Horse potentially much older than what I thought I bought

[splashgirl45]

my friend bought a horse who was advertised as 16 as she needed a confidence giver. once she had bought her she traced her history and she turned out to be 18, she rode her till she was 29 and she was a really good horse for her. if you want to compete at a high level her age may be a problem but if you are intending to do riding club level and she is what you want you could have a good few years of riding...you could buy a 6 year old and it could go lame , it depends how your luck goes...

 

[stormox]

Agreed the horse might suit. But at the end of the day a nice 16 year old is worth about half of what a similar 6 year old is worth.

 

[ester]

Is a partial refund a possibility OP?

 

[1nd1c03]

I’m currently planning to pursue the vets who did my vetting for the cost of vetting (which isn’t worth the paper it’s written on) and potentially try and get some of the cost of the horse back too on the basis that I wouldn’t have bought her if I’d known!

Does anyone have experience with doing similar?

 

[Antw23uk]

Seller has offered to have the horse back, with a refund, and / or gift me another. But I am already attached to my mare and I’m too soft! Her age is something I will get over with time, however I feel Obligated to raise it with the vets.

I think you are doing the right thing. I wouldnt let this go but at the same time if mare ticks all the boxes then I wouldnt let her go either but then Im a happy hacker/ RC allrounder type so your mare would be fit for my purpose. Depends what you wanted to do with her!
I must say my gelding is 12 now and that is far from old but he just gets better and better (and cheekier) with age so I cant wait to see where we are and what we are doing in a few more years. Continuing to take on the world no doubt

 

[Northern]

Sorry to hear this OP, I hope if you like the horse perhaps you could arrange a refund in line with what her true age value is? This happens incredibly often, and whilst teeth aren't always a reliable indicator, I really think anyone looking to buy a horse should educate themselves of the basic signs of aging in the mouth. These situations make it difficult to trust professionals who miss/don't look for thing like this. Looking in the mouth is pretty simple during an examination

I have seen many instances of this, often horses 10 - 20 years older than bought as (the most recent, a welsh sold as a 4 year old - turned out to be 24!!). Luckily at least in Australia, microchips are becoming more common and many horses are visibly branded (especially the TB industry), and there are online stud books you can confirm age by.

I hope you can find a resolution you are happy with

 

[southerncomfort]

It's nice that you want to keep the horse, I wonder if you could negotiate a partial refund with the seller as presumably a horse in their mid-teens will be worth a bit less than a youngster especially if she's still pretty green.

I would definitely take it up with the vetting vets. We had exactly the same thing when I had my first pony. She was sold to us as a 7 year old but turned out to be a just-backed 3 year old. My parents threatened the vet practice with legal action as they would never have knowingly bought such a young horse, and they refunded the cost of the vetting plus (I *think*) around £100 compensation.

 

[1nd1c03]

Sorry to hear this OP, I hope if you like the horse perhaps you could arrange a refund in line with what her true age value is? This happens incredibly often, and whilst teeth aren't always a reliable indicator, I really think anyone looking to buy a horse should educate themselves of the basic signs of aging in the mouth. These situations make it difficult to trust professionals who miss/don't look for thing like this. Looking in the mouth is pretty simple during an examination

I have seen many instances of this, often horses 10 - 20 years older than bought as (the most recent, a welsh sold as a 4 year old - turned out to be 24!!). Luckily at least in Australia, microchips are becoming more common and many horses are visibly branded (especially the TB industry), and there are online stud books you can confirm age by.

I hope you can find a resolution you are happy with

Yes, whilst talking to my dentist the other day he says it happens so often. Often if the horse is a couple of years out he doesn’t mention it to avoid upset and it’s not a totally accurate way of determining age.

I feel like such a fool but it happens. I know enough about teeth to know an adult set when I see them, one horse I went to see that was apparently 6 still had some very babyish teeth for example (it transpired it was 3). Unfortunately I haven’t been able tot Wally look at her teeth until she was sedated and with a gag on. Even if I had been able to have a look and thought she was much older if I’d had two vets and a dentist telling me differently I would have gone with their professional opinion.

Sadly I believed myself to be covered having had a 5 stage vetting, but it appears that’s not the case!

 

[Red-1]

Goodness me, I would show those photos to the vet who did the vetting and at least get the vetting fee back! If you like the mare I would keep her if she is otherwise sound. If the dealer would give you say 20% off then that would be a bonus.

I would think 13 yrs plus, but under 18.

 

[Rollin]

My twopence worth - I absolutely LOVE older horses, you bypass all the genetic stuff that finishes then off young and provided they are reasonably sound you will have a healthy functioning horse for years to come that is already trained and sensible and will try not to kill you! The absolute BEST horse I've ever had I bought 4 years ago at the age of 19 (her not me) who has been fighting fit and twice the horse I need for the whole time I've had her!

Can definitely understand you are peeved BUT you do have a healthy working horse that you are attached to, many owners of younger horses definitely do not have that

Purchased my first horse from a riding school. When I asked how old he was the vendor said "Err. pause, 15" If we was indeed just 15, possibly much older he lived to be 36 years of age, worked until 6 months before pts and never gave me a vet bill. He could have been nearer 40 years of age. I loved him to bits and have a passion for old horses.

 

[holeymoley]

Her teeth aren't too dis-similar to my boy who has just turned 16. They are definitely teenage years teeth.

My situation was the opposite of yours. I bought a 6 year old who was only 3 at the most. He still had little baby teeth and new nothing other than to stand at the back of his stable and to take off if anyone got on him and took up a contact. He wouldn't even let you pick up his hooves. I was young and naive at the time and was just thrilled to be getting my own pony. We definitely had some serious ups and downs(more downs!) to begin with but he taught me everything I know and I couldn't wish for a better horse. Hopefully he will teach my own 2 children to ride.

ETA- my friend at the time fell in love with a riding school mare and she bought her. She must've been in her late twenties at the youngest and she gave her a good few years of enjoyment. She was told she was 15 and sold to her for £2500.00 which back then was a decent amount for a good all rounder. I think it happens all over the country. This woman unfortunately took advantage at how much my friend had fallen in love with this horse.

 

[Orangehorse]

OP, I can understand exactly how you feel. If you want to keep the horse then you should get a substantial refund, as there is a big difference in price between a 6 year old and teenage horse. Now she might turn out to be an absolute star and goes on for years, or maybe in two or three years time starts to get a few niggles. We all know that our 6 year old can turn out to be unsound and have problems too so if she suits you then keep and enjoy.

Telling the age of horses is so hard. I have heard time and time again of vets getting it wrong. One person sold a horse and they knew exactly how old it was, having had its TB passport showing its date of birth (before the new passports came in) It was sold without passport and a vet judged it to be years younger than it really was …………………………… Then I was selling a horse I had bought and had vetted and this same vet - above - vetted my horse as a lot older than I had been told when I bought it!

 

[Annagain]

I'm another who thinks pursuing the vet but keeping the horse is a good way to go. I have two 22 year olds (one mine and one share ) My share horse is going the best he ever has - we did our first elementary last year and are going from strength to strength. He just show jumped before I started sharing him so he's done nearly all his dressage from the age of 16 onwards and his first BE event at 18 so you can definitely put your stamp on your horse. We still jump too just not as big as he did before because I'm a wimp. We're going to make our veteran showing debut this weekend.

My horse has had various issues since he was 11-12 but they're no worse now than they were then and his biggest problem is his brain (or lack of it ). Before I had him (at 9) all he did was hunt so he finds suddenly being on his own after warming up with other horses very stressful. He's been doing far better over the last 3 or 4 years than he was though and can actually get through a dressage test without exploding now. We can also get round a fun ride without having to chase down every horse in front of him - as long as he has his mates around him!

You should still have another 10 years with this mare so if you like her I'd stick with her, crack on and have some fun.

 

[1nd1c03]

I agree that her age doesn’t stop her from having lots of potential or indeed having anything wrong with her for the foreseeable future. I guess my reservation on that front is that she was in terrible condition when she came over from Ireland in Feb, and while she looks fantastic now I worry about the effect that would have had on her health - but I guess you could say that no matter what age she was. here’s some before / after pictures

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/risyTWf

you can see why everyone thought she was much younger!

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/o9fzv2G

So I’ve spent a lot of love, money and time already getting to this point and I would worry about her falling into the wrong hands again should I send her back, at the end of the day it isn’t her fault.

I’ve started proceedings with the vets as I would very much like some compensation.

 

[be positive]

I actually think she looks like an older horse that has fallen on hard times rather than a youngster and am really surprised that a vet or dealer would think she looked young, without even looking in her mouth if I saw those first photos I would instinctively think "poor old girl" she is looking so much better now and has a very kind expression she must appreciate the tlc you are giving her.

 

[Red-1]

I actually think she looks like an older horse that has fallen on hard times rather than a youngster and am really surprised that a vet or dealer would think she looked young, without even looking in her mouth if I saw those first photos I would instinctively think "poor old girl" she is looking so much better now and has a very kind expression she must appreciate the tlc you are giving her.

I agree with this. In the Feb photos I would have aged her as even older than I said from her teeth alone!

If, however, you are having fun and she is sound and doing what you need, then I would keep her and thank my lucky stars that I found her. So many people post on here aout horses they bought and then find are naughty.

 

[Northern]

I agree that her age doesn’t stop her from having lots of potential or indeed having anything wrong with her for the foreseeable future. I guess my reservation on that front is that she was in terrible condition when she came over from Ireland in Feb, and while she looks fantastic now I worry about the effect that would have had on her health - but I guess you could say that no matter what age she was. here’s some before / after pictures

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/risyTWf

you can see why everyone thought she was much younger!

https://m.imgur.com/gallery/o9fzv2G

So I’ve spent a lot of love, money and time already getting to this point and I would worry about her falling into the wrong hands again should I send her back, at the end of the day it isn’t her fault.

I’ve started proceedings with the vets as I would very much like some compensation.

She looks fantastic and such a kind face! Great job Good luck with the proceedings, I hope you can work out an agreement.

 

[eggs]

I agree that in the Feb photo she does look like an older horse in very poor condition.

She looks absolutely lovely in the later photo and you have done a fabulous job with her. The deep hollows above her eyes do make her look like an older horse although I do understand that being in poor condition - which she very obviously was in February - can cause them to deepen.

FWIW I think you are doing the right thing in keeping this mare and pursuing the vet who did the vetting and also in trying to get some money back from the original sale price.

 

[ycbm]

On the plus side, if she's that age and passed a five stage as a six year old she's a darned sound horse

 

[HollyWoozle]

OP, I think you are absolutely right to take this up with the vets. It sounds like you've found a lovely match with the mare which is great, but mistakes have been made here which should be pointed out. I know nothing about ageing a horse from their teeth but I would definitely have guessed the mare as being in her teens from the photos. Even without taking the teeth into consideration, I find it odd that the seller and the vets didn't question her age from the start!

Good luck with it and I hope you have many happy years to come with your new friend.

 

[wingedhorse]

On the plus side, if she's that age and passed a five stage as a six year old she's a darned sound horse

Assuming the vet was ignorant / lazy on the teeth but did do the soundness check properly.

As an aside, I bought an 11 year old last year, and was there for the vetting. He had UK bred passport, and competing, and was registered with UK vet practice. I don't think vet specifically checked age from teeth. He did look and not find micro chip. But there is no doubt re age here, and history is known, but not sure vet knew that. Or he could have looked briefly when looking in mouth and I missed it.

 

[zaminda]

I think your problem here is with the seller not the vet. I have never come across a vet going over the teeth thoroughly unless specifically asked i.e. you wanted them to rasp teeth provided horse had passed. He would have checked it against the passport and potentially scanned the micro chip but I would have thought that would be all. If the chip matches and the passport is inaccurate contact the passport issuer or the trading standards in Ireland I would say. I would be very unhappy about buying a horse that much older although I tend to buy horses registered with a breed society so less of an issue for me.

 

[stormox]

I actually think the seller (who you say brings horses on)? Is as much to blame as the vet. If she was at all knowledgeable she would have noticed the dipped back and older horses teeth the first time she tacked it up! I would definately go after her for a bit of a refund.

 

[alainax]

The only issue you may have perusing the seller is they have already offered a full refund upon return of horse / “goods”.

Like taking a broken telly back to curry’s. They offer full refund when you bring it back.

You can always ask though.

 

[Flyermc]

Yes, whilst talking to my dentist the other day he says it happens so often. Often if the horse is a couple of years out he doesn’t mention it to avoid upset and it’s not a totally accurate way of determining age.

I feel like such a fool but it happens. I know enough about teeth to know an adult set when I see them, one horse I went to see that was apparently 6 still had some very babyish teeth for example (it transpired it was 3). Unfortunately I haven’t been able tot Wally look at her teeth until she was sedated and with a gag on. Even if I had been able to have a look and thought she was much older if I’d had two vets and a dentist telling me differently I would have gone with their professional opinion.

Sadly I believed myself to be covered having had a 5 stage vetting, but it appears that’s not the case!

Was your horse OK to have its teeth checked without sedation?

is horse aging, looking at teeth in detail, part of a 5 stage vetting?

As for the seller, they have already offered to take the horse back, for a refund or an exchange.

 

[tda]

On the plus side, if she's that age and passed a five stage as a six year old she's a darned sound horse

Yes, definitely 😁

 

[Caracarrie]

I saw 2 examples of sold age and actual age on my old yard. I was giving some private lessons to a young teenage girl on her first pony who was bought as a 7 year old. I don't think they had him vetted. He was very green and didn't strike me as a 7 year old, so I looked at his teeth one day and it was obvious he wasn't even 4. I advised them to treat him as a baby and do things much more steadily with him (teenaged girls with first ponies tend be like a bull at a gate!) and luckily everythying worked out just fine, and she did very well with him in the show ring. The other case was again, a first pony with a rider of similar age, but a bit more experience. Pony was bought as 9 years old, the vet and very experienced dentist agreed that was correct. They decided to get her history via the freezemark - and the previous owner was a bit shocked to say that the pony was actually 27. They decided to make some allowances for the pony's actual age but she was fit and healthy so it wasn't really a problem and the girl learned alot with her then retired her and bought something a bit bigger (and younger!) Another dentist looked at the pony a while later and said the teeth showed signs of having been bishoped and she had certainly come through the sales ring.
Not trying to making sweeping statements, but I know from personal experience that a very large number of horses that come over from Ireland have brand new passports issued the day before they were loaded on the ferry, have no traceable background and the majority bring either strangles or a respiratory infection with them.

 

[sywell]

If a passport was not issued in the year of birth it will have been signed out by the passport issuer who is required to check if there has been a passport issued before for the horse. I have had a number of occasion when an older vet vetting a horses argued it was not the age stated in the passport as I delivered the foal I have had little confidence in ageing by teeth.

 

[1nd1c03]

Thank you to everyone who replied to me on this thread and offered advice!

To provide a bit of an update, in case anyone has a similar situation in the future, after a lot of back and forth between me, the dealer and the vets involved I have managed to get a partial refund for my mare to reflect her true value given her age. It eventually had to go to small claims court as the dealer got quite nasty despite previously agreeing a partial refund.

I also received an apology from the vets solicitor regarding their oversight and behaviour.

Having done some digging I’ve managed to find her original passport and speak to the lady who owned her in Ireland who actually never received any money for her. She also claimed that other horses the dealer had were much older than advertised but I don’t trust a word anyone says anymore!

Sadly I think the dealer isn’t as white as she first appears due to her behaviour over the last few months - she didn’t seem overly surprised or angry when this all came to light and has since showed a pretty good knowledge of consumer law and the small claims process!

If anyone is looking to purchase a horse from a Marlborough, Wiltshire dealer with the initials KF proceed with caution.

 

[Cortez]

Thank you to everyone who replied to me on this thread and offered advice!

To provide a bit of an update, in case anyone has a similar situation in the future, after a lot of back and forth between me, the dealer and the vets involved I have managed to get a partial refund for my mare to reflect her true value given her age. It eventually had to go to small claims court as the dealer got quite nasty despite previously agreeing a partial refund.

I also received an apology from the vets solicitor regarding their oversight and behaviour.

Having done some digging I’ve managed to find her original passport and speak to the lady who owned her in Ireland who actually never received any money for her. She also claimed that other horses the dealer had were much older than advertised but I don’t trust a word anyone says anymore!

Sadly I think the dealer isn’t as white as she first appears due to her behaviour over the last few months - she didn’t seem overly surprised or angry when this all came to light and has since showed a pretty good knowledge of consumer law and the small claims process!

If anyone is looking to purchase a horse from a Marlborough, Wiltshire dealer with the initials KF proceed with caution.

That's a good update. Out of interest, did the lady who originally owned the mare say how old she actually was?