hh who you could whip until you were blue in the face without getting a reaction. He would plant if something scared him.
 
Will he lead in if one of his mates comes too? If he has been turned out 24/7 for a while it might be the change in routine that is causing the issue.
 
Lunge rein lunge whip helps move them forward and you more room to move for yourself. Then do this going in and out of the school or other gates and eventually you won't need it. Reward for trying the horselyx are a good reward.
 
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