Horse plants itself to ground when about to be ridden.

[p87]

Hi all.... Today I tried all of your advice... Backing her up seemed to confuse her and I became an emotional wreck! Eventually I went back to the old standing there pulling her until she moves, and we did this every couple of steps... All the way up the field... But we got there!!

This was with my instructor!

And then with my instructor we went up and down the road until she would behave herself, she was napping a lot and coming up with all sorts of cunning plans to catch me off guard.

We did this for about 40 mins until she calmly walked out and calmly walked back.

Just got to keep pushing on with that now!

Great you got a result in the end, but in all honesty you do seem a bit out of your depth here, and your flapping and upset with the horse is only going to make the situation a lot worse, even dangerous. Once a horse realises how to get the better of you it can be very difficult to correct that, so maintain your composure and body language with the horse then go and cry elsewhere, they feed off every single one of our emotions.

My advice - and before you jump down my throat, this IS an advice forum - I'd get someone more experienced to take over for now. Obviously the decisions all lie with you, and I'm not trying to be be mean when I say I think you're out of your depth with this one.

Remember you are doing this for your horse, not because you want to prove a point to anyone.

 

[Carryonriding]

Great you got a result in the end, but in all honesty you do seem a bit out of your depth here, and your flapping and upset with the horse is only going to make the situation a lot worse, even dangerous. Once a horse realises how to get the better of you it can be very difficult to correct that, so maintain your composure and body language with the horse then go and cry elsewhere, they feed off every single one of our emotions.

My advice - and before you jump down my throat, this IS an advice forum - I'd get someone more experienced to take over for now. Obviously the decisions all lie with you, and I'm not trying to be be mean when I say I think you're out of your depth with this one.

Remember you are doing this for your horse, not because you want to prove a point to anyone.

Thank you for your kind response. We had a good result today, I have been able to correct her bad behavior in the past which was kicking me, we worked hard and we got over it.

I don't think I am out of my depth because I'm getting the help I need. If I was alone I would definitely be out of my depth. Almost every person I know owns a horse. But I'm just as stubborn as my horse is and she bring out the best in me so I couldn't be without her.

The more we work at our issues the strong we will get is the way I see it.

 

[p87]

Thank you for your kind response. We had a good result today, I have been able to correct her bad behavior in the past which was kicking me, we worked hard and we got over it.

I don't think I am out of my depth because I'm getting the help I need. If I was alone I would definitely be out of my depth. Almost every person I know owns a horse. But I'm just as stubborn as my horse is and she bring out the best in me so I couldn't be without her.

The more we work at our issues the strong we will get is the way I see it.

Glad to see you seem to have a sensible head on your shoulders, and I wish you all the best with sorting out your problems with your horse.

One tip though... don't get all defensive and go on a rampage at the users on here when they give you responses you don't want to hear. No one is out to get you, we are just trying to help, and that can be very difficult when we can't actually see you and your horse in action

 

[Meowy Catkin]

How is she with someone else leading her?

At my former livery yard a fellow livery had this trouble with her horse. It would sometimes take her 1/2 hour to lead the horse a few metres. If I was walking my mare down to the yard, or was coming back from turning mine out, I would lead the mare for her as she never tried it with me. I would turn the horse to get it's hooves moving and then just lead it to the yard while saying 'walk on' in a firm tone of voice. The horse basically had the owner's number.

Re napping when ridden, my mare used to be very nappy on hacks and the main rule that I still have with her, is to never turn on the spot and go straight home again. I ride circular or lolly-pop shaped routes only. She's also tried to refuse to leave the yard etc... so I took her out a few times with an older, bombproof horse to get her confidence up. Soon she was able to hack in the lead past scary things and started to enjoy going out.

 

[Carryonriding]

Glad to see you seem to have a sensible head on your shoulders, and I wish you all the best with sorting out your problems with your horse.

One tip though... don't get all defensive and go on a rampage at the users on here when they give you responses you don't want to hear. No one is out to get you, we are just trying to help, and that can be very difficult when we can't actually see you and your horse in action

Yes, thanks, I just got defensive because someone said "we all know who the problem is here".

It is difficult when nobody can see the actual picture!

Thanks though.

 

[Carryonriding]

How is she with someone else leading her?

At my former livery yard a fellow livery had this trouble with her horse. It would sometimes take her 1/2 hour to lead the horse a few metres. If I was walking my mare down to the yard, or was coming back from turning mine out, I would lead the mare for her as she never tried it with me. I would turn the horse to get it's hooves moving and then just lead it to the yard while saying 'walk on' in a firm tone of voice. The horse basically had the owner's number.

Re napping when ridden, my mare used to be very nappy on hacks and the main rule that I still have with her, is to never turn on the spot and go straight home again. I ride circular or lolly-pop shaped routes only. She's also tried to refuse to leave the yard etc... so I took her out a few times with an older, bombproof horse to get her confidence up. Soon she was able to hack in the lead past scary things and started to enjoy going out.

She was a bit better being lead all though she tried to nap a couple of times but then realised she couldn't with my instructor leading her and being ridden. Without being ridden she will constantly turn her nose and you have to be really on the ball to nip it in the bud before she flees off. You have to read her body language.

 

[skully]

Hi carryonriding, your horse sounds exactly like my stubborn little Connemara! You never realise how strong a horse is until they don't want come out of the field! Unfortunately the cure for this situation is a bit of healthy respect. Your horse doesn't see you as a trustworthy and reliable leader so she is taking that place for you. This namely results in wanting to do exactly the opposite of what you need her to do!

Please just bear with me while I tell my story. I got my connie in June and we were fine for about three months until September when his behaviour really started going downhill. I thought we'd 'bonded' so I let him get away with more and more, unknowingly rewarding him for bad behaviour that I thought he was doing because he loved me etc etc. Long story short I didn't work up the courage to set him straight for about six weeks and it annoyed the hell out of everyone else on my yard having to lead my horse up and down the yard for me because he simply wouldn't move. Wouldn't come out of the field, onto the yard, into the school, back into the field - you name it, he didn't want to do it! My yard owner kept saying that I just needed to whack him once and he'd respect me for it, and I was thinking 'no, that's cruel, I can't do it to him'. One day I got so annoyed that he earned himself a slap with the end of the leadrope and what do you know, he walked straight out of that field and onto the yard. Easy peasy. Had a little tantrum every day for about a week coming out of the field, and now we're fine. He follows me wherever I go even off the leadrope while I'm out in the field. We have a lovely understanding that he does as I want him to and in return he gets cuddles, treats and lovely long hacks. If he doesn't do as I ask him then he's not going to get those things!

The trick is to restore balance, and while it isn't easy, if you win once you can win again and again and again. Show her she's simply not allowed to get away with that behaviour anymore and she'll soon get the message. If you're coming out of or going into the field I find the lead rope is our greatest tool. No whips to juggle along with everything else, just place your right hand underneath her head and your left hand about halfway down. If she plants and refuses to walk begin to flick it behind you. It should be hitting her flank gently. If she still refuses to move apply it harder, then harder again - Parelli pressure trick! If you end up whacking her with it then that's her choice, isn't it? The key is always stay by her shoulder. If she moves backwards that's great, at least it's movement. Never get in front of her or you lose your power with the lead rope. Remember that horses move each other from behind so you're using your leadrope to imitate a nip from one of her fieldmates to her flank or quarters. Standing by her shoulder directs her where you want her to go. Suddenly you're providing the push to go forward and the steering - just like when you're riding. Horses confront each other from the front, so you're effectively turning it into a standoff when you try to tug her around. And as the owner of a very stubborn Connemara I can assure you that a standoff is never the right way to go!

You can use your voice too - firm but not angry, tell her what you want her to do and what's going to happen if she doesn't. I always find it's really helpful to talk to my gelding while handling him because it calms us both and reminds me of what I am trying to achieve. Use the headcollar too but obviously be careful not to turn it into a tug of war. Of course this technique works with a bridle and long whip too, but I'd recommend trying it without tack first just to get the hang of it.

If she still refuses to go in the direction you want her to, use your shoulder to push into her neck and turn her head with the halter, and force her to turn in a circle. Once you get that movement keep it going for a few tight circles before heading off in the direction you want to go. If she still doesn't want to go over there, well off we go for another circle! I think the trick is to keep your cool and just treat it as a game. It's a challenge she's setting you. "You don't want to go into the field? Wonderful, we get to improve our groundwork! Oh, you don't want to walk around in circles? Then we'll go the way I want, thank you very much".

The most important thing for you at the moment is to establish yourself as that strong, confident leader that she needs. Don't worry about harming her with a few flicks of the leadrope, and certainly don't worry about hurting her feelings! What is it she's been doing to you?! The horse should always get as good as it gives, and if that's her attitude towards you then simply repay it in kind. I know it's really easy to get upset with yourself and your horse, I did it a lot of times and it just makes the situation worse. Keep a positive attitude that will reflect onto your horse. Laugh everything off! It works a treat and they'll be much more willing to comply if you show them that you're not going to get angry and frustrated at the first sign of disobedience. I suppose the best thing to remember is never to give up. Sure, it might have taken an hour to get her into that field by yourself, but tomorrow it'll be fifty minutes, forty minutes, thirty minutes, until you have her following you around like a big dog.

I really hope I've helped, it's nice to meet someone else who's had the same problem as me. I thought it was just my gelding who decided leadrope meant stand still! If you have any more questions I'd be happy to help, please keep me updated on how it goes.

Stay strong and keep trying!

Skully

 

[Carryonriding]

Hi carryonriding, your horse sounds exactly like my stubborn little Connemara! You never realise how strong a horse is until they don't want come out of the field! Unfortunately the cure for this situation is a bit of healthy respect. Your horse doesn't see you as a trustworthy and reliable leader so she is taking that place for you. This namely results in wanting to do exactly the opposite of what you need her to do!

Please just bear with me while I tell my story. I got my connie in June and we were fine for about three months until September when his behaviour really started going downhill. I thought we'd 'bonded' so I let him get away with more and more, unknowingly rewarding him for bad behaviour that I thought he was doing because he loved me etc etc. Long story short I didn't work up the courage to set him straight for about six weeks and it annoyed the hell out of everyone else on my yard having to lead my horse up and down the yard for me because he simply wouldn't move. Wouldn't come out of the field, onto the yard, into the school, back into the field - you name it, he didn't want to do it! My yard owner kept saying that I just needed to whack him once and he'd respect me for it, and I was thinking 'no, that's cruel, I can't do it to him'. One day I got so annoyed that he earned himself a slap with the end of the leadrope and what do you know, he walked straight out of that field and onto the yard. Easy peasy. Had a little tantrum every day for about a week coming out of the field, and now we're fine. He follows me wherever I go even off the leadrope while I'm out in the field. We have a lovely understanding that he does as I want him to and in return he gets cuddles, treats and lovely long hacks. If he doesn't do as I ask him then he's not going to get those things!

The trick is to restore balance, and while it isn't easy, if you win once you can win again and again and again. Show her she's simply not allowed to get away with that behaviour anymore and she'll soon get the message. If you're coming out of or going into the field I find the lead rope is our greatest tool. No whips to juggle along with everything else, just place your right hand underneath her head and your left hand about halfway down. If she plants and refuses to walk begin to flick it behind you. It should be hitting her flank gently. If she still refuses to move apply it harder, then harder again - Parelli pressure trick! If you end up whacking her with it then that's her choice, isn't it? The key is always stay by her shoulder. If she moves backwards that's great, at least it's movement. Never get in front of her or you lose your power with the lead rope. Remember that horses move each other from behind so you're using your leadrope to imitate a nip from one of her fieldmates to her flank or quarters. Standing by her shoulder directs her where you want her to go. Suddenly you're providing the push to go forward and the steering - just like when you're riding. Horses confront each other from the front, so you're effectively turning it into a standoff when you try to tug her around. And as the owner of a very stubborn Connemara I can assure you that a standoff is never the right way to go!

You can use your voice too - firm but not angry, tell her what you want her to do and what's going to happen if she doesn't. I always find it's really helpful to talk to my gelding while handling him because it calms us both and reminds me of what I am trying to achieve. Use the headcollar too but obviously be careful not to turn it into a tug of war. Of course this technique works with a bridle and long whip too, but I'd recommend trying it without tack first just to get the hang of it.

If she still refuses to go in the direction you want her to, use your shoulder to push into her neck and turn her head with the halter, and force her to turn in a circle. Once you get that movement keep it going for a few tight circles before heading off in the direction you want to go. If she still doesn't want to go over there, well off we go for another circle! I think the trick is to keep your cool and just treat it as a game. It's a challenge she's setting you. "You don't want to go into the field? Wonderful, we get to improve our groundwork! Oh, you don't want to walk around in circles? Then we'll go the way I want, thank you very much".

The most important thing for you at the moment is to establish yourself as that strong, confident leader that she needs. Don't worry about harming her with a few flicks of the leadrope, and certainly don't worry about hurting her feelings! What is it she's been doing to you?! The horse should always get as good as it gives, and if that's her attitude towards you then simply repay it in kind. I know it's really easy to get upset with yourself and your horse, I did it a lot of times and it just makes the situation worse. Keep a positive attitude that will reflect onto your horse. Laugh everything off! It works a treat and they'll be much more willing to comply if you show them that you're not going to get angry and frustrated at the first sign of disobedience. I suppose the best thing to remember is never to give up. Sure, it might have taken an hour to get her into that field by yourself, but tomorrow it'll be fifty minutes, forty minutes, thirty minutes, until you have her following you around like a big dog.

I really hope I've helped, it's nice to meet someone else who's had the same problem as me. I thought it was just my gelding who decided leadrope meant stand still! If you have any more questions I'd be happy to help, please keep me updated on how it goes.

Stay strong and keep trying!

Skully

Wow, thank you for your motivational story it is definitely another challenge she has set me after she has been corrected for kicking me when I pick her feet out etc or anything to do with her hinds. She now willingly picks them up and moves her hinds when I slightly touch her. All from weeks of intense groundwork and some parelli stuff which I found useful.

Now she is saying 'so you want to ride? Well how much do you want to ride?' lol

We will get there and our relationship will be better
Thanks again.

 

[9tails]

Having a strop because someone's told you you're doing it wrong won't help your horse.

You have issues with your mare that you don't know how to deal with. What you've tried doesn't work. You've been given alternative methods that more experienced handlers know will work but you don't like them, so returned to what you know doesn't work because you don't want to upset your horse. Making her do as she's damn well told will do her far more good in the long run than pansy about with her and pandering to her. I can pretty much guarantee that most who've replied here would have her walking up sensibly within ten minutes.

Ten seconds.

 

[Kallibear]

Now she is saying 'so you want to ride? Well how much do you want to ride?' lol

We will get there and our relationship will be better .

No, what's she's saying is 'So you want to ride? Well p*$# off cos I don't'

You have much lower expectations of behaviour standards if you feel her dragging jer in from the field step stop step is progress. I'm afraid I wouldn't have tolerated that for a second but I also know she'd never have even tried it, or at least more than once.

You may well get there in the end, in the long distant future but unless you toughen up and put her in her place, it's going to be a long drawn out battle.


P.s 9tails. Compromise on 30secs, to allow time for me fumbling and dropping the schooling whip at least once.

 

[Carryonriding]

No, what's she's saying is 'So you want to ride? Well p*$# off cos I don't'

You have much lower expectations of behaviour standards if you feel her dragging jer in from the field step stop step is progress. I'm afraid I wouldn't have tolerated that for a second but I also know she'd never have even tried it, or at least more than once.

You may well get there in the end, in the long distant future but unless you toughen up and put her in her place, it's going to be a long drawn out battle.


P.s 9tails. Compromise on 30secs, to allow time for me fumbling and dropping the schooling whip at least once.

Explain to me what you would have done step by step to get her walking up politely and calmly in 30 seconds?

I'm more of a person that likes to take the longer way round to achieve a more harmonious relationship built on leadership. Don't get me wrong I'll lose my rag when she's out of line and use my firm voice and a firm smack on the bum!

It would actually be helpful for me if you explain in detail what you would do?

 

[Moomin1]

You became an 'emotional wreck' because you confused her?!?! Oh dear god. I think most of us can see where the problem lies now.

Seriously, get a grip. She's 600kg of solid horse flesh who could flatten you in a second yet you got all upset because you hurt her feelings?!

It's ridiculous that she won't even lead out the field and is entirely unacceptable. It won't be long before her behaviour deteriorates.

Blimey give the girl a break!

 

[Leo Walker]

My 3 yr old cob is a tank and his preferred evasion of choice is planting or baby steps at low speed. I'm sorry to say he gets a wallop round his butt with the leadrope and is sent round me on a small circle, at which point he usually goes forward politely. He very, very, very rarely does it no, but I'm mean and just dont tolerate it. I work hard to pay for him and its not to much to expect him to walk nicely at the end of the leadrope

 

[skully]

My 3 yr old cob is a tank and his preferred evasion of choice is planting or baby steps at low speed. I'm sorry to say he gets a wallop round his butt with the leadrope and is sent round me on a small circle, at which point he usually goes forward politely. He very, very, very rarely does it no, but I'm mean and just dont tolerate it. I work hard to pay for him and its not to much to expect him to walk nicely at the end of the leadrope

This is so perfect! Mine is just like this

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Yes, the mini lunging technique does work. When my grey went through her rearing instead of walking stage as a yearling, it soon got her moving forward and she quickly gave up on the rearing.

 

[applecart14]

Hi all.... Today I tried all of your advice... Backing her up seemed to confuse her and I became an emotional wreck! !

What??? So what if it confuses her - this is what its meant to do. And why does it make you an emotional wreck?? Surely you can make your horse walk backwards without getting worried?? They can reverse backwards in the wild without tripping over/somersaulting or whatever else you think she will do!!

My horse used to respond really well to walking backwards past things (a bunch of flowers blowing in the wind or a bit of mud from a car tyre on a verge) until he started backing up into the actual verge! The verge had bushes with prickly branches and he came off worse. He soon worked it out for himself that it was better to calmly walk past something rather than getting jabs in the bottom from the branches for his troubles. Like children sometimes we have to stop mollycoddling them and let them make decisions for themselves and suffer the consequences (as in my horses case) when they make the wrong decisions so long as they are not harmed badly by the process!

Sounds like your horse is taking the mickey like mine did with me. In my horses case it was because he was scared of something, if I had of pampered him and given him loads of "its okay, good boy" talk it would have made him more convinced there was something to worry about. By taking direct action and using 'reverse phycholgy' it made all the difference.

 

[chestnut cob]

Having read all of this thread, I would say the OP has a horse which is quite simply taking the pi££ out of her. I do agree you need to have a harmonious relationship with your horse, but in this case the horse is making all the decisions and it will end in tears. I would actually suggest the OP gets some groundwork lessons from a pro. It is no different to having riding lessons. Find your local Kelly Marks RA and arrange for them to come out to help you. IME it costs about the same as a lesson with a good RI. I used an RA in the past because I had a horse who was vile to lead and load. She came out, told me that yes the horse was rude and bargy but I as the handler wasn't helping either. Then she worked with me on it and gave me lots of exercises to do by myself. You need a no-nonsense RA, not a fluffy bunny one. Someone who will be honest and tell you how it is.

RE the backing up thing. That's what the RA spent half the session doing with my horse. If it won't go fowards, send it backwards. Then give it the chance to come forwards again, and if the answer is still no, backwards again. Or in tiny circles. Plus, I'd be leading the horse in a Dually or a chifney...

 

[dibbin]

Jazz went through a phase of doing this if I tried to bring him in from the field on his own - I once stood out for 20 mins in the pouring rain because he'd reversed past the field gate and wouldn't move forward at all so I couldn't even turn him back out!

I now take a schooling whip out with me so that I can give him a tap if he thinks about stopping, and he's been as good as gold.

 

[charlie76]

Can you not get your instructor to walk with you and give her a crack up the backside with a lunge whip? Not NEC hit her but send her forward, if you do this a few times and growl at her she will soon learn not to stop, you can then get yourself a long schooling whip and do the same,'step back and give her a swift reminder who's boss!

 

[chestnut cob]

Can you not get your instructor to walk with you and give her a crack up the backside with a lunge whip? Not NEC hit her but send her forward, if you do this a few times and growl at her she will soon learn not to stop, you can then get yourself a long schooling whip and do the same,'step back and give her a swift reminder who's boss!

I was going to suggest this, or if the OP is nervous about being at the front then get two experienced people. One holding onto the leadrope at the front, the other behind and give her a wallop with the lunge whip.

 

[Kallibear]

Explain to me what you would have done step by step to get her walking up politely and calmly in 30 seconds?

I'm more of a person that likes to take the longer way round to achieve a more harmonious relationship built on leadership. Don't gent me wrong I'll lose my rag when she's out of line and use my firm voice and a firm smack on the bum!

It would actually be helpful for me if you explain in detail what you would do?

Sorry it's taken so long to reply. This is the first 5min I've had to write a proper reply.

I can pretty much guarantee I'd have her walking up beside me within a minute, albeit probably sulking in a huff.

I'd actually use a 12ft rope rather than a stick. They're heavy with a thong at the end and sting like buggery when you're hit with it.

I wouldn't be messing around tugging on the rope over and over again. She'd be asked nicely once, told firmly once then forced. A step to the side and a hard smack round the bum with the end of the rope should do the trick. And MEAN it.

I'd be very suprised if that doesn't make her shoot forwards but if not, she'd be forced to move her feet in any direction and I wouldn't be asking nicely either. I'd force her to dance round me (backwards or round in a circle). If she doesn't move fast enough she'll get a smack with the rope (but given the opportunity to avoid it if she is moving. I don't want to be cruel and unfair). I'm not there to make friends at this point. She's to do as she's damn well told and hopefully be a little shell shocked. She need to learn that humans can and do bite and kick (not nessesarily literally or even physically) if she's rude and obnoxious. She'll then be given a second to pause then calmly asked to walk on again. Much praise when she does, more dancing if she doesn't.

This naughtiness isn't really about exactly what punishment you give out, it's the intention behind it. I'd want her to breifly think I might just double barrel and bite her severely if she doesn't do as she's told. If she's a more sensitive horse I could do that by just raising my voice and body language, no need to even touch her. Right now she's decided that she can entirely ignore your punishment (rope tugging) because it's just an annoyance and, to be frankly honest, she couldn't care less if you're pi$$ed off with her or not.

Then after the initial show down I'd be spending a while working on her repect by moving her feet (I.e basic groundwork) and generally expecting exemplary manners at all times.

I should point out that my little cob started trying this with his sharer. He then made the mistake of trying it once with me and was very sorry afterwards. He stopped it with the share r as soon as she smacked his bum and told hkm to stop his nonsense.

 

[dianchi]

OP how are you getting on???